Weapon Shield

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Ws6
....after your spiel about weaponshield and your bolt guns and not caring about scientific method, eschewing it for "I just know it works"...I can't tell if your above post is satire, or not.


The guy posts pictures of an upper and lower run bone dry...... Then goes on to complain how difficult it is to clean.. Gee, ya' think? He then whines that an AR is gunked up after sitting for months in a safe after being treated with cooking oil. He then goes on for half a dozen paragraphs to talk about lubricants, when he doesn't have a single drop of ANY on his gun. Yeah, real "scientific", no doubt. After that we're treated to a cooking lesson. What's next, the best kitchen floor wax to use, if your new puppy isn't housebroken yet? You guys should be a tag team at the local comedy club!

 

[Skeet6]

This is complete and utter fanboyism nonsense. As one who usually shoots out at least one barrel a year in competition, who shoots more in a year than most casual enthusiasts ever will, I can tell you as a highpower competitor ANYTHING works in an AR - or any other service rifle for that matter - from the cheapest dollar store motor oil to CLP to USGI "grease, rifle" to Mobil 1 grease - when applied properly.

If you think you need to study this, and show the results of your "studies" and get on the bandwagon of the latest thing, go ahead and do so, but you sound like a buffoon when you say that it's T H A T M U C H better.

I can assure you on the firing line at the National Matches at Camp Perry 95% of those ARs are running CLP or Mobil 1, which many competitors use and swear by. And yeah, I travel this country shooting the AR and the M1 and the M14 in competition, and use a combo of M1 or CLP as oil and M1 grease on all, usually.

You know what lube works best?? THE ONE YOU USE PROPERLY!!

ANY lube... applied when needed, where needed will work, and work well. I even like the "Red oil" mix, I made a gallon or so, it works well, too - and is CHEEEEP. Remember, the key is actually applying properly, replacing when needed, and cleaning. The rest is just marketing hype and fanboy bullhockey.

Used motor oil (any grade) would far exceed the needs of the AR... run it wet and stop the "scientific" nonsense.
Mike B

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
....after your spiel about weaponshield and your bolt guns and not caring about scientific method, eschewing it for "I just know it works"...I can't tell if your above post is satire, or not.


He then whines that an AR is gunked up after sitting for months in a safe after being treated with cooking oil. Cooking oil...kindof like how weaponshield is motor oil? Motor oil that you pay how much a quart for? He then goes on for half a dozen paragraphs to talk about lubricants, when he doesn't have a single drop of ANY on his gun. Huh? Yeah, real "scientific", no doubt. After that we're treated to a cooking lesson. What's next, the best kitchen floor wax to use, if your new puppy isn't housebroken yet? You guys should be a tag team at the local comedy club!


Tell me the story again about how Weapon Shield somehow magically fixed your bolt guns while explaining to me how I'm lying about an objective evaluation of FIREClean?

Look, why don't you post up how your experiences with thousands of rounds downrange a year with the M4 platform differ from mine, using various CLP's, yeah? You got something to bring to the table other than a temper-tantrum? I'd like to see it. Ad hominum seems to be all you've brought with you.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: Skeet6
This is complete and utter fanboyism nonsense. As one who usually shoots out at least one barrel a year in competition, who shoots more in a year than most casual enthusiasts ever will, I can tell you as a highpower competitor ANYTHING works in an AR - or any other service rifle for that matter - from the cheapest dollar store motor oil to CLP to USGI "grease, rifle" to Mobil 1 grease - when applied properly.

If you think you need to study this, and show the results of your "studies" and get on the bandwagon of the latest thing, go ahead and do so, but you sound like a buffoon when you say that it's T H A T M U C H better.

I can assure you on the firing line at the National Matches at Camp Perry 95% of those ARs are running CLP or Mobil 1, which many competitors use and swear by. And yeah, I travel this country shooting the AR and the M1 and the M14 in competition.

You know what lube works best?? THE ONE YOU USE PROPERLY!!

