this month's AMSOIL magazine

[Artem]

Does it really matter THAT much who follows who? I mean seriously.

Amsoil clearly either

A: has a better product
B: is more ballsy hence the ridiculous 25-35k OCIs
C: more stupid because they THINK they have more balls hence the 25-35k intervals.

Mobil 1 is clearly

A: more careful about their product, hence 15k OCIs
B: don't have as much balls to provide a 25k+ OCI oil
C: Realized after YEARS of testing in all sorts of conditions that 25k+ OCIs for your ave Joe is just not possible with a 4 quart sump and a tiny oil filter.

I would gladly run back to back 15k OCIs with both M1 and Amsoil to see who makes the better product and whether at the end of the day, Amsoil has enough strength left to last another 10k worth.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Since Amosil is a blender their product can only be as good as what their suppliers are selling them. Do you think for a minute XOM is going to sell Amsoil something better than they use in their finished products?


Yes.

I don't know anything about the oil business, but I do know about manufacturers selling/distributing a finished product under their own brand, while at the same time doing contract builds for a "competitor". It's not uncommon at all for them to provide a higher quality product to their competitor/customer, if that's what they specify (and pay for!). It's not a charity, it's business.

There are two things to keep in mind:

-the guys at XOM responsible for selling base oils for contract work are not going to be the same guys working on the retail product division. They have there own agenda, which is to sell base stocks to blenders. I'm going to guess they don't care a lick what the guys in the retail end of the business are doing

-selling base oils to blenders, while lower margin, is certainly "easier" business. It's in XOM's best interest to keep the relationship going.

XOM definitely has a competitive advantage in pricing, since they're able to do a complete product in house. Heck, it may also be "better" oil than Amsoil (I have no idea--though I imagine the actual performance will be similar across similarly-priced products). But don't assume that just because they're "competitors" that they're selling them sub-standard stuff. Generally, it just doesn't seem to work that way, in my experience in other industries.

 

[TimVipond]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Have a look at XOM's quarterly report, then a look at Amsoil's. Tell me who the leader is. Remember Amsoil buys from XOM, its not the other way around. If you can prove otherwise post it.
AMSOIL is a private American family owned company and does not publish a public quarterly report. AMSOIL has said they have 80% of the extended interval oil market and that Mobil 1 EP has only 10%. So I guess that makes AMSOIL the leader in that market.

 

[demarpaint]

JOD-In my business it is exactly the opposite. Since no one has factual proof in the oil industry, this is all speculation. One thing that is a fact is XOM is truly a leader in the oil industry, and the balance sheet proves it. Like them or not.

Artem- I think Amsoil is more "ballsy", than XOM. Amsoil rolled the dice with the Honda and Toyota oil filters and lost. I think they might be setting themselves up for another loss with DI engines if they don't rethink how long you can run their oil in those applications. Even their SS application IMO is way too long! But that's a whole different topic. Keep posting those UOA reports and keep up the fine main't of your vehicles. From what I've learned from your reports is you can flip a coin and use either product with almost identical results. Thanks for posting!

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: TimVipond
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Have a look at XOM's quarterly report, then a look at Amsoil's. Tell me who the leader is. Remember Amsoil buys from XOM, its not the other way around. If you can prove otherwise post it.
AMSOIL is a private American family owned company and does not publish a public quarterly report. AMSOIL has said they have 80% of the extended interval oil market and that Mobil 1 EP has only 10%. So I guess that makes AMSOIL the leader in that market.


Amsoil doesn't post quarterly reports so they can say what ever they like. What they say means nothing, like ads, and hype from a salesman. Remember extended drain oil is a small segment of the oil market, and in the grand scheme of things is probably a tiny fraction of what is sold.

 

[TimVipond]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
. Amsoil rolled the dice with the Honda and Toyota oil filters and lost.
What did AMSOIL lose? AMSOIL sell lots of Honda and Toyota oil filters. Does someone make longer extended oil change filters with better filtration than AMSOIL? Seems like AMSOIL leads here again, with XOM following.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: TimVipond
Does someone make longer extended oil change filters with better filtration than AMSOIL?


No why would they? It's already known thanks to Amsoil that extended drain filters for those vehicles is a bad idea.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: TimVipond
AMSOIL has said they have 80% of the extended interval oil market and that Mobil 1 EP has only 10%. So I guess that makes AMSOIL the leader in that market.

And were supposed to just go on that?

 

[TimVipond]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: TimVipond
Does someone make longer extended oil change filters with better filtration than AMSOIL?


No why would they? It's already known thanks to Amsoil that extended drain filters for those vehicles is a bad idea.

Maybe the others can't or don't want to? I don't know. But AMSOIL sure makes and sells a lot of them for Hondas and Toyotas. For up to 15,000 severe service miles up to 1 year. I use them on my Honda and other vehicles and equipment.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: TimVipond
AMSOIL has said they have 80% of the extended interval oil market and that Mobil 1 EP has only 10%. So I guess that makes AMSOIL the leader in that market.

And were supposed to just go on that?


LOL........But Amsoil said.....................

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: TimVipond
Does someone make longer extended oil change filters with better filtration than AMSOIL? Seems like AMSOIL leads here again, with XOM following.

Didn't someone here post a particle count test a wile back and the M1 lead the way?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: TimVipond
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: TimVipond
Does someone make longer extended oil change filters with better filtration than AMSOIL?


No why would they? It's already known thanks to Amsoil that extended drain filters for those vehicles is a bad idea.

Maybe the others can't or don't want to? I don't know. But AMSOIL sure makes and sells a lot of them for Hondas and Toyotas. For up to 15,000 severe service miles up to 1 year. I use them on my Honda and other vehicles and equipment.


