The cost of living in 2024....

[KrisZ]

It’s amazing how many people don’t know how compounded interest works. And I would sort of give a pass to some of the home owners as the education level varies greatly there.

But for the college educated people to moan and whine how their payment barely paid off the principal is ridiculous. If they chose to stay ignorant, that is on them.

 

[John105]

It’s amazing how many people don’t know how compounded interest works. And I would sort of give a pass to some of the home owners as the education level varies greatly there.

But for the college educated people to moan and whine how their payment barely paid off the principal is ridiculous. If they chose to stay ignorant, that is on them.

You'd be surprised. My bro and sis in law have no kids. They bought their house in 2005, both earn high incomes, bro is a VP at a euro insurance co and sis in law is a CPA. They have no intention on paying off their mortgage early, which takes them to 2044, and refinanced once since 2005, about 10 years ago. All of the above makes no sense to me. If I had to guess? They have separate accounts, and split the mortgage 50/50, so neither is compelled to rid themselves of the interest charges which are essentially not deductible like before.

I was raised by misers by today's standards, and I'm thankful for that. Want an example? They refused to pay for braces, so I had to do it myself and began treatment, when I was a senior in HS (insurance would have paid 50%).

 

[Pablo]

I am in zero rush to pay off my mortgage. I have muni bonds that pay higher interest than the mortgage rate on the cash and pay zero tax on the earned interest. My total return is higher than the monthly payment and even if the interest earned was only higher than the loan interest by $50-100 or whatever, it would still be worth it because the rate is so low, a decent chunk goes to the principal. Leverage.

 

[John105]

When my aunt sold her home in NorCal I said to my cousin man she's rich. He says no, she is not. She may have sold a 2 mil home, and downsized (to Tracy CA), but she owed a lot. She believed all her life in borrowing as long as the interest rate was low. Contrast my other aunt in Boston. Has 4 rental properties in Boston, on an AP clerk's salary. Lives today like it's 1975, and everything is for my cousins and their children. Everybody is different. Some rather not owe. Any one of us could borrow against our homes and then invest that money, with a very good chance of beating the rate at which we borrowed. Not everyone is comfortable doing that, nor considers it missed money to not do that...

 

[Astro14]

+1

Plus tuition reimbursement via state lotteries.

That chart displays exactly what those of use who have put kids through college already knew - college vastly outstripped inflation.

Through posts here, many of you know that I went to college on a combination of financial aid, student loans, and academic scholarship. My Dad’s out of pocket for me was about $3,000/year. I was intimately involved in the process, and knew all the numbers as I was the one signing for loans, which were paid back while I was in the Navy, and I had various campus jobs, including teaching assistant in the physics department.

Many of you also know that my wife and I put our six kids through college, from 2008-2022, we had at least one, and up to four, kids in college at the same time. I know exactly what college cost us, and we were able to get out kids through without loans, but the cost now, in relation to things like cars, or houses, or a gallon of gas, was brutally high.

The “no loans” objective for us was critical. We did not want the kids saddled with debt upon graduation.

Our kids all graduated and got jobs, or went on the advanced degrees. For those advanced degrees, the loans made sense, as the job would allow the loans to be paid back. The daughter who is a surgeon is not going to have a problem paying back her roughly $180,000 in loans for medical school. In fact, while still a Resident (think, low pay while in training) she has already paid off two of the private loans, that had higher interest rates.

We believed in education for the sake of education. That our kids should have the chance to learn, through college.

But, and it is an important but, we, and they, knew that being financially independent was the ultimate goal.

So, the surgeon - took on big loans, knowing precisely what she was doing, and going into a career that allowed her to enjoy the gains from the investment in her advanced education.

What continues to shock and disappoint me is how many students, and how many parents, fail to consider and plan how the finances of college will work. Little Suzie gets her degree in graphic design, for example, and borrows over $100,000, and then finds out what a graphic designer makes, and cries that she can’t pay back her loans.

What kind of fool enters into that kind of situation without doing the simplest of research on the cost of a degree and the anticipated salary from the degree that was earned?

Apparently, that foolishness is common.

 

[Pablo]

And we pay more student debt forgiveness. That frosts my toast. DON'T get me started on "free education" again. Most of these clowns work in gov and zero degree needed to do the actual "work".