ANY lube... applied when needed, where needed will work, and work well. I even like the "Red oil" mix, I made a gallon or so, it works well, too - and is CHEEEEP. Remember, the key is actually applying properly, replacing when needed, and cleaning. The rest is just marketing hype and fanboy bullhockey.

Used motor oil (any grade) would far exceed the needs of the AR... run it wet and stop the "scientific" nonsense.
Mike B


I agree 100% that the M4 will run on anything. Even Astroglide or urine. Literally. That said, I have found that it runs longer and cleans up faster when using different products vs. others. For example, Henderson Defense in Vegas perfers SLIP products. Why? They work very well at keeping the guns running, and they have a lot of well-dressed customers who just "want to shoot a machiengun", and they have found that SLIP tends to sling off the weapon the least. It's also non-toxic and provided them with a full MSDS. Getting $600 shirts dirty is bad for business, and not everyone in Vegas has the understanding that this COULD happen around a machinegun...They put about 1000 rounds every 1-2 days through each of their weapons, as I understand it, nearly every day a year. MASSIVE amounts of data generated from their armory about what works/doesn't.

Regarding ease of cleaning, you can call it what you want, but when I have to scrub with a brush vs. wipe with a paper towel, it's "a difference" to me. Also, when I have a suppressed .22 that feels like sand is in the slide with one product after 75 rounds, and feels the same as when I last cleaned it at 200+ rounds with another product...it's "a real difference".

I don't have stock in any CLP producing company, these are just observations, and I could care less if anyone buys anything. However, I'm not going to simply let someone call something "cooking oil" because it is derived from vegetable sources unless they let me call their pet product "motor oil" because it comes from group 3 base stock. Fair is fair, lol

 

[90crvtec]

OK. So I just have this one question remaining.

You mentioned that you wanted to try Weapon Shield based on the EP relationship with the chamber and bolt lugs on the AR. I understand this and it makes sense to me from that standpoint.

But that Canadian test (thanks for the link, already had a copy from years ago) rightly proves that the falex wear tests touted by some lubricant manufacturers don't seem to translate to reduced wear in firearms.

Why would Weapon Shield be any different? It's just an evolution of FP10, which itself doesn't do particularly well at corrosion prevention or wear prevention. It does do exceptionally well on the falex tests, which looks impressive, but even that doesn't seem to translate back down to the extreme environment that you are going to use the lubricant in.

I feel like this is the X-Files and you've got that poster on your wall "I want to believe." I'm just not sure any oil based lubricant is going to survive 1500 rounds of suppressed fire. I'd still carry an oiler and just take 10 seconds to add a few drops every 300 to 500 rounds.

Also, G96 smells like cinnamon too.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Ws6
Tell me the story again about how Weapon Shield somehow magically fixed your bolt guns....


Look no mind, learn to read the written word. Seeing as you can't, I'll spell it out for you..... Again. I never claimed any "magic" with ANY lubricant. I simply stated that after using Weapon Shield on the bolt lugs of three different bolt action rifles, all with the same ammunition, the bolts operated much easier on all of them. That's it. Period. Got it? I don't know why the Weapon Shield worked better than the other lubricants I was using. And I quite honestly could care less.

Stop trying to read what isn't there. All in some half assed, stupid, futile attempt to qualify all of your idiotic bull$h!t, that makes absolutely zero sense. And is some of the most nonsensical foolishness I've ever read. It's as if you're competing in a bull$h!t contest...... And winning! As Skeet said, you sound like a buffoon.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: 90crvtec
OK. So I just have this one question remaining.

You mentioned that you wanted to try Weapon Shield based on the EP relationship with the chamber and bolt lugs on the AR. I understand this and it makes sense to me from that standpoint.

But that Canadian test (thanks for the link, already had a copy from years ago) rightly proves that the falex wear tests touted by some lubricant manufacturers don't seem to translate to reduced wear in firearms.

