What do all of you think of Mercedes-Benz?
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Nick1994
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Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
My dad has done collision work for over 25 years, has worked on nearly every car out there and says one of the biggest pieces of junk out there are Mercedes.
My body man owns a high end collision shop, has been working on wrecked cars for forty years, is about to retire, and is a good friend.
He says there are three cars he would want to be in during a major accident. One of them is a Mercedes.
I didn't say anything about them not being safe, just that they're junk. A nightmare to repair and put back together
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
My dad has done collision work for over 25 years, has worked on nearly every car out there and says one of the biggest pieces of junk out there are Mercedes.
My body man owns a high end collision shop, has been working on wrecked cars for forty years, is about to retire, and is a good friend.
He says there are three cars he would want to be in during a major accident. One of them is a Mercedes.
I didn't say anything about them not being safe, just that they're junk. A nightmare to repair and put back together
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
My dad has done collision work for over 25 years, has worked on nearly every car out there and says one of the biggest pieces of junk out there are Mercedes.
My body man owns a high end collision shop, has been working on wrecked cars for forty years, is about to retire, and is a good friend.
He says there are three cars he would want to be in during a major accident. One of them is a Mercedes.
+1
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
My dad has done collision work for over 25 years, has worked on nearly every car out there and says one of the biggest pieces of junk out there are Mercedes.
My body man owns a high end collision shop, has been working on wrecked cars for forty years, is about to retire, and is a good friend.
He says there are three cars he would want to be in during a major accident. One of them is a Mercedes.
+1
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I don't think we can get the A-class MB here. That's a FWD model available in Europe, and perhaps other locations.
That's my problem... MBUSA tries SO hard to make this feel good "I deserve" "luxury" element for people who have to fleece their cars and cannot afford them. It ruins the best elements of their vehicles that they sell all over the rest of the world. Brand positioning here in the USA has ruined the marque, amongst others.
My hope is that with them selling cargo vans and busses with the star on them, perhaps that will change in the interest of improving market share, versus catering to some very superficial imbeciles who cant afford the car past the lease payment.
I don't think we can get the A-class MB here. That's a FWD model available in Europe, and perhaps other locations.
That's my problem... MBUSA tries SO hard to make this feel good "I deserve" "luxury" element for people who have to fleece their cars and cannot afford them. It ruins the best elements of their vehicles that they sell all over the rest of the world. Brand positioning here in the USA has ruined the marque, amongst others.
My hope is that with them selling cargo vans and busses with the star on them, perhaps that will change in the interest of improving market share, versus catering to some very superficial imbeciles who cant afford the car past the lease payment.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I don't think we can get the A-class MB here. That's a FWD model available in Europe, and perhaps other locations.
Lexus offers the IS, which is RWD or AWD. I do believe they may have another RWD offering.
FWIW
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: bepperb
There are plenty of people who don't really care about handling or rear wheel drive, don't really care about interior quality. They want a reliable car with a luxury badge.
I never knew every MB was RWD or every Lexus was FWD thanks for that bit of info. If you don’t care about a quality interior you don’t need to be looking at luxury brands.
The A, B and C class all offer FWD. The new CLA for example which is available in the US.
I don't think we can get the A-class MB here. That's a FWD model available in Europe, and perhaps other locations.
Lexus offers the IS, which is RWD or AWD. I do believe they may have another RWD offering.
FWIW
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: bepperb
There are plenty of people who don't really care about handling or rear wheel drive, don't really care about interior quality. They want a reliable car with a luxury badge.
I never knew every MB was RWD or every Lexus was FWD thanks for that bit of info. If you don’t care about a quality interior you don’t need to be looking at luxury brands.
The A, B and C class all offer FWD. The new CLA for example which is available in the US.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I don't think we can get the A-class MB here. That's a FWD model available in Europe, and perhaps other locations.
That's my problem... MBUSA tries SO hard to make this feel good "I deserve" "luxury" element for people who have to fleece their cars and cannot afford them. It ruins the best elements of their vehicles that they sell all over the rest of the world. Brand positioning here in the USA has ruined the marque, amongst others.
My hope is that with them selling cargo vans and busses with the star on them, perhaps that will change in the interest of improving market share, versus catering to some very superficial imbeciles who cant afford the car past the lease payment.
In Germany you can still get an E class with gas or diesel with a 6 spd stick and the nice Mercedes cloth interior.
