Tire Rotation

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Originally Posted By: Vikas
Costco; not only they refuse to put new tires on front during initial install, then even refuse to rotate them if the good tires end up in the front :-(


Yep, this is the new standard. I saw the poster at Tire Kingdom during a flat repair session.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Costco; not only they refuse to put new tires on front during initial install, then even refuse to rotate them if the good tires end up in the front :-(


Costco wouldn't install the brand of tires I wanted because my car came with v-rated OEM tires and the tires I wanted were down rated.
 
Originally Posted By: outoforder
Free rotations are nice, but my wife and I just moved out of state so I can't take my car to the original tire shop. Her tires are factory and the dealership charges $12 to rotate them... Thinking of buying my next set of tires from Walmart. Anyone have experience buying from them?


I'm not a WM lover, but they're close to my house. I paid $7.50 a tire for lifetime balance and rotate, and they've gone 103,000 so far. They usually come in and say "we don't think they need rotated, as the wear is perfectly even". I usually say lets do it anyway. I'll bet they cant wait to see these tires wear out.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Where do you get the tires? Around here, the shop refuses to put best tires in the front.


It's a good idea to put the best tires in the back, even on a front wheel drive. That being said, I use special snow tires on the front of my front wheel drive car but keep tires w/good tread on the back in the winter. I rotate every 10K miles and cross them front to back. Not saying I'm absolutely right about this, but have been doing it this way for 30 years w/o problems.
 
On my RWD vehicle, I like keeping the deepest tread set on the front for wet weather driving. The tires on the back still have legal tread on them and if I loose grip in snow, I simply engage the 4WD. It's a much better way of getting maximum life out of your tires.
 
This is what I go by. I printed a page and keep it in the garage. I use "A" and "C".
tire_rotation_abc.jpg
 
Always put the best tires on the rear of the vehicle, Front, rear or all wheel drive. If one loses control of a vehicle, most recovery techniques use the rear wheels to regain control. And with the worst tires on the front, if you overdrive the traction of the front tires, you have better tires on the rear to regain control. The NHTSA even has some videos on this somewhere.
 
Those videos are silly. Driving way beyond the limit and twitching at the wheel TRYING to break the back loose. Skill drivers would never push out that way. I've had car w/good geometry you could NOT get the end around even in snow.

I guarantee I could win a wet slalom and stop shorter with good tires on front vs rear.

It works even worse when you can't get moving in snow because your good tires are on the back...good advice for my mother-in-law.
 
I've never "X" crossed my tires. Always front to back. I remember being told when I was young that by "X" crossing a tire, it causes the belts to be pulled in different directions and could end up blowing a tire.
 
Re: best tires in back. I'd bet the shops insist on it for liability reasons. Industry standard for 2 better tires & 2 worse tires is best tires on rear(not for autocrossing etc but because a rear blowout is in general much more dangerous than a front blowout), and if the shop violates that rule(even at your request), and then you have a rear blowout & you(or your estate or heirs) sue them- see why they won't put the best tires on the front?

Rotation: by long experience & test, on front wheel drive, for a 4 tire(non-directional) single X rotation, I cross 'em *Away* from the drive(front) axle, & move the rears straight forward. Gives fewer & easier changes(think about it) for the tires to go through, & eliminated that first full tank(300-400 mile), 1.5-2 mpg reduction in gas mileage on the Neon.
wink.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: Tim H.
I've never "X" crossed my tires. Always front to back. I remember being told when I was young that by "X" crossing a tire, it causes the belts to be pulled in different directions and could end up blowing a tire.

I heard that too... decades ago. I believe it's now a myth.
 
Originally Posted By: ffhdriver
IIRC Tirerack even states that the newest tires should be on the back.


So what?

WalMart has actually reversed their policy in this matter.
 
Very interesting reading!

Kestas posted the correct way(s) to rotate non-directional tires, assuming that all tires are the same size.

Obviously, in cases where the front tires are smaller than the rears, you cannot swap front to back. As long as the tires are not directional, you should swap side to side in this situation.

There is no danger in X rotating radial tires. This is a myth. It is very advantageous, in fact, to use the tire such that it rolls in both directions. This evens out any heal-toe wear that can develop when a tire rolls in a single direction for it's entire life.

Heal-toe wear can cause increased tire noise (sounds like a bad wheel bearing sometimes) and an overall higher wear rate, resulting in shorter tread life. In extreme cases, it can even cause vibration felt in the steering wheel.

Tire shops are correct in putting new tires on the rear of the vehicle.

New tires generally offer better traction in slippery conditions. It is well known that understeer is a much safer and controllable situation than oversteer for the average driver. This is why vehicle manufacturers tend to design suspension components to bias the handling characteristics towards understeer. If the tire shops put higher traction tires on the front, the back end of the vehicle could come around (oversteer) and cause an accident. $$$ Lawsuit.

Tire shops are also correct(i.e. protecting themselves and the customer) in not installing a tire with a lower load rating than what original came on the vehicle. In many cases, the lower load rated tire may be able to handle the loads, but will require a higher inflation pressure than what is listed on vehicle placard in order to do so. Not a good situation for the average consumer. Underinflated, overloaded tires will fail.

This is a good time to remind everyone to check your tire pressures on a regular basis!! Running a tire low on air, even for a few miles, can cause permanent damage to the inside of the tire.
 
Originally Posted By: jjjxlr8
Very interesting reading!
Tire shops are correct in putting new tires on the rear of the vehicle.


Well thank goodness I have a tire shop that actually listens to what I want done. I have a RWD, 4WD SUV that accumulates nearly 40,000 miles per year. I have always put new tires on the front and older on the back to maximize the tire life. I don't rotate and commonly get 70-80K out of a set. I also like the fact of having deep tread on the front to remove rain water from the road. Since the rear tires follow very near the same path as the front tires, one could nearly run bald tires (but I definitely don't recommend that) on the back since the front tires are removing water from the road and creating a "path" for the rear ones to travel. If traction in snow becomes an issue, I just flip the 4WD on. Obviouisly things would be different with a FWD vehicle. As I said, I've been doing this for years with no problems. To each their own, I guess.
 
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Originally Posted By: Steve S
I don't rotate my tires so I'll replace only 2 at a time instead of all 4.

I want all four tires to have about identical tread depth for about identical traction.

My wife's cousin went cheap and put snows only on the front of her Acura one time. While turning she had to hit the brakes on ice to avoid another car and that FWD car became a pinwheel. Four snows would have allowed her to keep control (or much more control and no pinwheeling).

Tire rotation is only to equalize unequal wear. If the wear is equal, there is no need to rotate. When I put the 3-season (no such thing as all-season tires) back on in the Spring, I just look the the ones with either slightly more tread depth or more square outside shoulder and put those on the front. I don't care if I cross or not.

Years ago in the infancy of radial ply tires we were told to keep radials on the same side. Time and tires have changed; some memories haven't.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: ffhdriver
IIRC Tirerack even states that the newest tires should be on the back.


So what?

WalMart has actually reversed their policy in this matter.

Not really. They want the new ones on the back, but will put them up front if you sign a waiver.
 
Discont Tire (at least the Charlotte area stores) recommends front to back, X to front. They claim that cross rotation forgives a lot of sins. If you press their sales people for an opinion on directional tires, they don't like the fact that directionals can't be cross rotated.
 
Understand,but I ain't gonna rotate my own tires when it's free at Discount Tire. The torque wrench is set at 80 pounds and DT documents my compliance with the tire warranty. When the tires wear out early,and they will,DT checks their rotation records for me and pro rates the tires.
 
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