What Ever... winter tires can be PRICELESS

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: geeman789
Funny, most of the cars i see in the ditch are poorly DRIVEN cars of almost every brand out there...some on winter tires, some on all-seasons, heck, some even on summers... some AWD, some FWD, some RWD...

Overconfidence would seem to be the common factor.

It's nice to have winter tires, but even better to know they don't make a vehicle perform like it's dry pavement at 70 deg F.

I remember a Nissan commercial for one of the SUVs. They were showing it carving through a slalom course in the snow. Of course it was a professional driver, but in little print there was a disclaimer that they used winter tires. I'm thinking that most didn't notice and came to the conclusion that it could do that with factory tires.


That's my point. The commercials really give people a lot of overconfidence.

Front drivers with bad tires usually can't get going fast enough to do anything bad. They ... just won't go. Same with rear drive vehicles. AWD can get the car going faster than it can safely be controlled.

Even in the Cherokee with siped and studded tires, I drive in the "slow" lane when it's bad out.

 

[Astro14]

Completely agree that overconfidence (which comes from a lack of experience, often) creates poor drivers. Some cars (AWD, SUV, etc.) help to create that overconfidence.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard people here in Virginia say, "I want a 4WD so it's good in snow"...and when I ask, "what kind of tires will you put on it?", they give me a blank stare. No clue that tires are what determine how well you stop and turn in snow...and not stopping, and not turning, are the cause of 99% of crashes in snow. Getting stuck happens once in a while when you don't have good traction, but it doesn't generally cause a crash.

On that snowy day in Stowe, when I saw 3 Subarus wrecked on my road (I am not making this up Subaru fans, it was Thanksgiving, 2002, and it was on Birch Hill Road), they all three had Massachussets plates.

Two wiped out going DOWN the hill (overconfidence, and all season tires), and the third wiped out in front of me while trying to make a turn. AWD did nothing for those three drivers. Snow tires, like the Nokian Hakkapelliita snow tires on my RWD Volvo, would have made all the difference.

All 3 had substantial damage. One was surely totaled. (Big Maple vs. Subaru...tree won...). Sure, they never got stuck...but getting stuck isn't the issue in driving safetly...stopping and turning are...

 

[Rand]

A subaru with bad tires is very bad in winter.

you will get a 4 wheel skid instead of just front or back.

Most people dont know how to drive as well.

in a subaru you generally want to step on the gas-slightly to moderately if you are sliding vs the brake.

And of course drive for the conditions.

I was snowblowing at my Grandma's last year.. she lives at the bottom of a bad hill.

Saw 9 accidents in one day. I had to go buy gas and come back..
coming down the hill its off angle and wants to suck you into the 4ft deep ditch on the right. People were hitting their brakes and doing 180's and 360's into the ditch at the bottom.

Luckily at the bottom its somewhat filled in and not a fresh 4ft deep more like.. 1.5-2ft.
I remember the same hill about 15 years ago I had a 1995 subaru impreza with off-brand tires and was dirt poor. It would go sideways if you even tapped the brakes, but if you tapped the gas the AWD would pull you straight... Definitely a different set of driving reactions needed with AWD, FWD or RWD..

Winter tires can make anything a tank as long as you drive to conditions.

 

[Reggaemon]

Why and how did this winter tire thread turn into a Subaru bashing thread?

I find most Subaru drivers to be some of the slowest and safest drivers on the road.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Reggaemon
Why and how did this winter tire thread turn into a Subaru bashing thread?

I find most Subaru drivers to be some of the slowest and safest drivers on the road.


Who is bashing Subarus?

The thread started out with a Subaru driver talking about how important winter tires are....the rest of us agree with him...winter tires are important...and while slow and safe on dry pavement may be your observation, I've got quite a few observations of the overconfidence of drivers in poor conditions...

So, I've been bashing ignorant, overconfident drivers...are you supporting them?

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Reggaemon
Why and how did this winter tire thread turn into a Subaru bashing thread?

I find most Subaru drivers to be some of the slowest and safest drivers on the road.


Who is bashing Subarus?

The thread started out with a Subaru driver talking about how important winter tires are....the rest of us agree with him...winter tires are important...and while slow and safe on dry pavement may be your observation, I've got quite a few observations of the overconfidence of drivers in poor conditions...

