$2.99-$3.99 depending where purchased .
To dope GF-4's " might" be just what the Doctor ordered in an affordable OTC additive .
3 treats per 15ounce bottle most engines
VALVOLINE SYNPOWER OIL TREATMENT from Blackstone Labs
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To dope GF-4's " might" be just what the Doctor ordered in an affordable OTC additive .
3 treats per 15ounce bottle most engines
edvanp - I used the Maxlife Engine Protector treatment too. I used it with Durablend oil , i'll look forward to seeing what your UOA looks like with Synpower.
Well said. With the numbers above a whole bottle would be overkill. Strange, Valvoline recommends you dump the whole bottle in.quote:
Originally posted by Motorbike:
Agree. I would use this stuff to enhance a motor oil .... not reformulate it
As for viscosity, I have my doubts a whole bottle would take you out of grade. This stuff is similar thickness to the Maxlife Engine Protector. I dumped 12 oz MELP in my pickup and it did not raise the oil pressure. Would think a significant viscosity increase would show in oil pressure.
MolaKule
Staff member
Point taken.
Here is the deal.
The base or carrier is a ethylene/propylene copolymer VII (OCP) or thickerner with some PAO and surfactant. The molecular backbone of this polymer can unzip under extreme pressures and heat and leave unuseable molecules floating around that has the potential to turn into sludge.
You don't need more than about 1200 ppm of ZDDP for proper cam lobe and follower AW protection; any more of this stuff and the wear actually goes up, not down.
This why I caution not to overuse these third-party OTC additives. A little bit more of this stuff does NOT result in more protection, period.
Use them sparingly and use a UOA regime to keep track of wear and viscosity. Contact Dyson Analysis for a personal analysis of your situation when using ANY additives.
Here is the deal.
The base or carrier is a ethylene/propylene copolymer VII (OCP) or thickerner with some PAO and surfactant. The molecular backbone of this polymer can unzip under extreme pressures and heat and leave unuseable molecules floating around that has the potential to turn into sludge.
You don't need more than about 1200 ppm of ZDDP for proper cam lobe and follower AW protection; any more of this stuff and the wear actually goes up, not down.
This why I caution not to overuse these third-party OTC additives. A little bit more of this stuff does NOT result in more protection, period.
Use them sparingly and use a UOA regime to keep track of wear and viscosity. Contact Dyson Analysis for a personal analysis of your situation when using ANY additives.
One ounce per quart should put an SM oils ZDDP levels above that of an SL oil. So with three OCI treatments per bottle of Synpower OT, it is a super deal, especially if I can find those $2.99 deals Motorbike mentioned.
Now I just have to restrain (or train) myself:
More is better, a lot more is not!
A little more is better, a lot more is not!
A tad more is better, just not too much!
.
.
.
Just a little bit, no more!
Now I just have to restrain (or train) myself:
More is better, a lot more is not!
A little more is better, a lot more is not!
A tad more is better, just not too much!
.
.
.
Just a little bit, no more!
MolaKule
Staff member
Most likely the additive is not made by Valvoline but by a third party.
There is nothing wrong with the base as long as you:
1. Don't use too much of it,
2. you don't let it go so long as to shear it and turn into Patman's favorite Rock Band.
The PAO simply "smooths" the OCP to make it less stringy.
IMHO, The AW and FM additive package is the only "value-added" constituent.
Metallica ?
Would this stuff be of any benefit in a lawn mower with one quart oil capacity and a splash oil lube system? Just trying to give my overworked mowers some help, so I am curious.
I think they might be using Enhanced Polyisobutylenes and here might be the key to producing a product w/o possible sludging issues of regular polymeric thickeners.
From the website below .
Because we have the unique ability to control the polymerization process we are developing oligomeric products containing defined ratios of C16/C20/C20+.
Here is some info , click on Highly Reactive but actually it might be best to first read about the Conventional listed to learn why the HR's are the ticket .
http://www.txpetrochem.com/p/poly.htm
This particular Valvoline product blew away STP and it's ordinary thickener in a TFOUT shootout and the above is my best guess as to the reason it did and why the Maxlife additve was not tested in this way .
BTW ,the above company is not the only one's producing synthetic thickeners .
From the website below .
Because we have the unique ability to control the polymerization process we are developing oligomeric products containing defined ratios of C16/C20/C20+.
Here is some info , click on Highly Reactive but actually it might be best to first read about the Conventional listed to learn why the HR's are the ticket .
http://www.txpetrochem.com/p/poly.htm
This particular Valvoline product blew away STP and it's ordinary thickener in a TFOUT shootout and the above is my best guess as to the reason it did and why the Maxlife additve was not tested in this way .
