When to dump the factory fill oil

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: dtt004
Because my logic demands that you run your vehicle as hard as you can, as fast as you can, while varying the engine speed as best as you can. This flies in the face of, to my knowledge, every single owner's manual out there haha. But remember, they are written to err on the side of caution

Yup. No manufacturer wants to get sued over suggesting that the owner should drive their new car "as hard as you can, as fast as you can". That's like encouraging people to break state laws and to engage in reckless driving.

 

[Whimsey]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: dtt004
Because my logic demands that you run your vehicle as hard as you can, as fast as you can, while varying the engine speed as best as you can. This flies in the face of, to my knowledge, every single owner's manual out there haha. But remember, they are written to err on the side of caution

Yup. No manufacturer wants to get sued over suggesting that the owner should drive their new car "as hard as you can, as fast as you can". That's like encouraging people to break state laws and to engage in reckless driving.

.


When I bought my new manual tranny 1996 Ford Contour 4 cyl Zetec the salesman told me to rev it "freely" and vary the rpm's for the first 500-750 miles. I ordered this car so it had single digit miles on it. I did that and 90,000+++ miles later I burn no oil between OCI's which have been as high as ~8,500 miles on Schaeffer's Supreme Blend 5W-30 SL. The same was done with my then newly ordered 2002 F-150 4.6 V-8 with the manual tranny, it burns no oil between OCI's. With an auto tranny it's harder to do this without speeding,

Whimsey

 

[HTSS_TR]

I never changed FF early in all my cars, they all had normal OCI from beginning. My '94 LS400 with 250k+ miles has no engine problem related to lubricant, it consumes about a pint in 3-4k miles since new. My '00 E430 had FF changed after it passed the FSS (MB Oil Life Monitor) by more than 100 miles, until today it doesn't consume any measurable amount of oil even with xW20. The S2000 wasn't driven much, mostly short distance in city so I had to change the FF out with severe OCI which is 3.75k/6 months.

Some change FF early and happy doing so, some do normal OCI with FF and happy with it. There is no concrete evident that either way is better. No manufacture recommends early change of FF and Honda even specifically want FF in engine the full OCI.

 

[Malo83]

Did my 08 Malibu with the V6 at 500 miles, like to get all the break in crud out of the system early

 

[Bluestream]

Originally Posted By: Whimsey
When I bought my new manual tranny 1996 Ford Contour 4 cyl Zetec the salesman told me to rev it "freely" and vary the rpm's for the first 500-750 miles.

Salesmen usually know whats best for you car...

 

[SteveSRT8]

My owners manual specifically states that FULL THROTTLE operation is beneficial to engine break in.

I broke it in enthusiastically.

Hasn't used a drop anytime, anywhere.

 

[K20FA5]

On our Pilot, I changed it when the MM hit 15%. That was about 4,000 miles or so.

On my Frontier, I went to 3,750 and then changed it. That is the SEVERE Service OCI in the manual.

Neither car burns any oil and both run great.

 

[demarpaint]

I usually dump the FF at about 500 miles, then again at 2000 miles, after that I follow my severe service OCI because that's the category my driving style falls into. As already mentioned the few UOA reports we have for new engines show a lot of wear metals. Big or small "I" want them out.

 

[dwendt44]

I usually change the FF at ~1000 miles.
My new Terrain V-6 has that Dexos synthetic blend as FF so I'm going to hold off until 2000-2500 miles as it may take longer to bead in.
Changed the last car at 1000 and they put in synthetic (error on my part AND theirs), the engine didn't break in until close to 20,000 miles. Grand Prix with 3.8 Buick V-6.

 

[SteveSRT8]

20k for break in is a bit out of the park. The whole 'no synth at break in' is pretty well an old wives tale, as too many new cars now ship with it as factory fill.

A new engine from any major manufacturer is pretty much 'broke in' in minutes, not hours or months later. The reason for cautious driving is driveline and other components, not just the engine.

Rings seat in seconds of engine operation, bearings and such are either right or not, there is no wearing in required of the bottom end for optimal life. Perhaps some exotic valve gear components in multi-cammed exotics may need a few miles, but not many.

As for those who want to change the oil early that's their choice as they own the vehicle. But it is not necessary or needed to change early. Just makes you feel better.

 

[Thermo1223]

Mazda was changed at 5k miles as stated in the manual. Then ran till 7.5k(2.5OCI) miles and switched to PP for 7.5k OCIs just for continuity. In 5k it has had PP in the sump the level hasn't budged.

