MoS
How have you made out on this?
What product have you purchased?
We are waiting...
Thanks, Jim
How have you made out on this?
What product have you purchased?
We are waiting...
Thanks, Jim
Whoa! Coincidence? FPC-1 works!
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Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Based on the rigor of the SwRI RP-503 report, I absolutely believe in the product. I absolutely believe it will improve fuel economy by less than 2% and will provide savings that just pay for the product, if you buy it in bulk.
I thought you said "Snake oil and mouse milk."
It is snake oil and mouse milk in the sense that for an individual user, the cost of the treatment is more than the increased mileage obtained.
In my neck of the woods, regular is currently going for $3.49 a gallon. A 2% increase in mileage would be the equivalent of a 7 cents per gallon discount. If you buy the 6 x 8 oz package for $170.00 you can treat 1920 gallons of fuel at 8.8 cents a gallon. To get below 7 cents a gallon for the treatment, you have to buy 4 x 1 gal purchase for $1000.0, which will treat 20,000 gallons of fuel at 5 cents a gallon. In a vehicle that gets 30 MPG, those 20,000 gallons will give you 600,000 miles of travel at a savings of $400.
I believe I read somewhere that FPC recommends that you buy no more FPC-1 than you can use in 2 months time. I drive about 3,000 miles a month in a vehicle that averages 30 MPG. So, I would only burn 200 gallons in 2 months. Presuming that they may be a little conservative in the shelf life of their product, I would buy the 12 x 1 oz box which would let me treat 480 gallons of gasoline. The resulting cost would be 9.375 cents per gallon and I would have spent more on the FPC-1 than I got back in fuel savings.
So, rather than characterizing it as snake oil and mouse milk, I should have said the payback was less than the cost.
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Based on the rigor of the SwRI RP-503 report, I absolutely believe in the product. I absolutely believe it will improve fuel economy by less than 2% and will provide savings that just pay for the product, if you buy it in bulk.
I thought you said "Snake oil and mouse milk."
It is snake oil and mouse milk in the sense that for an individual user, the cost of the treatment is more than the increased mileage obtained.
In my neck of the woods, regular is currently going for $3.49 a gallon. A 2% increase in mileage would be the equivalent of a 7 cents per gallon discount. If you buy the 6 x 8 oz package for $170.00 you can treat 1920 gallons of fuel at 8.8 cents a gallon. To get below 7 cents a gallon for the treatment, you have to buy 4 x 1 gal purchase for $1000.0, which will treat 20,000 gallons of fuel at 5 cents a gallon. In a vehicle that gets 30 MPG, those 20,000 gallons will give you 600,000 miles of travel at a savings of $400.
I believe I read somewhere that FPC recommends that you buy no more FPC-1 than you can use in 2 months time. I drive about 3,000 miles a month in a vehicle that averages 30 MPG. So, I would only burn 200 gallons in 2 months. Presuming that they may be a little conservative in the shelf life of their product, I would buy the 12 x 1 oz box which would let me treat 480 gallons of gasoline. The resulting cost would be 9.375 cents per gallon and I would have spent more on the FPC-1 than I got back in fuel savings.
So, rather than characterizing it as snake oil and mouse milk, I should have said the payback was less than the cost.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Why is this thread in oil additive section?
It was there from 2005. I just recently moved it here.
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
MoS
How have you made out on this?
What product have you purchased?
We are waiting...
Thanks, Jim
I've had a great experience so far. However this is a mpg test which means nothing. I'm not equipped to do a carbon mass balance or a specific fuel consumption.
Edit: Product used FPC - 0.5
(the $24 box)
My 1995 Mercury Grand Marquis baseline was
253, 260, 254 miles per tank
Treated with FPC
311, 301, 304
I still have 9 bottles to use so I'll update this as I go. Again, this is just a MPG test I'm not calculating anything. I do believe I drive as crazy one day as I do the day before, but I can't say that with 100% certainty.
The mercury has never had an additive in it before FPC.
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Based on the rigor of the SwRI RP-503 report, I absolutely believe in the product. I absolutely believe it will improve fuel economy by less than 2% and will provide savings that just pay for the product, if you buy it in bulk.
I still don't understand how you think you'll only be saving 1.7%. The RP-503 you have to understand is a test to see if something is "snake oil and mouse milk", not a test to see the maximum improvement on an in service engine, but rather the minimum.
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Hi manofscience,
I started reading this thread with great interest, hoping that there really was some hard, independently produced data to support their claims. I was disappointed when I saw their "test library."
Based on the rigor of the SwRI RP-503 report, I absolutely believe in the product. I absolutely believe it will improve fuel economy by less than 2% and will provide savings that just pay for the product, if you buy it in bulk.
