Toyota V6 oil filter info
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The Fram uses the nubs or points on the end caps for centering the ADBV on the base. I am sure it works fine as designed in the lab. Since it is a free country to use what one wants, I like the other centering methods shown better.
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Much ado about nothing. It didnt leak and that is all that matters.
Well, this one did...otherwise I'd have had no reason to change it. This was out of the FRAM orange can filter removed from the 3.4L toyota mentioned in my first post. Complaint was loud knock on cold start...customer towed the car here because he was afraid parts would try to get out if he started it again. Less than 4000 miles on this oil change. ADBV material still nice and pliable. If it didn't rely on covering up each individual hole to work correctly, and instead was designed to seal around a perimeter larger than the PCD, it would have continued to work correctly until it became non-pliable.
Luckily I had a lousy WIX filter on hand with poor efficiency to install and fix the car.
Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
Much ado about nothing. It didnt leak and that is all that matters.
Well, this one did...otherwise I'd have had no reason to change it. This was out of the FRAM orange can filter removed from the 3.4L toyota mentioned in my first post. Complaint was loud knock on cold start...customer towed the car here because he was afraid parts would try to get out if he started it again. Less than 4000 miles on this oil change. ADBV material still nice and pliable. If it didn't rely on covering up each individual hole to work correctly, and instead was designed to seal around a perimeter larger than the PCD, it would have continued to work correctly until it became non-pliable.
Luckily I had a lousy WIX filter on hand with poor efficiency to install and fix the car.
Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
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This is one reason why I now use nothing but OEM filters on my Tacoma's 3.4, they may not be the most efficient, but they get the job done and obviously, Toyota trusts them and stands behind them. There's a good thread on TacomaWorld about comparing a bunch of aftermarket filters to the OEM Densos, and after pilfering through the hundreds of posts, it made a believer out of me!
Sorry to hear about the engine damage caused to your wife's 4.0, those are stout engines and don't break easily. Makes me wonder what other type of damage might've been done to it that's concealed from the naked eye. What are your plans to do with it now?
Here's the link to the TW thread on filters: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/toyota-oil-filter-made-in-thailand-vs-the-competition.123608/
Sorry to hear about the engine damage caused to your wife's 4.0, those are stout engines and don't break easily. Makes me wonder what other type of damage might've been done to it that's concealed from the naked eye. What are your plans to do with it now?
Here's the link to the TW thread on filters: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/toyota-oil-filter-made-in-thailand-vs-the-competition.123608/
Originally Posted By: jongies3
This is one reason why I now use nothing but OEM filters on my Tacoma's 3.4, they may not be the most efficient, but they get the job done and obviously, Toyota trusts them and stands behind them. There's a good thread on TacomaWorld about comparing a bunch of aftermarket filters to the OEM Densos, and after pilfering through the hundreds of posts, it made a believer out of me!
Sorry to hear about the engine damage caused to your wife's 4.0, those are stout engines and don't break easily. Makes me wonder what other type of damage might've been done to it that's concealed from the naked eye. What are your plans to do with it now?
Here's the link to the TW thread on filters: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/toyota-oil-filter-made-in-thailand-vs-the-competition.123608/
I pulled and rebuilt it. Momma is happy.
This is one reason why I now use nothing but OEM filters on my Tacoma's 3.4, they may not be the most efficient, but they get the job done and obviously, Toyota trusts them and stands behind them. There's a good thread on TacomaWorld about comparing a bunch of aftermarket filters to the OEM Densos, and after pilfering through the hundreds of posts, it made a believer out of me!
Sorry to hear about the engine damage caused to your wife's 4.0, those are stout engines and don't break easily. Makes me wonder what other type of damage might've been done to it that's concealed from the naked eye. What are your plans to do with it now?
Here's the link to the TW thread on filters: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/toyota-oil-filter-made-in-thailand-vs-the-competition.123608/
I pulled and rebuilt it. Momma is happy.
Originally Posted By: lbhsbz
Originally Posted By: jongies3
Sorry to hear about the engine damage caused to your wife's 4.0, those are stout engines and don't break easily. Makes me wonder what other type of damage might've been done to it that's concealed from the naked eye. What are your plans to do with it now?
I pulled and rebuilt it. Momma is happy.
Did you see any metal debris in the filter ... and what exactly was damaged in the engine? Got any photos of the bearings (damage?) and the measured clearances?