 

[Pablo]

When my aunt sold her home in NorCal I said to my cousin man she's rich. He says no, she is not. She may have sold a 2 mil home, and downsized (to Tracy CA), but she owed a lot. She believed all her life in borrowing as long as the interest rate was low. Contrast my other aunt in Boston. Has 4 rental properties in Boston, on an AP clerk's salary. Lives today like it's 1975, and everything is for my cousins and their children. Everybody is different. Some rather not owe. Any one of us could borrow against our homes and then invest that money, with a very good chance of beating the rate at which we borrowed. Not everyone is comfortable doing that, nor considers it missed money to not do that...

That's not what I wrote, but decent example - but fuzzily written. Aunt#1 didn't have the cash in investments while paying the mortgage. Not enough information on Aunt #2. She paid cash? Or? Where did the seed money come from? Timeline? Smart landlords can leverage and love raising rate environments.

I get that it's nice to not owe. I get that 100%. We have NO other debt, but $X00+ month is good to pocket too.

 

[hrv]

And we pay more student debt forgiveness. That frosts my toast. DON'T get me started on "free education" again. Most of these clowns work in gov and zero degree needed to do the actual "work".

How about some mortgage and senior forgiveness while your at it....I love a line I saw yesterday.... My body my choice....My student loan my debt...

 

[Astro14]

In expansion of my “foolishness” discussion above, let me compare and contrast five girls I know from two families. All smart. All hard working. Listed in the order of age.

Girl 1 - Graduates undergrad debt free, Magna Cum Laude degree in Cellular, Developmental, and Molecular Biology from a very good school. Goes to medical school. Takes on $180,000 in debt, but with the earning potential of a surgeon in her future.

Girl 2 - Goes to modest college in Western Colorado, works as an RA, takes on a couple loans, works as a paramedic and ski patroller while in school, graduates with little debt, pays it off in a year, enrolls in Nursing school, paying as she goes. Will have a good paying job and no debt.

Girl 3 - Sister of girl 2. Goes to Suffolk University in Boston. Parents outline the fiscal reality of this choice. But it’s “My choice!” Graduates with $100,000 in debt and a degree in graphic design. Can’t find a job. Lives at home, interest accrues on debt, firmly believes government should cancel student debt. Sweet kid. Smart, but not on this point.

Girl 4 - Sister of girl 2. Goes to the same school as her sister. Works as an RA, worked as a paramedic, graduated without debt. Moved back in with her parents while she goes to nursing school. Borrowed a bit to finance that school. Will have a good paying job, minimal debt.

Girl 5 - Sister of girl 1. Graduates undergrad debt free. Summa Cum Laude degree in Molecular Biochemistry and Biophysics. Works in research for a year to save money. Wants to be a doctor doing medical research. Goes to a combined MD/PhD program, which includes tuition support and a stipend, so that she will not need any loans to complete medical school. Knows that researchers don’t make what a surgeon (her sister) will make. Planned her career and education with that in mind.

I know all five girls well. All five knew the economic realities confronting higher education, and the expected salary ranges in their career fields. Four made great choices.

But the last one, girl no. 3 above, made poor choices even as her parents advised her, and now, as is typical of her generation, is calling for the cancellation of student debt, which is, frankly, unfair to the other four girls who made wise choices. The other four girls got no help from any government, and did their thinking before they made their choice.

If we, as a society, are going to help girl 3 by “cancelling” her debt, by bailing out her foolishness, how do we reward the other four? Should they get an equal amount of “forgiveness” in the form of cash? Do we really want to reward the girl who made foolish choices?

Part of being an adult is accepting the consequences of your actions. Taking responsibility for your decisions.

There are four adults in this example I’ve provided.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

That chart displays exactly what those of use who have put kids through college already knew - college vastly outstripped inflation.

Through posts here, many of you know that I went to college on a combination of financial aid, student loans, and academic scholarship. My Dad’s out of pocket for me was about $3,000/year. I was intimately involved in the process, and knew all the numbers as I was the one signing for loans, which were paid back while I was in the Navy, and I had various campus jobs, including teaching assistant in the physics department.

Many of you also know that my wife and I put our six kids through college, from 2008-2022, we had at least one, and up to four, kids in college at the same time. I know exactly what college cost us, and we were able to get out kids through without loans, but the cost now, in relation to things like cars, or houses, or a gallon of gas, was brutally high.