So, I've been bashing ignorant, overconfident drivers...are you supporting them?


Not a subaru bashing thread at all.

It's a thread bashing those who believe that a good AWD system is all you need to stop and turn (especially going down hill).

 

[Reggaemon]

No, this thread was about using 4 snows in winter. Then it was changed to all the Subarus crashing in the winter. Not bashing Subarus? Then explain why there are 35 posts and Subaru is mentioned in 24 of them! The only other car mentioned is Nissan, and that is just a commercial.

I take it that only Subaru drivers are over confident and all the other drivers in the ditch are just unlucky.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Reggaemon
No, this thread was about using 4 snows in winter. Then it was changed to all the Subarus crashing in the winter. Not bashing Subarus? Then explain why there are 35 posts and Subaru is mentioned in 24 of them! The only other car mentioned is Nissan, and that is just a commercial.

I take it that only Subaru drivers are over confident and all the other drivers in the ditch are just unlucky.

Let me be clear, I put Subaru drivers in same basket with drivers of F-150, Ram, etc, etc (when I say Subaru drivers, it is mostly Outback's).
This morning in Colorado Springs was -1! I got out driving slowly to warm up engine to proper temperature (if possible) only cars that passed me were: Outback's (I think half of my neighborhood have Outbacks), and pick-up trucks. Apparently for them laws of thermodynamic does not apply.
Not to mention that I saw a guy with pick-up trying to catch yellow light when everyone knows that stop lights are always icy. Of course, he could not stop, so he ran red light. Other luckily saw his "performance" so they were waiting outcome of his attempt.
Two days ago I saw guy putting winter tires in Costco on his wife's Outback. That is first Outback I saw with winter tires here. So yes, generally, I think in the snow, Subaru drivers are overconfident and that is why they get in troubles.

 

[glock19]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Reggaemon
Why and how did this winter tire thread turn into a Subaru bashing thread?

I find most Subaru drivers to be some of the slowest and safest drivers on the road.


Who is bashing Subarus?

The thread started out with a Subaru driver talking about how important winter tires are....the rest of us agree with him...winter tires are important...and while slow and safe on dry pavement may be your observation, I've got quite a few observations of the overconfidence of drivers in poor conditions...

So, I've been bashing ignorant, overconfident drivers...are you supporting them?


I think the point is that this thread keep associating these overconfident, un-skilled drivers with Subarus. The car makes absolutely no difference. Yes you probably have seen a bunch of wrecked Subarus up in Mass and Vermont because a TON of people up there drive Subarus. If they chose not to use winter tires and to drive to fast for the conditions that has nothing to do with Subaru's marketing or the abilities of the car, it's an idiot driver (you can't fix stupid). No one in this thread is defending un-skilled drivers, but it's ridiculous to think that Subaru marketing or the car are somehow convincing people to go racing through the snow on all-seasons.

This thread has been negative towards Subarus but I guarantee that if you put the same tires on a Subaru and any 2WD car the Subaru will destroy it in adverse weather conditions.

TLR - It's not the dang car, it's the driver. Idiots drive all makes and models, leave Subaru out of it.

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

... So yes, generally, I think in the snow, Subaru drivers are overconfident and that is why they get in troubles.


Just stop, please. You're hurting my feelings... !

I' m starting to think that my SUBARU, with AWD and winter tires, is making me a bad driver...!?!?

Actually, I'm laughing at how ridiculous some of these posts are....!

So, yes, generally, I think on the internet, some people just shouldn't post... then they won't look quite so silly...!

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
Originally Posted By: edyvw

... So yes, generally, I think in the snow, Subaru drivers are overconfident and that is why they get in troubles.


Just stop, please. You're hurting my feelings... !

I' m starting to think that my SUBARU, with AWD and winter tires, is making me a bad driver...!?!?

Actually, I'm laughing at how ridiculous some of these posts are....!

So, yes, generally, I think on the internet, some people just shouldn't post... then they won't look quite so silly...!


Equipping your Subaru with snow tires makes you a smart driver. Has nothing to do with your driving skill.