Why would Weapon Shield be any different? It's just an evolution of FP10, which itself doesn't do particularly well at corrosion prevention or wear prevention. It does do exceptionally well on the falex tests, which looks impressive, but even that doesn't seem to translate back down to the extreme environment that you are going to use the lubricant in.

I feel like this is the X-Files and you've got that poster on your wall "I want to believe." I'm just not sure any oil based lubricant is going to survive 1500 rounds of suppressed fire. I'd still carry an oiler and just take 10 seconds to add a few drops every 300 to 500 rounds.

Also, G96 smells like cinnamon too.

I try different things, and note trends. I was looking at weaponshield due to my friendship with George, as well as the EP ad pack it has. It has a legit EP ad pack. I was simply curious if anything else did, in the firearm industry, and maybe even surpassed it.

Weaponshield has variable performance, but generally does pretty well in corrosion tests.

The biggest variance I have seen to date is FIREClean. If you place something treated by FIREClean outside, or in the shower, or whatever, it protects VERY WELL...except where water stays IN CONTACT with the item. There, it offers almost literally zero protection. now, you can have drops of water sit and evaporate from the metal, and not corrode, but say you have a wet paper-towel draped over the item...it's going to rust in less than an hour. No idea why, but it is extremely fickle like that.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Skeet6
This is complete and utter fanboyism nonsense. As one who usually shoots out at least one barrel a year in competition, who shoots more in a year than most casual enthusiasts ever will, I can tell you as a highpower competitor ANYTHING works in an AR - or any other service rifle for that matter - from the cheapest dollar store motor oil to CLP to USGI "grease, rifle" to Mobil 1 grease - when applied properly.

If you think you need to study this, and show the results of your "studies" and get on the bandwagon of the latest thing, go ahead and do so, but you sound like a buffoon when you say that it's T H A T M U C H better.

I can assure you on the firing line at the National Matches at Camp Perry 95% of those ARs are running CLP or Mobil 1, which many competitors use and swear by. And yeah, I travel this country shooting the AR and the M1 and the M14 in competition, and use a combo of M1 or CLP as oil and M1 grease on all, usually.

You know what lube works best?? THE ONE YOU USE PROPERLY!!

ANY lube... applied when needed, where needed will work, and work well. I even like the "Red oil" mix, I made a gallon or so, it works well, too - and is CHEEEEP. Remember, the key is actually applying properly, replacing when needed, and cleaning. The rest is just marketing hype and fanboy bullhockey.

Used motor oil (any grade) would far exceed the needs of the AR... run it wet and stop the "scientific" nonsense.
Mike B


Very well said!

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: billt460


Good God can you make something out of nothing. Weapon Shield simply solved an issue that other lubricants would not and did not. That's it. Why do you have to over analyze everything? What difference does it make what caused the condition? The Weapon Shield solved it. End of problem. End of story. Jesus! You could over complicate a cup of coffee.


Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Skeet6
This is complete and utter fanboyism nonsense. As one who usually shoots out at least one barrel a year in competition, who shoots more in a year than most casual enthusiasts ever will, I can tell you as a highpower competitor ANYTHING works in an AR - or any other service rifle for that matter - from the cheapest dollar store motor oil to CLP to USGI "grease, rifle" to Mobil 1 grease - when applied properly.

If you think you need to study this, and show the results of your "studies" and get on the bandwagon of the latest thing, go ahead and do so, but you sound like a buffoon when you say that it's T H A T M U C H better.

I can assure you on the firing line at the National Matches at Camp Perry 95% of those ARs are running CLP or Mobil 1, which many competitors use and swear by. And yeah, I travel this country shooting the AR and the M1 and the M14 in competition, and use a combo of M1 or CLP as oil and M1 grease on all, usually.

You know what lube works best?? THE ONE YOU USE PROPERLY!!