The “no loans” objective for us was critical. We did not want the kids saddled with debt upon graduation.

Our kids all graduated and got jobs, or went on the advanced degrees. For those advanced degrees, the loans made sense, as the job would allow the loans to be paid back. The daughter who is a surgeon is not going to have a problem paying back her roughly $180,000 in loans for medical school. In fact, while still a Resident (think, low pay while in training) she has already paid off two of the private loans, that had higher interest rates.

We believed in education for the sake of education. That our kids should have the chance to learn, through college.

But, and it is an important but, we, and they, knew that being financially independent was the ultimate goal.

So, the surgeon - took on big loans, knowing precisely what she was doing, and going into a career that allowed her to enjoy the gains from the investment in her advanced education.

What continues to shock and disappoint me is how many students, and how many parents, fail to consider and plan how the finances of college will work. Little Suzie gets her degree in graphic design, for example, and borrows over $100,000, and then finds out what a graphic designer makes, and cries that she can’t pay back her loans.

What kind of fool enters into that kind of situation without doing the simplest of research on the cost of a degree and the anticipated salary from the degree that was earned?

Apparently, that foolishness is common.

I only have 2 that I know of.

Son is in 2nd year of PA school with excellent prospects to pay off his loans quickly. Daughter is going into grad school for Occupational Therapy and currently works almost 30 hours week at a therapy office. Wife and I paid a bunch that we saved early (not enough) but will continue help and pay as we can. Many of the better jobs out there are now also helping to pay student loans as an incentive to work for the companies and invest in their employees retention. When we are gone they get the rest of 401k, house etc anyway.

One "investor" show I heard on radio driving home put the catch 22 for the paying off house but as older. If you can invest the money and cover payments from it even if $100, you are ahead. If you use it to pay off the house, your liquid asset is gone if you need it for some other healthcare or emergency. Not having that large payment is excellent and piece of mind. Cash type you can access, if in house you would need to sell it to get the cash. House could always be sold either way if needed and would most likely turn profit after paying the mortgage off. Both ways work for different people.

 

[KrisZ]

That’s how you sell socialism to the young people.

 

[Pablo]

That’s how you sell socialism to the young people.

Called vote pandering.........

 

[hrv]

Called vote pandering.........

that too..

 

[John105]

That chart displays exactly what those of use who have put kids through college already knew - college vastly outstripped inflation.

Through posts here, many of you know that I went to college on a combination of financial aid, student loans, and academic scholarship. My Dad’s out of pocket for me was about $3,000/year. I was intimately involved in the process, and knew all the numbers as I was the one signing for loans, which were paid back while I was in the Navy, and I had various campus jobs, including teaching assistant in the physics department.

Many of you also know that my wife and I put our six kids through college, from 2008-2022, we had at least one, and up to four, kids in college at the same time. I know exactly what college cost us, and we were able to get out kids through without loans, but the cost now, in relation to things like cars, or houses, or a gallon of gas, was brutally high.

The “no loans” objective for us was critical. We did not want the kids saddled with debt upon graduation.

Our kids all graduated and got jobs, or went on the advanced degrees. For those advanced degrees, the loans made sense, as the job would allow the loans to be paid back. The daughter who is a surgeon is not going to have a problem paying back her roughly $180,000 in loans for medical school. In fact, while still a Resident (think, low pay while in training) she has already paid off two of the private loans, that had higher interest rates.

We believed in education for the sake of education. That our kids should have the chance to learn, through college.

But, and it is an important but, we, and they, knew that being financially independent was the ultimate goal.

So, the surgeon - took on big loans, knowing precisely what she was doing, and going into a career that allowed her to enjoy the gains from the investment in her advanced education.

What continues to shock and disappoint me is how many students, and how many parents, fail to consider and plan how the finances of college will work. Little Suzie gets her degree in graphic design, for example, and borrows over $100,000, and then finds out what a graphic designer makes, and cries that she can’t pay back her loans.

What kind of fool enters into that kind of situation without doing the simplest of research on the cost of a degree and the anticipated salary from the degree that was earned?

Apparently, that foolishness is common.