I wouldn't think an engine would lunch itself from just a leaky ADBV. I'm wondering if that cheap Pentius brand filter starved the engine of oil for some reason.
Originally Posted By: jongies3
Sorry to hear about the engine damage caused to your wife's 4.0, those are stout engines and don't break easily. Makes me wonder what other type of damage might've been done to it that's concealed from the naked eye. What are your plans to do with it now?
I pulled and rebuilt it. Momma is happy.
Did you see any metal debris in the filter ... and what exactly was damaged in the engine? Got any photos of the bearings (damage?) and the measured clearances?
I wouldn't think an engine would lunch itself from just a leaky ADBV. I'm wondering if that cheap Pentius brand filter starved the engine of oil for some reason.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I wouldn't think an engine would lunch itself from just a leaky ADBV.
I wouldn't either. The engines on my old LTD back in the day and the F-150 both originally did not call for a filter with an ABDV, and the FL1A eventually provided one, as an upsell option over the originally specified CFL1.
I wouldn't think an engine would lunch itself from just a leaky ADBV.
I wouldn't either. The engines on my old LTD back in the day and the F-150 both originally did not call for a filter with an ABDV, and the FL1A eventually provided one, as an upsell option over the originally specified CFL1.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I wouldn't think an engine would lunch itself from just a leaky ADBV.
I wouldn't either. The engines on my old LTD back in the day and the F-150 both originally did not call for a filter with an ABDV, and the FL1A eventually provided one, as an upsell option over the originally specified CFL1.
Was the filter on your old Ford mounted at the same level as the valve cover and upside down?
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I wouldn't think an engine would lunch itself from just a leaky ADBV.
I wouldn't either. The engines on my old LTD back in the day and the F-150 both originally did not call for a filter with an ABDV, and the FL1A eventually provided one, as an upsell option over the originally specified CFL1.
Was the filter on your old Ford mounted at the same level as the valve cover and upside down?
Originally Posted By: Motorking
lbhsbz said:
Of course every time the v6 is fitted with a new filter it is starting with a bone dry filter, and mine use to come up very fast one or two seconds. The times I got start up rattle it was longer and worse than dry filter fill, not the same sound, so maybe there is more to it. I remember cars that had no adbv too, or no oil filter, and in good shape with low miles. It was normal procedure to listen to the noise until the parts got their oil, hahaha
Originally Posted By: lbhsbz
Was the filter on your old Ford mounted at the same level as the valve cover and upside down?
Both were sideways and fairly high up. Does Toyota have a procedure to prime oil filters at oil change time to prevent these catastrophic dry starts? If a failed ADBV can lunch an engine, I'd hate to see what a new, dry filter could do.
Was the filter on your old Ford mounted at the same level as the valve cover and upside down?
Both were sideways and fairly high up. Does Toyota have a procedure to prime oil filters at oil change time to prevent these catastrophic dry starts? If a failed ADBV can lunch an engine, I'd hate to see what a new, dry filter could do.
Edit, this reply was to goodtimes last post...
That's what was strange...I'm used to hearing a few dull thuds on occasion upon the first start up with the new filter..most times its quiet. Oil can drain back through 2 channels...through the bearings, which is a given, and will happen...or back through the oil pump gears or whatever pump mechanism exists...which is usually a fairly tight interface, since after all...it has to act as a pump. So long as the pump stays primed..oil pressure will recover very quickly upon startup. If the oil pump loses prime, it takes a bit more time.
When I change a filter, the old one is removed and the new one screwed on...I thought about it for a bit, and it's rare that more than 20-30 seconds would lapse between removal and installation. Regardless as to whether or not the filter has air or oil in it, the ADBV (if it works right) will create an air lock in the system and prevent further drainback through the pump...much like holding your finger over the end of a straw and pulling it out of a glass of iced tea. The pump, in 20 or 30 seconds, shouldn't allow much oil past, so it should prime fairly instantaneously, and usually does.
Even with the [censored] filter on my 4runner, I could crank it and turn the key back to off before it fired, then on the second attempt to start, it would start with no noise. If I allowed it to start on the first attempt, it sounded like something wanted out.
That's what was strange...I'm used to hearing a few dull thuds on occasion upon the first start up with the new filter..most times its quiet. Oil can drain back through 2 channels...through the bearings, which is a given, and will happen...or back through the oil pump gears or whatever pump mechanism exists...which is usually a fairly tight interface, since after all...it has to act as a pump. So long as the pump stays primed..oil pressure will recover very quickly upon startup. If the oil pump loses prime, it takes a bit more time.