The E250 204 HP diesel or E200 187 HP gasoline both 4 cyl.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I don't think we can get the A-class MB here. That's a FWD model available in Europe, and perhaps other locations.
That's my problem... MBUSA tries SO hard to make this feel good "I deserve" "luxury" element for people who have to fleece their cars and cannot afford them. It ruins the best elements of their vehicles that they sell all over the rest of the world. Brand positioning here in the USA has ruined the marque, amongst others.
My hope is that with them selling cargo vans and busses with the star on them, perhaps that will change in the interest of improving market share, versus catering to some very superficial imbeciles who cant afford the car past the lease payment.
In Germany you can still get an E class with gas or diesel with a 6 spd stick and the nice Mercedes cloth interior.
The E250 204 HP diesel or E200 187 HP gasoline both 4 cyl.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I don't think we can get the A-class MB here. That's a FWD model available in Europe, and perhaps other locations.
That's my problem... MBUSA tries SO hard to make this feel good "I deserve" "luxury" element for people who have to fleece their cars and cannot afford them. It ruins the best elements of their vehicles that they sell all over the rest of the world. Brand positioning here in the USA has ruined the marque, amongst others.
My hope is that with them selling cargo vans and busses with the star on them, perhaps that will change in the interest of improving market share, versus catering to some very superficial imbeciles who cant afford the car past the lease payment.
In Germany you can still get an E class with gas or diesel with a 6 spd stick and the nice Mercedes cloth interior.
The E250 204 HP diesel or E200 187 HP gasoline both 4 cyl.
Yeah, I know... Problem is I cant get those here because of the stupid MBUSA branding policies.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I don't think we can get the A-class MB here. That's a FWD model available in Europe, and perhaps other locations.
That's my problem... MBUSA tries SO hard to make this feel good "I deserve" "luxury" element for people who have to fleece their cars and cannot afford them. It ruins the best elements of their vehicles that they sell all over the rest of the world. Brand positioning here in the USA has ruined the marque, amongst others.
My hope is that with them selling cargo vans and busses with the star on them, perhaps that will change in the interest of improving market share, versus catering to some very superficial imbeciles who cant afford the car past the lease payment.
In Germany you can still get an E class with gas or diesel with a 6 spd stick and the nice Mercedes cloth interior.
The E250 204 HP diesel or E200 187 HP gasoline both 4 cyl.
Yeah, I know... Problem is I cant get those here because of the stupid MBUSA branding policies.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
I didn't say anything about them not being safe, just that they're junk. A nightmare to repair and put back together
In all due respect, I again disagree.
If anything, it's the exact opposite. The better Europeans are designed to be disassembled and reassembled down to a structural level. It's the Japanese ones that are difficult, as they use much more adhesives in basic body assembly, and are not designed to be taken apart - at least for body repair. The write ups for a Japanese vehicle are more involved, and more work, for this reason. Ancillary parts often have to be broken to repair many Japanese vehicles. Most American makes are somewhere in between. I will say that I have been told that the top Japanese makes are meticulously assembled, but that is little consolation when tearing one apart.
Again, this is from someone in the business who has torn apart and rebuilt more smashed up cars than most people.
Having had to roll down a couple of Volvo interiors over the years, I can confirm that they are definitely built to be taken apart and reassembled cleanly.
If your father is working primarily on C-Class Mercs at the bottom of the food chain, then that may start to diverge from a "better" European as I was discussing it.
I didn't say anything about them not being safe, just that they're junk. A nightmare to repair and put back together
In all due respect, I again disagree.
If anything, it's the exact opposite. The better Europeans are designed to be disassembled and reassembled down to a structural level. It's the Japanese ones that are difficult, as they use much more adhesives in basic body assembly, and are not designed to be taken apart - at least for body repair. The write ups for a Japanese vehicle are more involved, and more work, for this reason. Ancillary parts often have to be broken to repair many Japanese vehicles. Most American makes are somewhere in between. I will say that I have been told that the top Japanese makes are meticulously assembled, but that is little consolation when tearing one apart.
Again, this is from someone in the business who has torn apart and rebuilt more smashed up cars than most people.
Having had to roll down a couple of Volvo interiors over the years, I can confirm that they are definitely built to be taken apart and reassembled cleanly.
If your father is working primarily on C-Class Mercs at the bottom of the food chain, then that may start to diverge from a "better" European as I was discussing it.
