WHAT was in my crankcase?

[flhr]

Hello and apologies for the length of this.
I just bought a 2023 CRF 300L over here in Thailand. Went on 4 short rides. 24 hours after purchase @ 62 kilometers, (2 klicks from home), I noticed weaker engine breaking. ??? Throttling up seemed fine, nothing lit on the dash, but it bothered me.
At home, 64 klicks, I checked the oil sight glass. It had a little bubbling and no viscosity. I'm worried now, opened the filler cap running my little finger on everything reachable and what I felt was not engine oil. I later emptied the the crankcase using totally clean pans/funnel. The drain plug was insanely tight and there was no crush washer. The fluid ran out like water (engine had cooled down by this point).
The antifreeze reservoir appeared (MAYBE) a wee bit lower, so my 1st thought was a seal or gasket failed contaminating the oil. However, hours and now 2 days later, there's no separation. It appears consistent.
Could oil & water/antifreeze mix & stay so consistent? If not, someone @ assembly or the dealership put something other than Honda's 10W30 MA oil in there. That might explain the insanely tight drain plug with no washer. To me, this substance looks & feels like a light weight, dirty fork oil.
Note: these bikes are assembled here and most tech's & mechanics are under-educated, disgruntled, under-paid, dislike manuals and torque wrenches & can never do anything wrong. Sorry, I've been here a while.
Friday & Saturday are holidays here so there's no reaching the dealer until Monday. We've already reached out to other Honda offices here but must start with the dealer. I will be adamant about an oil filter inspection and a compression check. Note: I don't want to remove the filter (it's inside the right case), or go any further with this myself for fear of them voiding any warranty.
If you could, please highlight the Dropbox links below and open for videos. I would greatly appreciate any of your comments & opinions.
Thanks in advance!

video_20231021_222245_edit.mp4

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video_20231021_152910.mp4

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[wpod]

Ask the dealer.

 

[MolaKule]

According to the owner's manual:

"Honda 4-stroke motorcycle oil API Service Classification SG or higher, excluding oils marked as “Energy Conserving” or “Resource Conserving” SAE 10W-30, JASO T903 standard MA."

Put some of the used oil in a glass jar, let it sit, and see if you get some oil/water separation.

 

[Kira]

I suggest organizing your thoughts well before presenting your case. It sounds like dealerships there are staffed by garbage people.
Don't be surprised if they punish you by taking forever to address your bike....if they do it at all.

You bought a demo bike new with 62 kilometers on it? All that "klick and km" stuff made for a confusing read.

Was perceived reduction in engine braking your only symptom?

Put some of the used oil in a glass jar, let it sit, and see if you get some oil/water separation.

It looks like he did that in second video. The first attachment came with unfamiliar sign-in panels I wanted nothing to do with.

Since the "tech's and mechanics" are so bad where you are, is it possible some poor, hustling mechanic drained your new oil and indeed replaced it with old fork oil?

What kind of reputation does this dealership have? Good luck.

 

[MolaKule]

...It looks like he did that in second video. The first attachment came with unfamiliar sign-in panels I wanted nothing to do with.

Thanks, I couldn't get either video to execute and I have the latest plug-ins.

 

[flhr]

I suggest organizing your thoughts well before presenting your case. It sounds like dealerships there are staffed by garbage people.
Don't be surprised if they punish you by taking forever to address your bike....if they do it at all.

You bought a demo bike new with 62 kilometers on it? All that "klick and km" stuff made for a confusing read.

Was perceived reduction in engine braking your only symptom?


It looks like he did that in second video. The first attachment came with unfamiliar sign-in panels I wanted nothing to do with.


What kind of reputation does this dealership have? Good luck.

