The new Indians revealed last night

[Robenstein]

I would not go so far to say it will " out pull and out ride" any metric. Plenty of large displacement metric cruisers that put up numbers as good or edge out their Harley competitors. Harley makes a good bike. Maybe a little overpriced, but its solid. I will not bash them, but I wont make excuses for them either. In a sea of bikes they wont always come out on top, but they are competitive in many aspects.

I am betting a stock full sized Harley wont be outrunning a Triumph Rocket III for instance. But I would take one over a Royal Enfield or Ural Metric for sure.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Propflux01
What is really antiquated about them? Because they are air-cooled? Because they are push rod actuated?

you keep saying HD is inferior. Inferior to what? Seems to me if it were such a bad bike there sure wouldn't be much in sales, and please don't give me the marketing Kool-Aid. Seems the Metric bikes can't get enough of a HD so they literally copied a V-twin design to appease the masses. Hasn't really worked out that well for them in the big picture now has it?

I see most small prop-driven airplanes are air cooled and pushrod-activated. this is 2013, seems they should have done away with that long ago.

I think instead of bashing, or as you say it, "pointing out differences", maybe you should see just what the HD bikes are used for.

They are not "rockets", so no high revving 4 cyl engine bouncing of the redline, with the rider wearing the latest full body armor suit with the bike makers name emblazoned on its front.

They are not "Brit bikes" with their distinct sound and look, and stereotypical "lone rider" person.

They are not Gold Wings, known for their 50 miles of rocket-ship plastic and uber quiet and smooth ride, usually ridden by elderly gentlemen and their wives (hence the name "old wing")

They are not Dirt bikes with the suited muddy rider with his transformers-looking gas mask helmet..

They are purpose built for a specific type rider who likes the torque and sound of its power plant. Much like some of us like the sound of an old big block V-8. That "antiquated" air cooled engine can go as many miles as a water-cooled metric. It can be tinkered with and built up to whatever the driver wants. Can yo udo that with that ultra modern metric? I can garentee you that an old antiquated HD engine will out pull and our ride a modern metric, its been proven many times over in stock form.If it was junk, these riders would be first in line to get one of those ultra modern Metric cruisers - Sorry, just isn't happening. So when you "point out differences" please make sure you look at all the picture instead of just a slice. The fact you don't like them is one thing,and that is, of course your deal. But don't bash the people or the bikes if they continue to be the biggest bike buying group, and with all that $$, they obviously feel by experience that the quality is quite there.



A Harley engine go as long as a liquid cooled metric? I don't think so. I've seen Goldwings with 300K+ miles that have never had the engine opened...you won't find any Harley engines doing that...and you must not be very mechanically versed if you think pushrods, chain driven clutches, and stators being buried in the hottest part of the engine aren't antiquated designs....typical Harley guy....you can keep saying the proof just ain't so, but that isn't gonna change the facts...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I would not go so far to say it will " out pull and out ride" any metric.


I don't blame you as it couldn't be any further from the truth. I doubt if there's a metric made, equal size vs equal size, that won't outpull a Harley....

 

[WANG]

I'm really interested to see what Indian comes out with in the next couple years. Thinking like scrambler or tracker type things. They certainly have the engineering and capitol resources to bring some neat stuff out. This initial offering looks pretty good for people who are into that sort of thing, and a legit resurrection of the brand. With the precedent that Bloor set with Triumph, the sky is the limit for Indian.

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted By: grampi

A Harley engine go as long as a liquid cooled metric? I don't think so. I've seen Goldwings with 300K+ miles that have never had the engine opened...you won't find any Harley engines doing that...and you must not be very mechanically versed if you think pushrods, chain driven clutches, and stators being buried in the hottest part of the engine aren't antiquated designs....typical Harley guy....you can keep saying the proof just ain't so, but that isn't gonna change the facts...


I'm sure if there is a Wing with millions of miles on it there's a hog as well. funny you don't mention a metric cruiser with loads of miles.

Really? I'm not mechanically versed to assume that putting your stator, clutch, and gearbox in the SAME hole (oiling area) is not really a modern and updated design? Sure, OK. Love the thought of clutch particulates and gearboxes shavings finding there way into every nook and cranny in my crankcase and shearing my oil.

This thread was started about the Indian motorcycle. By Indians own admission, they built this bike to compete against AMERICAN branded motorcycles. Hmm, other than Victory, which is on the same team, that leaves...let me see... Oh! Harley Davidson!! I don't see, Vulcan, Road Star, Shadow... Wonder why?