When I change a filter, the old one is removed and the new one screwed on...I thought about it for a bit, and it's rare that more than 20-30 seconds would lapse between removal and installation. Regardless as to whether or not the filter has air or oil in it, the ADBV (if it works right) will create an air lock in the system and prevent further drainback through the pump...much like holding your finger over the end of a straw and pulling it out of a glass of iced tea. The pump, in 20 or 30 seconds, shouldn't allow much oil past, so it should prime fairly instantaneously, and usually does.
Even with the [censored] filter on my 4runner, I could crank it and turn the key back to off before it fired, then on the second attempt to start, it would start with no noise. If I allowed it to start on the first attempt, it sounded like something wanted out.
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My 2005 Tacoma V6 never makes any start-up noises after changing the oil and filter (dry galleries), and with a dry filter on start-up. Even on the oil changes where I let the oil drain over night. Oil pressure light goes out within 3 seconds.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: lbhsbz
Was the filter on your old Ford mounted at the same level as the valve cover and upside down?
Both were sideways and fairly high up. Does Toyota have a procedure to prime oil filters at oil change time to prevent these catastrophic dry starts? If a failed ADBV can lunch an engine, I'd hate to see what a new, dry filter could do.
Nothing from Toyota about doing anything special during an oil and filter change.
Originally Posted By: lbhsbz
Was the filter on your old Ford mounted at the same level as the valve cover and upside down?
Both were sideways and fairly high up. Does Toyota have a procedure to prime oil filters at oil change time to prevent these catastrophic dry starts? If a failed ADBV can lunch an engine, I'd hate to see what a new, dry filter could do.
Nothing from Toyota about doing anything special during an oil and filter change.
Garek:
No, Toyota does not call out such a procedure.
A "dry start" during an oil change will happen once every OCI. Using 5000 miles OCIs, this might happen 40 times over a 200K mile period of time under normal conditions with most vehicles. This particular filter caused it to happen once every startup. Not only did I get no oil out of the filter when I removed it, it was very light weight. The next filter that went on was a Mobil 1...and it was driven for a day or so before I concluded that we now had a noise at higher RPM. When the Mobil 1 filter was removed after an hour or so of sitting, there was no drips...but it was heavy. When the M1 filter was cut open, the can was 1/2 or so full of oil. When the Pentius filter was removed and cut open under the same conditions, it was empty.
Since I've never (effectively) dry fired an engine 40-50 time in a row, I have no idea what I should expect. All I know is that there was no knock on startup previous to the use of the pentius filter, and there was definitely no knock at higher RPM previous to the use of the pentius filter, but there was during and afterwards. I can see a definite issue with the recovery of the static shape of the ADBV, and that fits the symptoms and the failure.
No, Toyota does not call out such a procedure.
A "dry start" during an oil change will happen once every OCI. Using 5000 miles OCIs, this might happen 40 times over a 200K mile period of time under normal conditions with most vehicles. This particular filter caused it to happen once every startup. Not only did I get no oil out of the filter when I removed it, it was very light weight. The next filter that went on was a Mobil 1...and it was driven for a day or so before I concluded that we now had a noise at higher RPM. When the Mobil 1 filter was removed after an hour or so of sitting, there was no drips...but it was heavy. When the M1 filter was cut open, the can was 1/2 or so full of oil. When the Pentius filter was removed and cut open under the same conditions, it was empty.
Since I've never (effectively) dry fired an engine 40-50 time in a row, I have no idea what I should expect. All I know is that there was no knock on startup previous to the use of the pentius filter, and there was definitely no knock at higher RPM previous to the use of the pentius filter, but there was during and afterwards. I can see a definite issue with the recovery of the static shape of the ADBV, and that fits the symptoms and the failure.
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
My 2005 Tacoma V6 never makes any start-up noises after changing the oil and filter (dry galleries), and with a dry filter on start-up. Even on the oil changes where I let the oil drain over night. Oil pressure light goes out within 3 seconds.
Neither did mine...I had an '05 X-runner until someone rear ended it in 2013. When I bought the truck, I bought a case of oil filters...IIRC they were referred to as a "resin element" I think?...sort of a "sintered" element rather than pleated fiber media. I can't remember...the last one was used 5 years ago. Never an issue, but also, not that many miles on it, although they weren't easy miles. My experiences were the same as those you described.