I still don't dismiss every other test on the website. Every test on their website has a copyright page, but I think that is just because it is on their website. I hold ESDC on the same field as SWRI. Also, the RP-503 looks like a hugely expensive test $US 240,000! I'd say that's weeds out the fakes like organic chemistry did back at my university hahaha.
Why is this thread in oil additive section?
It was there from 2005. I just recently moved it here.
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
MoS
How have you made out on this?
What product have you purchased?
We are waiting...
Thanks, Jim
I've had a great experience so far. However this is a mpg test which means nothing. I'm not equipped to do a carbon mass balance or a specific fuel consumption.
Edit: Product used FPC - 0.5
(the $24 box)
My 1995 Mercury Grand Marquis baseline was
253, 260, 254 miles per tank
Treated with FPC
311, 301, 304
I still have 9 bottles to use so I'll update this as I go. Again, this is just a MPG test I'm not calculating anything. I do believe I drive as crazy one day as I do the day before, but I can't say that with 100% certainty.
The mercury has never had an additive in it before FPC.
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Based on the rigor of the SwRI RP-503 report, I absolutely believe in the product. I absolutely believe it will improve fuel economy by less than 2% and will provide savings that just pay for the product, if you buy it in bulk.
I still don't understand how you think you'll only be saving 1.7%. The RP-503 you have to understand is a test to see if something is "snake oil and mouse milk", not a test to see the maximum improvement on an in service engine, but rather the minimum.
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Hi manofscience,
I started reading this thread with great interest, hoping that there really was some hard, independently produced data to support their claims. I was disappointed when I saw their "test library."
Based on the rigor of the SwRI RP-503 report, I absolutely believe in the product. I absolutely believe it will improve fuel economy by less than 2% and will provide savings that just pay for the product, if you buy it in bulk.
I still don't dismiss every other test on the website. Every test on their website has a copyright page, but I think that is just because it is on their website. I hold ESDC on the same field as SWRI. Also, the RP-503 looks like a hugely expensive test $US 240,000! I'd say that's weeds out the fakes like organic chemistry did back at my university hahaha.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: manofscience
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Why is this thread in oil additive section?
It was there from 2005. I just recently moved it here.
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
MoS
How have you made out on this?
What product have you purchased?
We are waiting...
Thanks, Jim
I've had a great experience so far. However this is a mpg test which means nothing. I'm not equipped to do a carbon mass balance or a specific fuel consumption.
Edit: Product used FPC - 0.5
(the $24 box)
My 1995 Mercury Grand Marquis baseline was
253, 260, 254 miles per tank
Treated with FPC
311, 301, 304
I still have 9 bottles to use so I'll update this as I go. Again, this is just a MPG test I'm not calculating anything. I do believe I drive as crazy one day as I do the day before, but I can't say that with 100% certainty.
Return to baseline (No FPC):
279, 262, 271
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Why is this thread in oil additive section?
It was there from 2005. I just recently moved it here.
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
MoS
How have you made out on this?
What product have you purchased?
We are waiting...
Thanks, Jim
I've had a great experience so far. However this is a mpg test which means nothing. I'm not equipped to do a carbon mass balance or a specific fuel consumption.
Edit: Product used FPC - 0.5
(the $24 box)
My 1995 Mercury Grand Marquis baseline was
253, 260, 254 miles per tank
Treated with FPC
311, 301, 304
I still have 9 bottles to use so I'll update this as I go. Again, this is just a MPG test I'm not calculating anything. I do believe I drive as crazy one day as I do the day before, but I can't say that with 100% certainty.
Return to baseline (No FPC):
279, 262, 271
MoS,
That was quick...
And your numbers do not give us all of the info.
More info, Please.
Jim
That was quick...
And your numbers do not give us all of the info.
More info, Please.
Jim
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
MoS,
That was quick...
And your numbers do not give us all of the info.
More info, Please.
Jim
There isn't much more info I can give you.
This is a basic comparison
I can't accurately tell you I drove the same everyday.
I didn't measure fuel density or exhaust gases.
Is there something specific that I'm just over looking that you'd like to know?
MoS,
That was quick...
And your numbers do not give us all of the info.
More info, Please.
Jim
There isn't much more info I can give you.
This is a basic comparison
I can't accurately tell you I drove the same everyday.
I didn't measure fuel density or exhaust gases.
Is there something specific that I'm just over looking that you'd like to know?
Generally, when I record my MPG figures. I record the date of fueling, miles traveled, gasoline consumed, and for you, the amount of FPC added.
These things may help to convince me.
Thanks, Jim
These things may help to convince me.
Thanks, Jim
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
Generally, when I record my MPG figures. I record the date of fueling, miles traveled, gasoline consumed, and for you, the amount of FPC added.
These things may help to convince me.
Thanks, Jim
Hmmm. I see. I didn't record date or MPG traveled per trip. I don't want to try to convince anyone but myself that the product works. I'm just posting my results and still hoping someone else can say if it worked for them too. Also, I use one 1oz bottle per fill-up.
