The orange/brownish color is varnish just as Trav stated. There appears to be a little sludge in some spots on top of it, which should wipe off.
Varnish in Honda 3.5 VTEC
- Thread starter Trav
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Yes it is mostly varnish.There is some slight sludge and deposits for sure but the reddish brown areas are pure varnish.
Its also in the pores of the metal under the black stuff,the black stuff wipes away the varnish does not.
Its also in the pores of the metal under the black stuff,the black stuff wipes away the varnish does not.
Anytime I saw sludge there was a nice coat of varnish under it, which wouldn't wipe off. As I mentioned above, varnish is almost like a bonding primer that sludge builds up on top of.
Trav what were your observations regarding sludge and varnish? Were they similar to mine? Thanks!
Trav what were your observations regarding sludge and varnish? Were they similar to mine? Thanks!
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Anytime I saw sludge there was a nice coat of varnish under it, which wouldn't wipe off. As I mentioned above, varnish is almost like a bonding primer that sludge builds up on top of.
+1 or varnish is the product of the beginning of neglect and then you get sludge. but where there is sludge there is varnish.
im not sure but i do know they are brothers
Anytime I saw sludge there was a nice coat of varnish under it, which wouldn't wipe off. As I mentioned above, varnish is almost like a bonding primer that sludge builds up on top of.
+1 or varnish is the product of the beginning of neglect and then you get sludge. but where there is sludge there is varnish.
im not sure but i do know they are brothers
I've seen varnish w/o sludge, but if given enough time sludge will start to build on top of it. Varnish can plug up small passage ways w/o sludge being present too.
Originally Posted By: bigmike
I'm just wondering would consistently running MMO the complete OCI with the 5w30 be of any help in this situation?
I think so, or even a pint for the last 1000 miles of the OCI would probably do it. As long as it was done on a consistant basis. JMO
I'm just wondering would consistently running MMO the complete OCI with the 5w30 be of any help in this situation?
I think so, or even a pint for the last 1000 miles of the OCI would probably do it. As long as it was done on a consistant basis. JMO
Trav,
Are you sure about the 5K synthetic OCI? Is there any possibility that owner was charged for synthetic but the vehicle got regular oil? I am having hard time believing that a well maintained vehicle with 5K synthetic OCI having enough of varnish/sludge to impair its operation even with soccer mom operations. I mean all of these vans are the model soccer mom vans!
- Vikas
Are you sure about the 5K synthetic OCI? Is there any possibility that owner was charged for synthetic but the vehicle got regular oil? I am having hard time believing that a well maintained vehicle with 5K synthetic OCI having enough of varnish/sludge to impair its operation even with soccer mom operations. I mean all of these vans are the model soccer mom vans!
- Vikas
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Originally Posted By: Vikas
Trav,
Are you sure about the 5K synthetic OCI? Is there any possibility that owner was charged for synthetic but the vehicle got regular oil? I am having hard time believing that a well maintained vehicle with 5K synthetic OCI having enough of varnish/sludge to impair its operation even with soccer mom operations. I mean all of these vans are the model soccer mom vans!
- Vikas
7500 miles:
Originally Posted By: Trav
This engine had documented 7500 mi OCI with a major brand of synthetic oil, (i will not disclose the brand as it maybe taken as a bash,it is not.The issue here is with the engine design)The PCV had been serviced.
Trav,
Are you sure about the 5K synthetic OCI? Is there any possibility that owner was charged for synthetic but the vehicle got regular oil? I am having hard time believing that a well maintained vehicle with 5K synthetic OCI having enough of varnish/sludge to impair its operation even with soccer mom operations. I mean all of these vans are the model soccer mom vans!
- Vikas
7500 miles:
Originally Posted By: Trav
This engine had documented 7500 mi OCI with a major brand of synthetic oil, (i will not disclose the brand as it maybe taken as a bash,it is not.The issue here is with the engine design)The PCV had been serviced.
As i said this is the iVTEC,the normal VTEC would not run into the same noticeable running issues.
I am thinking out loud that running on 3 cylinders with the whole rear bank just hanging around for the ride much of the time may have something to do with it.
You know the area in Ma i am talking about,it is real easy to get on 119 or 111 and just drive at 40 MPH right out of the driveway.I have to question if the rear cylinders are actually getting up to true operating temps (not just coolant temp) some of the time and the front ones really working hard and what effect that would have on the oil.As i said just out loud thinking i have no idea really.
I did note there is a significant difference in the deposits on the front and rear bank valve train area.
Sludge is minor in this engine but serious sludge in the Sienna 3.0 some Chrysler and VW engines was very common some years with 7500 OCI even with synthetic oil.Toyota even started mandating through TSB shorter OCI with full synthetic on some problem engines.