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Originally Posted By: Trav
In Germany you can still get an E class with gas or diesel with a 6 spd stick and the nice Mercedes cloth interior.
The E250 204 HP diesel or E200 187 HP gasoline both 4 cyl.
Taxi or rental car likely. That was what a C220 diesel was for us on my honeymoon in Italy. Not a bad car but not a USA MB.
In Germany you can still get an E class with gas or diesel with a 6 spd stick and the nice Mercedes cloth interior.
The E250 204 HP diesel or E200 187 HP gasoline both 4 cyl.
Taxi or rental car likely. That was what a C220 diesel was for us on my honeymoon in Italy. Not a bad car but not a USA MB.
Not at all. It can be had with some pretty decent packages and options without loosing the powertrain.
You can get cars as minimal or loaded as you want. MB USA just specs the packages, if you want a rental that is loaded rent a S class.
You can get cars as minimal or loaded as you want. MB USA just specs the packages, if you want a rental that is loaded rent a S class.
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I can't stand them.
Originally Posted By: Trav
The A, B and C class all offer FWD. The new CLA for example which is available in the US.
C-class is still RWD (or AWD). CLA is FWD, indeed.
The A, B and C class all offer FWD. The new CLA for example which is available in the US.
C-class is still RWD (or AWD). CLA is FWD, indeed.
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I didn't mean to post what I posted verbatim. There are some MB models I absolutely LOVE!!
The C111
350SL
The 60s-70s diesels
Probably many more I can't think of.
MB made some beautiful cars. I guess I should've said I can't stand most current cars,from all makes. If I had to buy a brand new car,I honestly couldn't choose one.
There's a current 2-seater MB that is AWESOME!! I drove one recently and it felt like I was sitting in a go-cart. I can't remember the model,but it was SWEET!!
The C111
350SL
The 60s-70s diesels
Probably many more I can't think of.
MB made some beautiful cars. I guess I should've said I can't stand most current cars,from all makes. If I had to buy a brand new car,I honestly couldn't choose one.
There's a current 2-seater MB that is AWESOME!! I drove one recently and it felt like I was sitting in a go-cart. I can't remember the model,but it was SWEET!!
Lost interest in there engineering and quality since post '95
To me, MB went downhill in terms of solidity and reliability after the W123 body (circa 1985). Bumpers were replaced by plastic, and the electronics became over-complicated. This led to reliability problems down the road.
Would I buy a new Benz today? Probably not. I'd snap up a well-maintained 300D W123 body though.
Would I buy a new Benz today? Probably not. I'd snap up a well-maintained 300D W123 body though.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: bepperb
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: bepperb
There are plenty of people who don't really care about handling or rear wheel drive, don't really care about interior quality. They want a reliable car with a luxury badge.
I never knew every MB was RWD or every Lexus was FWD thanks for that bit of info. If you don’t care about a quality interior you don’t need to be looking at luxury brands.
Is this one of those "I'm twisting what the other guy said so I can win an argument" posts? Who ever said all Lexus' were FWD and all Mercedes RWD? Not me.
Anyway, if MB works for you that's great. I gave "what I think of Mercedes-Benz" and if you don't agree that's what makes this forum great.
Then why did you say this..
Quote:
There are plenty of people who don't really care about handling or rear wheel drive
I never mentioned RWD you did. I was just pointing out there are FWD MB cars.
Mercedes makes all sizes of cars that are more than competitive with the likes of Toyota and Honda, etc.
Very few cars if any ever built were as dependable or reliable as the W123 diesels.
The owners manual in my old 1980 200D stated MB designed the car with a 30 year life span, a million Km was well within reach for the engine with no major repairs if any other than maybe a water pump.
I sold mine when it was 25 yrs old and still in immaculate condition. Nothing fancy, roll up windows a 4spd stick A/C and a Webasto OE manual sunroof.
The material on the seats looked like new, no wear and tear as did the carpets and the rest of the car.
My grandmother bought it new and kept it 20 yrs, she had it serviced by MB every 6 mo if it needed it or not. It only had a brake job, 2 batteries and a muffler other than routine stuff like fluid changes.
Hows that for a dependable no fills car with a luxury badge.
BTW other than headlight bulbs and tires, fluids i did nothing to it when i owned it.
I did install a diesel cat for tax reasons, it didn’t come with one.
No car i ever owned compares to this old lady. She was a pleasure to drive and own, i miss it. It had a mechanical feeling to it that is beyond words.