Now I am not gonna bash those metric bikes as unreliable, they are not my fancy, but having had Honda and Suzuki bikes in the past, I have had my share of issues with them as well. I am sure they fit the bill perfectly for those who like their style and supposed reliability. So go ahead and call me the "typical blind Harley guy" all you like. But i'll say it again, If they weren't up there with quality and general appeal, they wouldn't outsell metrics like they do.

Oh, and by the way, if you knew anything about the HD engine, you would know that the stator, and chain driven clutch is located in it's OWN area, away from the engine internals and its oil, and away from the gearbox and its oils and internals. In other words, AWAY from the hottest parts. Kinda like an automobile, you know, engine oil in one area, gear oil in another. Not all mixed together like most metric cruisers ( I leave out GW as older wings had internal stators, but later ones have external alternators. Still gearbox and engine share a common sump, and a GW is not a cruiser and has no direct HD competition anymore than a sportbike or dirt bike does).

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted By: WANG
I'm really interested to see what Indian comes out with in the next couple years. Thinking like scrambler or tracker type things. They certainly have the engineering and capitol resources to bring some neat stuff out. This initial offering looks pretty good for people who are into that sort of thing, and a legit resurrection of the brand. With the precedent that Bloor set with Triumph, the sky is the limit for Indian.


IMHO if Polaris is smart they will distance the Indians from the Victory's. while I am sure the Victory is a great bike, it really hasn't taken off that much. I see one here and there but if Indian becomes it's "own" brand (similar to what Yamaha did with the Road Star) and sort of distances itself from Polaris, and added a scrambler or other unique bike, I think they would reach that sky.

 

[Robenstein]

Many manufacturers left the idea of a pre unit construction(separate engine, trans, primary)in the 60's (Norton being a holdout, mostly due to a lack of R&D funding) So yes, being pre unit makes Harleys a bit of a throwback. Most makers left pre unit because the unit design tends to make for more sturdy cases that can handle greater stresses and more powerful powerplants. That is why the VRSC Revolution engine is of unit construction.

 

[Maximus1966]

Originally Posted By: porkchop01
How did this thread turn into a Harley bash?


The same way it always starts....the guys with "short man syndrome" chime in. If you aren't familiar with the affliction, google it. You'll find most of the bashers at 5'6" or less. If they happen to be of normal height, they still see "short" when they look in the mirror. It's a character defect, probably brought on my inadequate nurturing as a kid.

This syndrome is not uncommon throughout the population unfortunately. I compete in organized clay target sports and we hear the same bovine excrement with shotguns. The most desirable (and expensive) brand of target gun was designed in 1932 and, although refined over the years is still basically the same. Those with SMS can't see the value of their durability, rebuildability, quality of materials and workmanship, etc., and take every opportunity to tell everyone that although they can afford to buy any brand they want, they prefer their Japanese, Turkish or Russian model and would never spend the kind of money it takes to buy the proven gun. So insecure are they in their choice, they spend inordinate amounts of time trying to convince the buyers of the desirable gun that it's performance sucks and they were foolish for paying more for it. It apparently grows into some sort of compulsion that they just cannot control. It's really sort of pitiful.

 

[JetStar]

At any rate, I'd like to see Indian come out with something a little stripped down in the future. I'm not a big fan of the full retro approach myself, but a I can appreciate it.

 

[porkchop01]

Originally Posted By: JetStar
At any rate, I'd like to see Indian come out with something a little stripped down in the future. I'm not a big fan of the full retro approach myself, but a I can appreciate it.

If everyone had this same mindset, this thread would not have taken the path that it has. Everyone has there own taste in style,form and function, while someone else's may differ from yours, It should still be appreciated and respected.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: porkchop01
Originally Posted By: JetStar
At any rate, I'd like to see Indian come out with something a little stripped down in the future. I'm not a big fan of the full retro approach myself, but a I can appreciate it.

If everyone had this same mindset, this thread would not have taken the path that it has. Everyone has there own taste in style,form and function, while someone else's may differ from yours, It should still be appreciated and respected.


That I agree with....

 

[Maximus1966]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: porkchop01
Originally Posted By: JetStar
At any rate, I'd like to see Indian come out with something a little stripped down in the future. I'm not a big fan of the full retro approach myself, but a I can appreciate it.

If everyone had this same mindset, this thread would not have taken the path that it has. Everyone has there own taste in style,form and function, while someone else's may differ from yours, It should still be appreciated and respected.


That I agree with....


Well, whaddaya know....it's a miracle. There IS hope for short people everywhere!

 

[Mik]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: porkchop01
Originally Posted By: JetStar
At any rate, I'd like to see Indian come out with something a little stripped down in the future. I'm not a big fan of the full retro approach myself, but a I can appreciate it.