Didn't they recently shortened the service life to 15,000 miles or 1 year? They did because they had problems......No one is perfect!

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: TimVipond
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: TimVipond
Does someone make longer extended oil change filters with better filtration than AMSOIL?


No why would they? It's already known thanks to Amsoil that extended drain filters for those vehicles is a bad idea.

Maybe the others can't or don't want to? I don't know. But AMSOIL sure makes and sells a lot of them for Hondas and Toyotas. For up to 15,000 severe service miles up to 1 year. I use them on my Honda and other vehicles and equipment.


Didn't they recently shortened the service life to 15,000 miles or 1 year? They did because they had problems......No one is perfect!

Yes, i would never do there OCI claims,15K doable but 25? Yikes

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint


Artem- I think Amsoil is more "ballsy", than XOM. Amsoil rolled the dice with the Honda and Toyota oil filters and lost. I think they might be setting themselves up for another loss with DI engines if they don't rethink how long you can run their oil in those applications. Even their SS application IMO is way too long! But that's a whole different topic. Keep posting those UOA reports and keep up the fine main't of your vehicles. From what I've learned from your reports is you can flip a coin and use either product with almost identical results. Thanks for posting!



Thanks man. Glad to see that my efforts are appreciated. I'll continue to do back to back analysis of M1 and Amsoil as i keep crawling up the extended drain ladder to see who reigns supreme at the end of the day.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: TimVipond
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: TimVipond
Does someone make longer extended oil change filters with better filtration than AMSOIL?


No why would they? It's already known thanks to Amsoil that extended drain filters for those vehicles is a bad idea.

Maybe the others can't or don't want to? I don't know. But AMSOIL sure makes and sells a lot of them for Hondas and Toyotas. For up to 15,000 severe service miles up to 1 year. I use them on my Honda and other vehicles and equipment.


Didn't they recently shortened the service life to 15,000 miles or 1 year? They did because they had problems......No one is perfect!


Just a few specific oil filters, not the actual oil itself.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: demarpaint


Artem- I think Amsoil is more "ballsy", than XOM. Amsoil rolled the dice with the Honda and Toyota oil filters and lost. I think they might be setting themselves up for another loss with DI engines if they don't rethink how long you can run their oil in those applications. Even their SS application IMO is way too long! But that's a whole different topic. Keep posting those UOA reports and keep up the fine main't of your vehicles. From what I've learned from your reports is you can flip a coin and use either product with almost identical results. Thanks for posting!



Thanks man. Glad to see that my efforts are appreciated. I'll continue to do back to back analysis of M1 and Amsoil as i keep crawling up the extended drain ladder to see who reigns supreme at the end of the day.

Keep up the great work! It's real world use from people like you w/o an agenda that really matters! Thanks!

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: demarpaint


Artem- I think Amsoil is more "ballsy", than XOM. Amsoil rolled the dice with the Honda and Toyota oil filters and lost. I think they might be setting themselves up for another loss with DI engines if they don't rethink how long you can run their oil in those applications. Even their SS application IMO is way too long! But that's a whole different topic. Keep posting those UOA reports and keep up the fine main't of your vehicles. From what I've learned from your reports is you can flip a coin and use either product with almost identical results. Thanks for posting!



Thanks man. Glad to see that my efforts are appreciated. I'll continue to do back to back analysis of M1 and Amsoil as i keep crawling up the extended drain ladder to see who reigns supreme at the end of the day.

Keep up the great work! It's real world use from people like you w/o an agenda that really matters! Thanks!

What flavors you testing? and what scenario?

 

[PontiacFan]

Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: TimVipond
Does someone make longer extended oil change filters with better filtration than AMSOIL? Seems like AMSOIL leads here again, with XOM following.

Didn't someone here post a particle count test a wile back and the M1 lead the way?


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1251911&page=1

The Mobil 1 Oil Filter did better than the Amsoil EaO Oil Filter, but the OCI was only run to 5000 miles.

My thinking is that if both oil filters were run out to maybe 10,000 miles, that the Mobil 1 Oil Filter would still do better.

It is quite clear that the Amsoil EaO Oil Filter is a waste of money if you are doing 5000 mile OCI's, the same thing could be said for the Mobil 1 Oil Filter for those doing 5000 mile OCI's.

Lets not forget, that Amsoil has a company making there oil filters, I believe it is Donaldson.

So, if we want to praise Amsoil Oil Filters then the praise should be directed at DONALDSON.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: TimVipond
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Does someone make longer extended oil change filters with better filtration than AMSOIL?


No why would they? It's already known thanks to Amsoil that extended drain filters for those vehicles is a bad idea.

Maybe the others can't or don't want to? I don't know. But AMSOIL sure makes and sells a lot of them for Hondas and Toyotas. For up to 15,000 severe service miles up to 1 year. I use them on my Honda and other vehicles and equipment.


Didn't they recently shortened the service life to 15,000 miles or 1 year? They did because they had problems......No one is perfect!


Originally Posted By: Artem
Just a few specific oil filters, not the actual oil itself.


Yes it was the filters not the oil. If I had to bet, the smart money says they'll be cutting the in service use for their oil in the DI engines too. Much more than the SSO and ASM severe service intervals posted on their site. If I was using Amsoil in a DI engine I'd cut the interval before they issue a warning, no point in being a crash dummy testing products for them. JMO

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: PontiacFan

Lets not forget, that Amsoil has a company making there oil filters, I believe it is Donaldson.

So, if we want to praise Amsoil Oil Filters then the praise should be directed at DONALDSON.



Well actually that is incorrect in a couple ways. The filters in question were made by Wix. And yes a similar media is made by Donaldson, however Amsoil brought them together in a filter for passenger cars. The praise indeed is for Amsoil.