Subaru is an easy target. They are very popular and their advertising caters to those who may not do their research. I have nothing against the product or the brand.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: geeman789
Originally Posted By: edyvw

... So yes, generally, I think in the snow, Subaru drivers are overconfident and that is why they get in troubles.


Just stop, please. You're hurting my feelings... !

I' m starting to think that my SUBARU, with AWD and winter tires, is making me a bad driver...!?!?

Actually, I'm laughing at how ridiculous some of these posts are....!

So, yes, generally, I think on the internet, some people just shouldn't post... then they won't look quite so silly...!


Equipping your Subaru with snow tires makes you a smart driver. Has nothing to do with your driving skill.

Subaru is an easy target. They are very popular and their advertising caters to those who may not do their research. I have nothing against the product or the brand.

A lot of vehicle advertising is unrealistic to a great degree. Jeep/Xterra/etc ads show drivers bounding over rocky terrain at unrealistic speeds for the conditions, but don't explain that several vehicles were towed away from the set when their axles or brake lines failed.

Of course drivers want this image of ruggedness, but is life really like an SUV commercial where someone is climbing up a rock face with a Ford Explorer, or falling off a mountain bike and patching oneself up? Vehicle advertising is about as truthful as tobacco ads.

 

[Lapham3]

We just had our first snow event and it's about the same as most years-the ultra cautious drive too slow(please call in sick, ect-just stay home) and the type A idiots drive almost like it's a normal day=bad mix! The vans and suv stuff with higher center of gravity often tip over/turtle, too. The Subaru deal-when we lived in Colorado, the early little Suby models were like the 'state car'=they were everywhere.

 

[Astro14]

A Subie with 4 proper winter tires, like the Nokian Hakapelliitas, or Blizzaks, is a beast in the snow.

Most Subarus that I see with Vermont plates (in Vermont) have the Hakas on them...funny, never saw a Subaru with Vermont plates wrecked on slippery roads....

Wonder why that is...eh?

 

[geeman789]

You can TELL a driver how great winter tires are...

But you can't make them buy some.... unless you live in Quebec, Canada...

Where winter tires are required by law...! The ONLY province to do so.

 

[Mr_Joe]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
You can TELL a driver how great winter tires are...

But you can't make them buy some.... unless you live in Quebec, Canada...

Where winter tires are required by law...! The ONLY province to do so.


Yes, some places in Europe mandate Winter tires for the snowy season, all or parts of Germany for one. I'm kinda neutral on the mandate part, but agree it would save lives.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

How strongly enforced is the mandated snow tires?

I feel that the roads would be much safer if all people used snow tirese ... but I dont like government mandates. Conflict of interest for me!

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
How strongly enforced is the mandated snow tires?

I feel that the roads would be much safer if all people used snow tirese ... but I dont like government mandates. Conflict of interest for me!


Apparently that's required for vehicles registered in Quebec, but not necessarily passing through. It's for Dec 15 to March 15.

http://www.saaq.gouv.qc.ca/en/road_safety/vehicles/winter_tires/index.php

Apparently there are limited exemptions for vehicles leaving/returning to Quebec, cars coming out of storage, or when canceling a lease (I suppose they want all-seasons before it's returned). And it lasts a max 7 days.

http://www.saaq.gouv.qc.ca/saaqclic/en/public/winter-tires/index.php

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
How strongly enforced is the mandated snow tires?

I feel that the roads would be much safer if all people used snow tirese ... but I dont like government mandates. Conflict of interest for me!



$ 300 cdn fine for non-compliance. A friend said he saw a winter safety checkstop once, where they were checking tires etc. And if you get a speeding ticket etc., they will look at your tires, too.

Quebec already had a 90% winter tire useage rate BEFORE it became law. It is now estimated to be 95% plus...

In my province, Alberta, winter tire useage hovers around 50%... and we just got our first blast of winter last week...2*F, lots of snow... packed snow and ice on most roads...

Must be all those SUBARU guys on all seasons throwin' off the stats...! Actually, here the problem is trucks... almost never see a truck with winter tires...

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Trucks are also a problem here as well. In my parking lot there are two out of state trucks with less than 2/32" of tread ... they will not be safe. But will provide me some entertainment during the first snow storm.