Thanks Kira, they open tomorrow after this long holiday weekend and I'm preparing. Any feedback on the question at the end of this post will be very helpful.
This is a local dealership and in hindsight I should have made the drive to Chiang Mai (a much larger city). I have no experience with this dealer, nor anyone I know.
In Thailand they sell small bikes (around 125cc) 99.9% of the time here. An affordable mode of transport. Of course that's where the mechanics limited experience is, and any good mechanics here are in the oil field making better wages.
The dealer; https://www.facebook.com/sangchailamphun/?locale=th_TH
Apologies for the term klicks, an abbreviation for kilometers. I bought the bike new, 0 kilometers, and road 64Km (39 miles). 62 Km is when I noticed the much weaker engine breaking & yes, it was the only symptom.
Still no separation (pics below), it remains consistent. I'm pretty sure I recall the coolant level being at the full line. This would amount to approximately 1/2 cup of coolant missing.
My biggest concern at this point is; If a little coolant did find its way into the oil (on a brand new bike), could the oil look dirty, thin and consistent like this?
Thanks for any help!

 

[flhr]

Thanks, I couldn't get either video to execute and I have the latest plug-ins.

Sorry for that, I can't attach the videos straight from my phone or laptop.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Thanks, I couldn't get either video to execute and I have the latest plug-ins.

Second one plays on my laptop with Firefox.

 

[853okg]

How soon can you get a UOA? Until then it’s just speculation, right?

 

[flhr]

How soon can you get a UOA? Until then it’s just speculation, right?

Yes, speculation. But an educated guess from the intelligent people on this forum would hold a lot of water until I find a lab here that will do it.
A gal from a large dealership in Chiang Mai called us the other day from all our reaching out. She said "This engine has a problem from manufacture's factory." She couldn't tell me what until an English speaking mechanic was in Monday to explain it.
Dealer opens today from there long holiday. We'll see where the cards fall.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Put some of the used oil in a glass jar, let it sit, and see if you get some oil/water separation.

If water was getting in to the oil, it would be obvious ... typically looks like a creamy mess.

oil and water mixed in engine - Google Search

 

[KrisZ]

I watched the second video, it looked like oil to me. Maybe a bit thinner, but I cannot tell from the video.

I could see bubbles sitting inside after it was poured into the glass and the light was put on it. Water doesn’t do that. Was it perhaps thinned with something, like gas? Perhaps.

 

[ZeeOSix]

You bought a demo bike new with 62 kilometers on it? All that "klick and km" stuff made for a confusing read.

OP is in Thailand. A km a "klick" are a kilometer.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Was it perhaps thinned with something, like gas? Perhaps.

OP, was there any strong gasoline smell to the oil? Was the oil level over the full mark? Perhaps fuel dilution.

 

[flhr]

Dealers mechanics looked at the oil & said it's normal, even though it looked like it came out of a 20year old lawnmower stored outside.
They replaced it & filter which also looked dark/filthy, topped off coolant but couldn't do a compression test;-(
Researching with local foreign owners, mechanics & forums I found there was little QQ at some of these Thai factory's. Dirty outsourced parts were going directly to assembly & apparently using spray can lubricant during assembly.
For me, this explained the weak viscosity a filthy oil & we're doing a compression test at a friends garage soon.
Stressful experience sinse every new engine I've ever had (even diesels) came out golden brown for the 1st several oil changes. Occasionally light metallics from 1st break-in change, but pretty much like new.
Anyways, thank you gentlemen for the input. I always learn a great deal from this forum & very much appreciate it!

 

[ZeeOSix]

I just bought a 2023 CRF 300L over here in Thailand.

Hard for me to imagine that Honda would allow bad QA in factories in Thailand. I bought a new 2024 Kawasaki KLX300 six weeks ago which is also built in Thailand, and I'm impressed with the build quality of that bike. I'd expect the same from a Honda CRF 300L built in Thailand.

 

[flhr]

Totally understandable and I would be skeptical also if it weren't for what came out of the crankcase & there's a QA issue all over the internet (from months ago). Everything else does look very well done and there's many, very content CRF riders here. I can't confirm anything I heard through a third party or read online, but I have no doubt from a friend who dumped his factory oil for a thicker weight (apparently that's common here because of the heat). So it doesn't seem to be a one off, but hopefully isolated & ironed out.
There's been many auto/cycle manufacturers bringing assembly here for the cheap labor & marketing incentives. Even several Harley models. Enjoy the KLX!

Hard for me to imagine that Honda would allow bad QA in factories in Thailand. I bought a new 2024 Kawasaki KLX300 six weeks ago which is also built in Thailand, and I'm impressed with the build quality of that bike. I'd expect the same from a Honda CRF 300L built in Thailand.