ANY lube... applied when needed, where needed will work, and work well. I even like the "Red oil" mix, I made a gallon or so, it works well, too - and is CHEEEEP. Remember, the key is actually applying properly, replacing when needed, and cleaning. The rest is just marketing hype and fanboy bullhockey.

Used motor oil (any grade) would far exceed the needs of the AR... run it wet and stop the "scientific" nonsense.
Mike B


Very well said!


I literally LOL'ed at this. You're quite obviously a huge fanboy for Weaponshield...and I think it's a good product, and I've known George for years---he's a great guy. But your slobbering to attack anything, and any experience, that isn't WS is absurd and very hypocritical, given your other posts.

 

[90crvtec]

Originally Posted By: Skeet6
As one who usually shoots out at least one barrel a year in competition, who shoots more in a year than most casual enthusiasts ever will.....

I thought this was a great point and it's been on my mind too. The AR will usually shoot out a barrel before it begins to show failure points on a bolt. Especially when using bi-metal jacketed ammo like Wolf. I agree that just applying ANY lubricant at consistent intervals is enough to keep the AR functioning.

I don't shoot high volume rifles but I shoot A LOT of pistol ammunition. I like to play in USPSA production and Limited 10. I also have the benefit of a backyard range so I get weekend practice whenever I want. If I shoot less than 15k rounds, that's a slow year for me. I've done my own non-scientific experiments using my own pistols and I honestly can't tell a difference. They all work. This actually convinced me to quit buying gun specific lubes unless they were already cheap and readily available (like BF CLP or G96). I just want something that I can find easily when I need it, offers good corrosion protection, and won't oxidize/gum up over time. Just about any old CLP does all this in spades and doesn't break the bank. They key is to keep the gun lubricated, everything I have used so far all needs to be re-applied at some point, nothing lasts forever.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Ws6
You're quite obviously a huge fanboy for Weaponshield...


Why am I a "fanboy"? Because I used a product and found that it worked better than others I've tried for a certain application? I don't give a $h!t if you use Weapon Shield or not. Or your buddy, buddy relationship with Fennel or anyone else for that matter. It doesn't matter to me in the least. I simply reported what results I got by using it, and promptly got attacked by you two complete F'ing a$$ holes, for simply saying I found it worked better than what I was using before. Then you started giving cooking lessons to run interference for all the silly bull$h!t you've been posting. As the saying goes, when you find yourself in a hole.... Stop digging.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
You're quite obviously a huge fanboy for Weaponshield...


Why am I a "fanboy"? Because I used a product and found that it worked better than others I've tried for a certain application? I don't give a $h!t if you use Weapon Shield or not. Or your buddy, buddy relationship with Fennel or anyone else for that matter. It doesn't matter to me in the least. I simply reported what results I got by using it, and promptly got attacked by you two complete F'ing a$$ holes, for simply saying I found it worked better than what I was using before. Then you started giving cooking lessons to run interference for all the silly bull$h!t you've been posting. As the saying goes, when you find yourself in a hole.... Stop digging.


You got mad at someone else calling you out, so you attacked me for posting my personal experiences in retaliation...and now you're acting like I did something to you, and I'm the bad guy, and your personal stories are better than everyone else's.Did I miss anything?

 

[90crvtec]

Originally Posted By: Ws6
I try different things, and note trends. I was looking at weaponshield due to my friendship with George, as well as the EP ad pack it has. It has a legit EP ad pack. I was simply curious if anything else did, in the firearm industry, and maybe even surpassed it.

The original question was if we had seen anything that prevents wear better than Weapon Shield.

Have you been able to use Weapon Shield back to back with another brand? Did you notice any differences?

I'm starting to get confused because some of your experiences seem like they are purely corrosion tests. Others seem to show extreme use in a carbon fouled environment. Were you able to run each of these lubricants through the gun in a similar fashion? So far it seems like Weapon Shield "does OK" but feels gritty after carbon gets introduced, does it still protect better than Brand X once it becomes carbon fouled?