If everyone had this same mindset, this thread would not have taken the path that it has. Everyone has there own taste in style,form and function, while someone else's may differ from yours, It should still be appreciated and respected.


That I agree with....


+1.... sadly, those of us who are non-Harley types are expected to respect them yet all the while silently enduring the arrogance and contempt of the Harley crowd....... go figure......

 

[Mik]

Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: porkchop01
Originally Posted By: JetStar
At any rate, I'd like to see Indian come out with something a little stripped down in the future. I'm not a big fan of the full retro approach myself, but a I can appreciate it.

If everyone had this same mindset, this thread would not have taken the path that it has. Everyone has there own taste in style,form and function, while someone else's may differ from yours, It should still be appreciated and respected.


That I agree with....


Well, whaddaya know....it's a miracle. There IS hope for short people everywhere!


Great timing Minimus....... you just proved my point

FWIW, there are therapies available to help deal with the mid-life crisis issues your type have.... buying a Hardley is just putting a Band-Aid on the sore.....

 

[DuckRyder]

I like the look of them, especially the vintage. While the Chieftain misses the mark for me, the fairing looks too modern with the skirted fenders and such to my eye.

I do hope Indian makes a go of it this time, more bikes on the road is a good thing for riders.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: Mik

.... sadly, those of us who are non-Harley types are expected to respect them yet all the while silently enduring the arrogance and contempt of the Harley crowd....... go figure......


I suspect that your arrogant, contemptuous, bigoted and otherwise [censored] poor attitude may breed the same.

I've met motorcyclist of all types, you meet nice people and horses rear ends on all makes, but generally if you have such a dim view of another group it is time to look in the mirror because as a rule you get what you give.

In short, you have become that which you despise.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: porkchop01
Originally Posted By: JetStar
At any rate, I'd like to see Indian come out with something a little stripped down in the future. I'm not a big fan of the full retro approach myself, but a I can appreciate it.

If everyone had this same mindset, this thread would not have taken the path that it has. Everyone has there own taste in style,form and function, while someone else's may differ from yours, It should still be appreciated and respected.


That I agree with....


Well, whaddaya know....it's a miracle. There IS hope for short people everywhere!


Not really, I'm a fool...a fool for thinking this discussion with pro-Harley guys would be any different than any of my previous ones...you guys will deny facts and proof without logic...when someone claims Harleys are just as or more reliable, will last as long or longer, will "outpull" the competition, or doesn't utilize antiquated designs, well, those claims simply are not true, and because I call you guys out on this B S I'm called a "basher." So I'm trying a different approach...Harleys are the most reliable, well built, and well designed bikes made, and they're well worth every penny paid for them. Does that show the proper "appreciation" for one's choice?

 

[Maximus1966]

Originally Posted By: Mik
[/quote]

Great timing Minimus....... you just proved my point

FWIW, there are therapies available to help deal with the mid-life crisis issues your type have.... buying a Hardley is just putting a Band-Aid on the sore.....


"SteveSRT8" a well-respected member here whose advise is always spot on, posted this for you on another of your bashing rants:

"I weighed in there too. The only thing is you never let up. Just keep blasting it out there, you're making friends for sure! C'mon man, seriously, you made you point OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

We get you."

Apparently went right over your head. I'll type this one more slowly for you...try to keep up. If you don't like a certain brand or are not interested in owning one, stay off threads related to that brand. It' just that simple.

As far as the therapy you are seeking, you may be out of luck...SMS seems to be a lifelong affliction.

 

[Maximus1966]

Originally Posted By: grampi

Not really, I'm a fool...a fool for thinking this discussion with pro-Harley guys would be any different than any of my previous ones...you guys will deny facts and proof without logic...when someone claims Harleys are just as or more reliable, will last as long or longer, will "outpull" the competition, or doesn't utilize antiquated designs, well, those claims simply are not true, and because I call you guys out on this B S I'm called a "basher." So I'm trying a different approach...Harleys are the most reliable, well built, and well designed bikes made, and they're well worth every penny paid for them. Does that show the proper "appreciation" for one's choice?


When you learn to differentiate your opinions (biased ones at that) from actual facts you will find these conversations much more to your liking and understanding. Continue to be dazed and confused and you'll have issues.

 

[Maximus1966]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: Mik

.... sadly, those of us who are non-Harley types are expected to respect them yet all the while silently enduring the arrogance and contempt of the Harley crowd....... go figure......


I suspect that your arrogant, contemptuous, bigoted and otherwise [censored] poor attitude may breed the same.

I've met motorcyclist of all types, you meet nice people and horses rear ends on all makes, but generally if you have such a dim view of another group it is time to look in the mirror because as a rule you get what you give.

In short, you have become that which you despise.


^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^