Generally, when I record my MPG figures. I record the date of fueling, miles traveled, gasoline consumed, and for you, the amount of FPC added.
These things may help to convince me.
Thanks, Jim
Hmmm. I see. I didn't record date or MPG traveled per trip. I don't want to try to convince anyone but myself that the product works. I'm just posting my results and still hoping someone else can say if it worked for them too. Also, I use one 1oz bottle per fill-up.
MolaKule
Staff member
I recall this is an old and ancient picric acid formulation with two solvents.
It's main compnent is Trinitrophenol.
Testing through the years has yeilded mixed reviews.
It's main compnent is Trinitrophenol.
Testing through the years has yeilded mixed reviews.
Last edited:
The formula may have changed. They currently list the following on the MSDS (from http://www.fpc1.com/msds.php):
Trade Name........................CAS Number....Percent
Solvent Naphtha, Light Aromatic...64742-95-6....83-87
Normal Butanol....................71-36-3.......13-17
Picric Acid Technical.............88-89-1......0.5-1.2
Trade Name........................CAS Number....Percent
Solvent Naphtha, Light Aromatic...64742-95-6....83-87
Normal Butanol....................71-36-3.......13-17
Picric Acid Technical.............88-89-1......0.5-1.2
I wouldn't mind trying FPC, especially with diesel at $4.69 over here. Is there any chance this product can harm an engine? I know their website says zero chance of that but, hey, they are selling it so would be nice if someone else said it's safe.
I seem to remember that picric was used as an explosive was it not?
Picric acid is a vibration sensitive explosive in its crystalline form. It is rather safe when dissolved. And yes, it is trinitrophenol.
My earlier comment was related to the "main component" as being picric acid (trinitrophenol). The main component seems to be naptha. I guess the main "active ingredient" would be picric acid and the formula would not need to have changed. I was attempting to offer the current MSDS info. I apologize if I led some astray.
My earlier comment was related to the "main component" as being picric acid (trinitrophenol). The main component seems to be naptha. I guess the main "active ingredient" would be picric acid and the formula would not need to have changed. I was attempting to offer the current MSDS info. I apologize if I led some astray.
Just an update. I just saw they were published in ENERGY. I think someone was asking why they weren't published in an accredited journal? Well now they are and it's up on their page.
Cheers!
Cheers!
Originally Posted By: manofscience
Just an update. I just saw they were published in ENERGY. I think someone was asking why they weren't published in an accredited journal? Well now they are and it's up on their page.
Cheers!
Can you post a link please???
Just an update. I just saw they were published in ENERGY. I think someone was asking why they weren't published in an accredited journal? Well now they are and it's up on their page.
Cheers!
Can you post a link please???
http://fpc1.com/topic.php?q=5
and the actual Article:
http://fpc1.com/test_reports.php?typ%5B%5D=4
It's result 2 on the above page.
and the actual Article:
http://fpc1.com/test_reports.php?typ%5B%5D=4
It's result 2 on the above page.
I am still not convinced.
Has anyone here used it, with track-able benefits and changes in MPG?
Thanks, Jim
Has anyone here used it, with track-able benefits and changes in MPG?
Thanks, Jim
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
I am still not convinced.
Has anyone here used it, with track-able benefits and changes in MPG?
Thanks, Jim
Hey Jim,
looking for changes in MPG is a bad idea. You want to look at changes in a unit of power such as torque for an over the road vehicle. No two miles are the same you could be going up hill then down hill or the speed limit could change.
I am still not convinced.
Has anyone here used it, with track-able benefits and changes in MPG?
Thanks, Jim
Hey Jim,
looking for changes in MPG is a bad idea. You want to look at changes in a unit of power such as torque for an over the road vehicle. No two miles are the same you could be going up hill then down hill or the speed limit could change.
Originally Posted By: manofscience
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
I am still not convinced.
Has anyone here used it, with track-able benefits and changes in MPG?
Thanks, Jim
Hey Jim,
looking for changes in MPG is a bad idea. You want to look at changes in a unit of power such as torque for an over the road vehicle. No two miles are the same you could be going up hill then down hill or the speed limit could change.
Great Theory, But...
In practical terms, Harry Homeowner does not have the equipment to do that.
MPG Tracking on the other hand is the best some of us have.
Take Care, Jim
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
I am still not convinced.
Has anyone here used it, with track-able benefits and changes in MPG?
Thanks, Jim
Hey Jim,
looking for changes in MPG is a bad idea. You want to look at changes in a unit of power such as torque for an over the road vehicle. No two miles are the same you could be going up hill then down hill or the speed limit could change.
Great Theory, But...
In practical terms, Harry Homeowner does not have the equipment to do that.
MPG Tracking on the other hand is the best some of us have.
Take Care, Jim
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