The issue here is not whether its a soccer mom van or not its just an issue that took years and miles to rear its ugly head.
The engine is a very good engine,this is a small issue that is easily taken care of and easily prevented.This is not a Honda or oil bashing thread strictly photo documentation of an issue with a particular engine driven under particular conditions that i can personal attest to the service intervals from day 1.
I did not service on the van the owner did and he is very maintenance minded and has a stash that would make any BITOG member proud.
Quote:
I mean all of these vans are the model soccer mom vans!
Can you believe they used a electric sliding door mechanism this flimsy on a van for transporting kids?
After rebuilding so many of these things that i do them at night wearing welding goggles in a dark garages i cant LOL.
I am thinking out loud that running on 3 cylinders with the whole rear bank just hanging around for the ride much of the time may have something to do with it.
You know the area in Ma i am talking about,it is real easy to get on 119 or 111 and just drive at 40 MPH right out of the driveway.I have to question if the rear cylinders are actually getting up to true operating temps (not just coolant temp) some of the time and the front ones really working hard and what effect that would have on the oil.As i said just out loud thinking i have no idea really.
I did note there is a significant difference in the deposits on the front and rear bank valve train area.
Sludge is minor in this engine but serious sludge in the Sienna 3.0 some Chrysler and VW engines was very common some years with 7500 OCI even with synthetic oil.Toyota even started mandating through TSB shorter OCI with full synthetic on some problem engines.
The issue here is not whether its a soccer mom van or not its just an issue that took years and miles to rear its ugly head.
The engine is a very good engine,this is a small issue that is easily taken care of and easily prevented.This is not a Honda or oil bashing thread strictly photo documentation of an issue with a particular engine driven under particular conditions that i can personal attest to the service intervals from day 1.
I did not service on the van the owner did and he is very maintenance minded and has a stash that would make any BITOG member proud.
Quote:
I mean all of these vans are the model soccer mom vans!
Can you believe they used a electric sliding door mechanism this flimsy on a van for transporting kids?
After rebuilding so many of these things that i do them at night wearing welding goggles in a dark garages i cant LOL.
I would say those pics look vary similar to my 1.6L VTEC at three month oil change interval(s) with a major conventional motor oil brand; varnish, deposits, etc.
Certainly not a candidate for extended drains. A TSB should be issued telling people 4 month 4000 mile synthetic oil OCI's might be the ticket, or something along those lines. I don't care what oil was used or how good the oil is. From the pictures it is obvious 7500 mile OCIs with synthetic oil is not cutting it. JMO
I have a 03 Acura MDX(132K miles) with the V6 and have always changed at 4K miles or less. The last 50K miles, I have always used a syn oil(Mobil 1, Ultra, Edge and I do not see any varnish inside the oil fill hole.
I keep my wifes vehicles a long time and always figured that spending a little extra on oil changes/all fluids, etc will cut down the chance of any mechanical issues. Also, doing a few highway drives a week also helps. Pay me now or pay me later, right guys....
I keep my wifes vehicles a long time and always figured that spending a little extra on oil changes/all fluids, etc will cut down the chance of any mechanical issues. Also, doing a few highway drives a week also helps. Pay me now or pay me later, right guys....
I have the same engine in my (now EX) wife's 2006 Saturn VUE. It got a steady diet of Motorcraft semi-syn 5W-20 since new and with the exception of the first oil change (1000 miles) I followed the OLM. That was usually about 6000-6500 miles. It now has about 65000 miles on it and it appears to be spotless when I peek into the oil fill hole with a flashlight.
Best,
Best,
Hard to believe that synthetic oil after only 7,500 miles would cause this.
Does the van take any highway trips at all or all city driving during the entire 7,500 miles?
City stop and go driving conditions are the worst, esp today with the roads completely full of cars and traffic everywhere.
Does the van take any highway trips at all or all city driving during the entire 7,500 miles?
City stop and go driving conditions are the worst, esp today with the roads completely full of cars and traffic everywhere.
03 Acura MDX with 133K miles. Well I took a closer look and it is goldish/ light brown inside the fill hole. Something tells me that these engines may eventually sludge up if you run longer(7500+) OCI's. I have been 4-5K OCI's with full syn oils since new and it does not look like new inside the fill cap. I will see if one dose of kreen will clean it up.
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It's very possible the oil use was a group III oil. I don't want to get into the whole base oil debate, but there is a difference when it comes to more extreme conditions and abusive engines.
I would say 80%-90% of my Acura's miles were highway. Mobil 1, Amsoil 7500(I think that was what it was) was used early on, then switched to Ultra and then Edge. All good oils so kind of surprised with my results.
Thats the same color varnish I saw in my van with an 5000 km OCI with PU.
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