The way I'm reading all of your posts, it seems like Weapon Shield worked just like everything else. So I'm more focused on the wear prevention aspect, did it seem to protect better even if it didn't keep the action cycling smoothly?

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: 90crvtec
Originally Posted By: Ws6
I try different things, and note trends. I was looking at weaponshield due to my friendship with George, as well as the EP ad pack it has. It has a legit EP ad pack. I was simply curious if anything else did, in the firearm industry, and maybe even surpassed it.

The original question was if we had seen anything that prevents wear better than Weapon Shield.

Have you been able to use Weapon Shield back to back with another brand? Did you notice any differences?

I did not note any wear differences, only differences in cleaning, and how the weapon cycled/felt when charged.

I'm starting to get confused because some of your experiences seem like they are purely corrosion tests. Others seem to show extreme use in a carbon fouled environment. Were you able to run each of these lubricants through the gun in a similar fashion? So far it seems like Weapon Shield "does OK" but feels gritty after carbon gets introduced, does it still protect better than Brand X once it becomes carbon fouled?

The way I'm reading all of your posts, it seems like Weapon Shield worked just like everything else. So I'm more focused on the wear prevention aspect, did it seem to protect better even if it didn't keep the action cycling smoothly?


It's really hard to quantify wear, but I am considering buying several Colt cam-pins, and using each under identical circumstances, in the same bolt and carrier, and then comparing them. That is the cheapest/best way I have come up with so far.

MPRO7 LPX was used previously for 1700+ rounds unsuppressed, and NO rust occurred. This was using PMC 5.56 XTAC ammo. I have a suspicion that Wolf is slightly corrosive, regardless of their claims.

Some of my tests are "shower tests" on allen wrenches, or nails out in the rain, and some of them are hard-use such as lubing a weapon before a 3 day class, and not touching it until I get home.

Froglube is the only other lube I have had that allowed rust on a weapon. I shot 100 rounds, suppressed, using MK318 MOD 0 SOST, and took the rifle to a friend's house and cleaned it. Everything was still wet from the Froglube, so I just wiped it down with a microfiber cloth, leaving a "sheen" on the bolt/carrier/etc. 2 days later, when I got home, I noted orange rust-spots on the bolt tail. That, and gumming up caused me to dump Froglube, much as the gumming up issue caused me to dump Fireclean, and refuse to use any other bio-lubes, no-matter how awesome they may function short-term. Rand CLP had similar results with the gumming, fwiw.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: 90crvtec
Have you been able to use Weapon Shield back to back with another brand? Did you notice any differences? So far it seems like Weapon Shield "does OK" but feels gritty after carbon gets introduced, does it still protect better than Brand X once it becomes carbon fouled?

The way I'm reading all of your posts, it seems like Weapon Shield worked just like everything else. So I'm more focused on the wear prevention aspect, did it seem to protect better even if it didn't keep the action cycling smoothly?


This is getting to be a bigger joke with every post. For God's sakes if you're so interested in it, why the he!! don't you just BUY SOME OF IT AND TRY IT? I know that would be applying common sense, (a commodity that has certainly been in very short supply in your posts thus far). Instead, you turn around and criticize someone who has used it, and has reported good results. Instead of just buying it, AND ACTUALLY USING IT YOURSELF. You're one of these clowns that just likes to hear yourself talk.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: 90crvtec
Have you been able to use Weapon Shield back to back with another brand? Did you notice any differences? So far it seems like Weapon Shield "does OK" but feels gritty after carbon gets introduced, does it still protect better than Brand X once it becomes carbon fouled?

The way I'm reading all of your posts, it seems like Weapon Shield worked just like everything else. So I'm more focused on the wear prevention aspect, did it seem to protect better even if it didn't keep the action cycling smoothly?


This is getting to be a bigger joke with every post. For God's sakes if you're so interested in it, why the he!! don't you just BUY SOME OF IT AND TRY IT? I know that would be applying common sense, (a commodity that has certainly been in very short supply in your posts thus far). Instead, you turn around and criticize someone who has used it, and has reported good results. Instead of just buying it, AND ACTUALLY USING IT YOURSELF. You're one of these clowns that just likes to hear yourself talk.