I've also had a '96 4runner for the last 7 years that was recently sold with over 250K miles on it...OE or WIX filters since I bought it at 165K, and never an oil related issue.
Maybe I'm just getting grumpy in my old age and tired of substandard junk.
My 2005 Tacoma V6 never makes any start-up noises after changing the oil and filter (dry galleries), and with a dry filter on start-up. Even on the oil changes where I let the oil drain over night. Oil pressure light goes out within 3 seconds.
Neither did mine...I had an '05 X-runner until someone rear ended it in 2013. When I bought the truck, I bought a case of oil filters...IIRC they were referred to as a "resin element" I think?...sort of a "sintered" element rather than pleated fiber media. I can't remember...the last one was used 5 years ago. Never an issue, but also, not that many miles on it, although they weren't easy miles. My experiences were the same as those you described.
I've also had a '96 4runner for the last 7 years that was recently sold with over 250K miles on it...OE or WIX filters since I bought it at 165K, and never an oil related issue.
Maybe I'm just getting grumpy in my old age and tired of substandard junk.
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So what engine damage did you find whey you rebuilt the engine? Might give a clue to the cause. As mentioned earlier, I highly doubt a few dozen start-ups with a drained oil filter blew up the engine. Thinking there might be more to it than just that.
bearing clearance was excessive. That's it. I put new bearings. Didn't touch the crank..it measured within spec. Due to the miles, and since the engine was on a stand, I put new pistons/rings since the skirt coating on the OE pistons, while still present, was worn.
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Originally Posted By: lbhsbz
bearing clearance was excessive. That's it. I put new bearings. Didn't touch the crank..it measured within spec. Due to the miles, and since the engine was on a stand, I put new pistons/rings since the skirt coating on the OE pistons, while still present, was worn.
Both rod and main bearings bad? Was there evidence of lack of lubrication or heat scoring, or where they just worn out from dirty oil?
bearing clearance was excessive. That's it. I put new bearings. Didn't touch the crank..it measured within spec. Due to the miles, and since the engine was on a stand, I put new pistons/rings since the skirt coating on the OE pistons, while still present, was worn.
Both rod and main bearings bad? Was there evidence of lack of lubrication or heat scoring, or where they just worn out from dirty oil?
Originally Posted By: lbhsbz
A "dry start" during an oil change will happen once every OCI. Using 5000 miles OCIs, this might happen 40 times over a 200K mile period of time under normal conditions with most vehicles. This particular filter caused it to happen once every startup. Not only did I get no oil out of the filter when I removed it, it was very light weight.
I'm certainly not disputing your symptoms. What I'm getting at, is, my old LTD, which did benefit from an ADBV, went its first 200,000 miles before being introduced to the innovation. It underwent many cold starts without a full filter, and a lot of them winter cold starts.
ADBVs certainly aren't useless, but I don't think we've ever been presented with any evidence in the slightest as to how much engine life they may add, or if they're just easier on the cardiac system of the person starting the vehicle. I like them, prefer to have them, and prefer the silicone ones, where feasible. But, in the grand scheme of it, how much does it really matter? I'd have an exceedingly hard time blaming a damaged engine on a non-functioning ADBV, given the propensity of the things to not be ideal. Unless a bunch of nitrile or silicone breaks off and gets pumped where it shouldn't be....
A "dry start" during an oil change will happen once every OCI. Using 5000 miles OCIs, this might happen 40 times over a 200K mile period of time under normal conditions with most vehicles. This particular filter caused it to happen once every startup. Not only did I get no oil out of the filter when I removed it, it was very light weight.
I'm certainly not disputing your symptoms. What I'm getting at, is, my old LTD, which did benefit from an ADBV, went its first 200,000 miles before being introduced to the innovation. It underwent many cold starts without a full filter, and a lot of them winter cold starts.
ADBVs certainly aren't useless, but I don't think we've ever been presented with any evidence in the slightest as to how much engine life they may add, or if they're just easier on the cardiac system of the person starting the vehicle. I like them, prefer to have them, and prefer the silicone ones, where feasible. But, in the grand scheme of it, how much does it really matter? I'd have an exceedingly hard time blaming a damaged engine on a non-functioning ADBV, given the propensity of the things to not be ideal. Unless a bunch of nitrile or silicone breaks off and gets pumped where it shouldn't be....
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