BTW ,the above company is not the only one's producing synthetic thickeners .
Why does this one have so much moly
And this UOA doesnt?
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000224
And this UOA doesnt?
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000224
Blackstone does not test for Antimony . The lab I sent my VOA to does and look how much is in there .
This just one more additive that makes this product worth a look at . You cannot get Antimony in any additves other than the Schaeffers 132 and one particular Synthetic motor oil made in the USA that I know about .
I do not believe this type Antimony is of the same make-up as the type used in greases .
As for your moly question ,, who knows ?
Shaken or stirred
EDIT:
This Valvoline product was used with Mobil 0w-20 at miles I forget but the results were ...super!
The UOA is here somewhere and Fe was low , low as I remember . Both times I used it Fe was incredibly low compared to the intervals without this stuff in two engines here at home .
[ November 03, 2004, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]
I have a couple questions:
1- If this stuff is that thick is there a chance that it will settle out in the oil pan once the engine cools overnight? Or will it stay in suspension once warmed and mixed in the oil after a short run?
2- With this much ZDDP and with SM / GF4 oils lowering the amount of ZDDP out of fear of poisoning the cat will this increase your chance of ruining a cat? My cars don't use oil but I don't want to have to replace a cat anytime soon and I plan to get a lot of miles out of my current stable.
I wonder if it would be best to put this in some 100+ degree water to soften it and allow you to shake it up before adding to the crankcase???
1- If this stuff is that thick is there a chance that it will settle out in the oil pan once the engine cools overnight? Or will it stay in suspension once warmed and mixed in the oil after a short run?
2- With this much ZDDP and with SM / GF4 oils lowering the amount of ZDDP out of fear of poisoning the cat will this increase your chance of ruining a cat? My cars don't use oil but I don't want to have to replace a cat anytime soon and I plan to get a lot of miles out of my current stable.
I wonder if it would be best to put this in some 100+ degree water to soften it and allow you to shake it up before adding to the crankcase???
MolaKule
Staff member
Why?
Olefin copolymers of ethylene/propylene are used as VII ingredients in engine oils.
Polyisobutylenes are used in gear oils (as thickeners and VI improvers) in 2-cycle oils (to increase lubricity), and as tackifiers. The ethylene/propylene ratio determines it's viscosity and tackiness characteristics.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=21;t=000024
While isobutylenes and OCP's are both polymers and come from the same distillation stream (source is naptha and C4 cuts)), their chemistry(s) is quite different.
MolaKule
Staff member
1. Since it has an SUS vis of approx. 189, it would most likely thicken the oil over grade, and
2. raise the AW additives beyond what is really needed.
Remember, in the additive world, more is NOT better.
Agree. I would use this stuff to enhance a motor oil .... not reformulate it
On another note , depending how this stuff is blended before packaging I would advise to make certain it is shaken and mixed well .
Case in point .
The 132 Schaeffers when at the lower portion of a used bottle in the correct light when pouring more of a white substance can be seen in the stream than when the top portion or amount is partially used .
Whether this white substance falls out during storage or the product is blended in 3 parts I don't know but with the eye one can see the difference I speak of .
On another note , depending how this stuff is blended before packaging I would advise to make certain it is shaken and mixed well .
Case in point .
The 132 Schaeffers when at the lower portion of a used bottle in the correct light when pouring more of a white substance can be seen in the stream than when the top portion or amount is partially used .
Whether this white substance falls out during storage or the product is blended in 3 parts I don't know but with the eye one can see the difference I speak of .
Add some of this Valvoline to this 1.42 a quart groupII Motorcraft 15w-40 for the hard working engine and get some moly in the mix....
Boron-321
Silicon-5
Sodium-1
Calcium-2909
Magnesium-258
Phos-1138
Zinc-1388
TBN +12
Boron-321
Silicon-5
Sodium-1
Calcium-2909
Magnesium-258
Phos-1138
Zinc-1388
TBN +12
MolaKule
Staff member
BTW, it is difficult sometimes to keep all the isobutylenes and OPC stuff straight. Just to add to the confusion, they are both considered to be "aliphatics."
For greases, the form is usually another soluble form imbedded in isobutylenes or OCP's with other goodies.
You're right. For motor oils and gear lubes, the Antimony is SbDTC, a dithiocarbamate of Antimony, similar in chemical structure to the soluble moly version.
For greases, the form is usually another soluble form imbedded in isobutylenes or OCP's with other goodies.
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