Why are you so up in arms about Weaponshield? Do you get a kickback or something? You can't even stand to have people talk about other products without insulting them from a position of abject and complete ignorance. Wild stuff! [censored], I've been friends with George Fennell ever since he invented the stuff, and I'm not this rabid. I don't think you possess much objectivity. Retirement is treating you poorly. Get a hobby, or get more into the hobbies you have, or something.

 

[90crvtec]

Ws6, don't feed the troll. The guy is off the deep end and has resorted to name calling to try to make his point (there isn't one). Just let him be, he can't contribute anything else at this point. Just ignore him like I do and let him pound on his keyboard some more.

I can say for a thread about Weapon Shield, so far there's a lot of mediocrity. We have one post claiming that it will magically make a gun operate smoothly, even when the problem is obviously ammunition related.

We have other posts that say Weapon Shield performs somewhere between MPro LPX and Lucas Extreme Gun Oil. I do have some samples of Lucas Extreme Gun Oil that I picked up at a USPSA club and frankly, I don't find anything different about it in terms of lubricating a firearm. It does have a tackifier in it but it doesn't seem to stay on rails any better than regular old BF CLP and the Lucas stuff has an an odor to it, similar to gear oil. At least BF CLP is odorless.

I did run Lucas Extreme Gun Oil on my VP9 for 3000 rounds, I cleaned the gun approximately every 300 to 500 rounds, and re-applied the Lucas Extreme product at each cleaning. I did not notice increased wear, nor did the gun seem to function more smoothly. In fact, I didn't notice anything different other than the smell. For my use case, it was a whole bunch of 'meh.'

This doesn't exactly have me chomping at the bit to try the Weapon Shield stuff.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Ws6
Why are you so up in arms about Weaponshield? Do you get a kickback or something? You can't even stand to have people talk about other products without insulting them from a position of abject and complete ignorance. Wild stuff! [censored], I've been friends with George Fennell ever since he invented the stuff, and I'm not this rabid.


You two nit wits are the ones carrying on about it like broken records. I bought it, used it, and liked it. Done amen. End of story. You two idiots are acting as if it's something you have to save up for to buy and try. You're both acting like you're waiting for your daddy to give you your allowance so you can run to the store and try it.

In the mean time stick with your Canola Oil. I'm glad it's working for you.... Both in the shower, and outside. Just be sure to stay aware of it's "Organic failure potential".. Talk about complete, total bull$h!t:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=organic+failure+potential

 

[kschachn]

Wow this thread is worse than a thick/thin argument in the oil sections.

You remind me of my neighbor who gets together on Saturday with his buddies and they argue about who has the biggest mirrors on their pickup.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Wondering if Thousand Island dressing would be good - LoL. Good old "Sheath" by Birchwood or RemOil has always worked good for me.
I remember the days of Rem Oil. I had a lot of rusted firearms, and it would only carry an AR through 2-300 rounds before it became very sluggish.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Why are you so up in arms about Weaponshield? Do you get a kickback or something? You can't even stand to have people talk about other products without insulting them from a position of abject and complete ignorance. Wild stuff! [censored], I've been friends with George Fennell ever since he invented the stuff, and I'm not this rabid.


You two nit wits are the ones carrying on about it like broken records. I bought it, used it, and liked it. Done amen. End of story. You two idiots are acting as if it's something you have to save up for to buy and try. You're both acting like you're waiting for your daddy to give you your allowance so you can run to the store and try it.

In the mean time stick with your Canola Oil. I'm glad it's working for you.... Both in the shower, and outside. Just be sure to stay aware of it's "Organic failure potential".. Talk about complete, total bull$h!t:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=organic+failure+potential


I can't take you seriously. Is this your typical MO on this board?