Fortunately i still have my grandmothers last MB car before she stopped driving.
The day i sold it. This is the original 1980 paint in 2005, never touched up, it is flawless. Notice the nice Euro bumpers.
I put the dash cover on to protect the 20+ year old undamaged plastic.
That is one lovely car. I remember driving a Euro version 300D W123 body that looked just like that in the late '80s in Virginia after my dad bought it from a Turkish diplomat. It had crank windows, manual sunroof, 4 speed manual, and a wonderfully sounding Blaupunkt cassette stereo system. To this day, I am still looking for the sound similar to what came out of those stock speakers. The closest I've heard of is my Tivoli portable radio.
Anyways, the car was built like a tank, doors shut like bank vaults, and the diesel engine was built like a Swiss automatic watch. Since, then I've had the chance to drive its 240D US counterpart, and finally a Euro 280TE - all 123 bodies. These were all reliable cars, free from unnecessary electronic gadgets that caused MB's reliability ratings to go down.
I dream of the day when Mercedes can go back to making simple, well-engineered cars that did not cater to the company's marketing department.
Originally Posted By: bepperb
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: bepperb
There are plenty of people who don't really care about handling or rear wheel drive, don't really care about interior quality. They want a reliable car with a luxury badge.
I never knew every MB was RWD or every Lexus was FWD thanks for that bit of info. If you don’t care about a quality interior you don’t need to be looking at luxury brands.
Is this one of those "I'm twisting what the other guy said so I can win an argument" posts? Who ever said all Lexus' were FWD and all Mercedes RWD? Not me.
Anyway, if MB works for you that's great. I gave "what I think of Mercedes-Benz" and if you don't agree that's what makes this forum great.
Then why did you say this..
Quote:
There are plenty of people who don't really care about handling or rear wheel drive
I never mentioned RWD you did. I was just pointing out there are FWD MB cars.
Mercedes makes all sizes of cars that are more than competitive with the likes of Toyota and Honda, etc.
Very few cars if any ever built were as dependable or reliable as the W123 diesels.
The owners manual in my old 1980 200D stated MB designed the car with a 30 year life span, a million Km was well within reach for the engine with no major repairs if any other than maybe a water pump.
I sold mine when it was 25 yrs old and still in immaculate condition. Nothing fancy, roll up windows a 4spd stick A/C and a Webasto OE manual sunroof.
The material on the seats looked like new, no wear and tear as did the carpets and the rest of the car.
My grandmother bought it new and kept it 20 yrs, she had it serviced by MB every 6 mo if it needed it or not. It only had a brake job, 2 batteries and a muffler other than routine stuff like fluid changes.
Hows that for a dependable no fills car with a luxury badge.
BTW other than headlight bulbs and tires, fluids i did nothing to it when i owned it.
I did install a diesel cat for tax reasons, it didn’t come with one.
No car i ever owned compares to this old lady. She was a pleasure to drive and own, i miss it. It had a mechanical feeling to it that is beyond words.
Fortunately i still have my grandmothers last MB car before she stopped driving.
The day i sold it. This is the original 1980 paint in 2005, never touched up, it is flawless. Notice the nice Euro bumpers.
I put the dash cover on to protect the 20+ year old undamaged plastic.
That is one lovely car. I remember driving a Euro version 300D W123 body that looked just like that in the late '80s in Virginia after my dad bought it from a Turkish diplomat. It had crank windows, manual sunroof, 4 speed manual, and a wonderfully sounding Blaupunkt cassette stereo system. To this day, I am still looking for the sound similar to what came out of those stock speakers. The closest I've heard of is my Tivoli portable radio.
Anyways, the car was built like a tank, doors shut like bank vaults, and the diesel engine was built like a Swiss automatic watch. Since, then I've had the chance to drive its 240D US counterpart, and finally a Euro 280TE - all 123 bodies. These were all reliable cars, free from unnecessary electronic gadgets that caused MB's reliability ratings to go down.
I dream of the day when Mercedes can go back to making simple, well-engineered cars that did not cater to the company's marketing department.
Originally Posted By: horse123
As an auto manufacturer and company in general. I tend to believe that a M-B will last quite a bit longer than a similar BMW or Audi. And I think reliability ratings seem to usually back that up. But then you also have people saying that because they last longer, they're boring cars. How boring are they REALLY if you want a mid range ($50-80k) luxury car? I don't think Merc is quite going for super high end track performance on anything except some of the AMG lineup.