This isn't evidence to say the way I do it causes more harm or to say the way others do is beneficial. People can argue wear metals all they want but there is no proof having them in there is harmful. So I personally see no need to waste time/money/resources on a non-existent problem.

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
20k for break in is a bit out of the park. The whole 'no synth at break in' is pretty well an old wives tale, as too many new cars now ship with it as factory fill.

A new engine from any major manufacturer is pretty much 'broke in' in minutes, not hours or months later. The reason for cautious driving is driveline and other components, not just the engine.

Rings seat in seconds of engine operation, bearings and such are either right or not, there is no wearing in required of the bottom end for optimal life. Perhaps some exotic valve gear components in multi-cammed exotics may need a few miles, but not many.

As for those who want to change the oil early that's their choice as they own the vehicle. But it is not necessary or needed to change early. Just makes you feel better.


Exactly what I was thinking. Any 'wear in metals' are going to be in the oil within a few minutes of the start of the engine - probably seconds really!

When I used to rebuild engines, I would use a light weight oil for the first fill then take the car for about a 20 - 25 mile drive and then change the oil and filter and call it a day. I saw a couple of my rebuilt engines go another 200K miles - but usually the car was junked long before the engine ever died.

 

[SteveSRT8]

We have a machine shop in the family with 3 generations of experience. They primarily serve a 'big bucks' street rod type of crowd. It's not uncommon to see a rodder spend several thousand on a brand new crate motor to get it built up right.

My Brother-in-law does the break in himself, a blast up and down the road out to the shop. That's usually all it gets!

 

[Bluestream]

Read this thread, but only posts by Bbobynski. He is/was a GM engine designer. If we can't believe his advice, then we know more than the manufacture does and should not be posting on this forum in the first place.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=129903&page=2

From posting 129881:

While the official answer is that the factory oil fill is nothing special....just plain 5W30 Mobil 1 just like you get in the store...the fact is that the engine was assembled on the assembly line with a small amount of ZDP rich assembly lube applied to critical surfaces as assembly lube. Cylinder walls, ring, ring lands, bearings, cam lobes, etc. all receive local applications of a Lubrizol assembly lube product an/or EOS. This assembly lube probably totals around 6 ounces or so total for the engine. This obviously protects against local scuffing or wear during the initial few seconds of operation and then the ZDP rich assembly lube is washed into the oil and contributes to spiking the factory oil fill with extra ZDP....so....in fact, the factory oil fill does, by default, have slightly higher levels of ZDP to guard against breakin wear. Removing this oil and changing early does put less ZDP in the oil for the breakin miles that follow.

It is probably not a big deal at all because the ZDP additive is fairly small, most of the purpose of it being in the oil is covered by the first few miles of operation and new oil would have a certain level of ZDP equivalent to the factory fill oil anyway assuming some of the extra ZDP was used up during the earliest moments of breakin.

But, the fact is that the factory oil fill is a bit "special" having that spike of ZDP rich assembly lube in it.

If you must change early for piece of mind, you could add a pint of GM EOS to the new oil fill to replicate the assembly lube addition to the factory oil fill.

Personally, I would just run the factory oil fill to the first change interval. If you do want to change early, follow the oil life monitor and change at 50% oil life or something like that for an early first change. Changing at 500 and 2000 is a waste of time and money as the oil in the engine at that point is perfectly fine. It won't hurt to change it, especially if you add the EOS but it really isn't going to help anything, either.

I have seen a lot of factory engines torn down after running lots of miles with the factory oil fill and they look perfect inside with no harm done whatsoever by running the oil to the first full oil monitor change interval.

 

[mechanicx]

This was my belief as well that assembly lube used increased the moly, ZDDP and EP additives in the first oil fill. I believe there is a fast initial break in, and then there is a slower complete break-in that can take up to 15k-20k miles. The debate might be whether the assembly lube residual is needed past the initial break-in of a few 100 miles and whether it'd be better to get all wear metals out sooner, or whether the wear metals aren't causing any harm that's not offset by the increase AW additives.

I can see arguments either way and am not sure if it makes much difference. Some of the particles that can cause wear 5-15 microns will get past the oil filter. I tend to compromise and change early 1500-2500 miles but not extremely early. The GM powertrain engineer gave a good solution, change early and supplement the oil with break-in additive.

 

[dwendt44]

There's break-in and then there's break-in.

The 'break-in' in minutes may be correct, and maybe not.
Around 20,000 miles, on the vehicle mentioned above, mileage took a noticeable jump and seemed to rev free'er.
I'm no lead foot, so I don't accelerate all that fast to tell a difference there if anyone seriously could.