Would you drive one?
No.
For that money, I'd buy something stylish.
That eliminates anything German (or Japanese) from consideration.
As an auto manufacturer and company in general. I tend to believe that a M-B will last quite a bit longer than a similar BMW or Audi. And I think reliability ratings seem to usually back that up. But then you also have people saying that because they last longer, they're boring cars. How boring are they REALLY if you want a mid range ($50-80k) luxury car? I don't think Merc is quite going for super high end track performance on anything except some of the AMG lineup.
Would you drive one?
No.
For that money, I'd buy something stylish.
That eliminates anything German (or Japanese) from consideration.
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Seems like all the European makes take "DESIGNED OBSOLECENCE" to the extreme.
...and the replacement parts are $$$!!!
I also don't like Mercedes HUGE emblem on the grills, but that's personal preference.
I read somewhere that a Toyota Camry had a better suspension...TIFWIW
Put down whatever you are ingesting.
The Camry's suspension is primitive compared with the multilink front and rear on any Mercedes that I've owned. The Camry ride is lumpy and the handling imprecise by comparison. They're just not comparable machines in any respect.
Designed Obselecence?? Mercedes is the one manufacturer that's fought against it! Where are you getting your facts? I can order any part for any Mercedes ever made. They support every car they've ever built. Try that with a Toyota or a domestic. I can't get some parts for my 4Runner. Toyota doesn't make them any more. But I can get everything I want for the 1992 MB from Mercedes, and it looks just as good as it did when it rolled off the showroom floor 23 years ago.
As far as parts prices, Vern, where are you getting your information? The complete head gasket kit for the 1991 MB was $89 from the dealer. It included the headgasket, exhaust gaskets, intake gasket and various o-rings and seals to do the job. Price anyone else's kit lately? Toyota perhaps? MB parts are often very reasonable.
But you have to actually own one to know any of this...it's easy to listen to the horror stories that distort the facts and draw faulty conclusions based on the anecdotal, second-hand evidence.
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Seems like all the European makes take "DESIGNED OBSOLECENCE" to the extreme.
...and the replacement parts are $$$!!!
I also don't like Mercedes HUGE emblem on the grills, but that's personal preference.
I read somewhere that a Toyota Camry had a better suspension...TIFWIW
Put down whatever you are ingesting.
The Camry's suspension is primitive compared with the multilink front and rear on any Mercedes that I've owned. The Camry ride is lumpy and the handling imprecise by comparison. They're just not comparable machines in any respect.
Designed Obselecence?? Mercedes is the one manufacturer that's fought against it! Where are you getting your facts? I can order any part for any Mercedes ever made. They support every car they've ever built. Try that with a Toyota or a domestic. I can't get some parts for my 4Runner. Toyota doesn't make them any more. But I can get everything I want for the 1992 MB from Mercedes, and it looks just as good as it did when it rolled off the showroom floor 23 years ago.
As far as parts prices, Vern, where are you getting your information? The complete head gasket kit for the 1991 MB was $89 from the dealer. It included the headgasket, exhaust gaskets, intake gasket and various o-rings and seals to do the job. Price anyone else's kit lately? Toyota perhaps? MB parts are often very reasonable.
But you have to actually own one to know any of this...it's easy to listen to the horror stories that distort the facts and draw faulty conclusions based on the anecdotal, second-hand evidence.
Last edited:
I needed the small carpet insert for the center console. I had taken it it out to clean under it and it ended up in my daughters doll house or something like that, but not in one piece.
I thought i was screwed and would have to find something close in color and cut it myself.
No problem, the MB dealer (the largest in Bavaria) part man said wait a min and went looking. He came back with a brand new one in the package 20+ years old in the correct color.
Parts were very reasonable for that car right from the dealer and every single screw and part was available. Like you say long term support is what Mercedes does best.
I thought i was screwed and would have to find something close in color and cut it myself.
No problem, the MB dealer (the largest in Bavaria) part man said wait a min and went looking. He came back with a brand new one in the package 20+ years old in the correct color.
Parts were very reasonable for that car right from the dealer and every single screw and part was available. Like you say long term support is what Mercedes does best.
Originally Posted By: Win
For that money, I'd buy something stylish.
That eliminates anything German (or Japanese) from consideration.
So what specifically would you buy then?
For that money, I'd buy something stylish.
That eliminates anything German (or Japanese) from consideration.
So what specifically would you buy then?
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