I think this is an example…

My cousin is a very smart guy, got a 5 year full ride in architecture, flunked out. My uncle spoiled him frosh year since he saved him a lot.

Today, he’s a struggling chiropractor. No business. There is no PC way to say it and someone is gonna be pissed off. That is not the same at all, as getting a MD. He didn’t go to medical school. So in his 40’s he had huge loans, and lives in NorCal. A cousin said to him on Facebook didn’t you research the field before taking on the loans and do you have to live in NorCal can’t you move somewhere less costly? You can only imagine he was enraged and told the cousin who said it, where he could go. But, admittedly, the rest of us were thinking the same thing.

Life does take a lot of thought and planning and often we can’t just wing it.

How many of us can change our lives on a dime? I got a 4% raise this year, smallest in years. I’m in no way mad. It’s about average in the US. But it’s up to me if I’m not happy with it. There isn’t “that” much I can do to change it.

 

[Dave Hess]

John105,

You are correct he is NOT an MD.
Theres a few healthcare professions that people / patients think they seeing an MD.

How much student loan does he have ?

 

[John105]

John105,

You are correct he is NOT an MD.
Theres a few healthcare professions that people / patients think they are an MD.

How much student loan does he have ?

I want to say over $200k and it was more than 10 years ago. …I was once getting an eye exam and I asked the Dr how come I got him (ophthalmologist) and not an optometrist, and it set him off, saying he went to med school, can perform surgery, etc. At any rate with a PPO I can see someone like that for the copay for a medical eye exam. But at that time it was for glasses. Ok I’ll tell the story once we heard helicopters flying overhead. He and his daughter lived several blocks away and were arrested for growing and prescribing weed out of their house. I suppose before it was legal like today

Edit PS we used to park at Temple School of Podiatry. I was half being a wise a** cuz the driver was my friend Doug who was at the time a resident in radiology. I asked him are podiatrists doctors….he said don’t get me started. If you played for the Flyers, who would you see with a foot problem. That or an orthopedic surgeon?

 

[Dave Hess]

Hillbilly Deluxe,

Sales is another avenue your daughter can pursue after a few years of experience.
I’ve met some heavy hitters selling high-end medical equipment to large healthcare organizations / Veterans Administration, etc…

I know a person with a $2M sales quota and regularly does $4-5M a year in sales.

 

[Dave Hess]

I want to say over $200k and it was more than 10 years ago. …I was once getting an eye exam and I asked the Dr how come I got him (ophthalmologist) and not an optometrist, and it set him off, saying he went to med school, can perform surgery, etc. At any rate with a PPO I can see someone like that for the copay for a medical eye exam. But at that time it was for glasses. Ok I’ll tell the story once we heard helicopters flying overhead. He and his daughter lived several blocks away and were arrested for growing and prescribing weed out of their house. I suppose before it was legal like today

Edit PS we used to park at Temple School of Podiatry. I was half being a wise a** cuz the driver was my friend Doug who was at the time a resident in radiology. I asked him are podiatrists doctors….he said don’t get me started. If you played for the Flyers, who would you see with a foot problem. That or an orthopedic surgeon?

A person with an infected ingrown toenail will be begging for a Podiatrist.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I see zero issues with someone with no direct connection with the trades to at least suggest it to someone as a career. Everyone is hiring. Many guys are retiring and thus leaving positions open. Good pay, good career, zero college debt. Not everyone is cut out for college and/ or a desk job. I fit that crowd.

Around here in the electric world, everyone is hiring apprentices and journeymen. Lots of work in the area too. My employer pays for school and does a very good job of making people want to stick around.

I can’t comment on the knee or back issue since I’m only 32. I personally feel better doing what I do now as opposed to how I felt with my ~8-10 hour a day desk job. I know a lot of older guys who are doing fine. The key is to take care of yourself. Some do and some don’t regardless of job.

I am not union and make consistent good money with vacation and holiday pay. I am not bashing the union as we work with union guys of different trades all the time. I will say there’s more money in commercial than residential as a non business owner. I did residential for a year. Learned a lot. Wasn’t for me.

There is a wild difference between getting a job that will give you an apprenticeship and the time to go to school, vs "just go to trade school".

As I mentioned, my entire family have been tradesman for generations and I am the first one to say they are the forgotten group that keeps this country running every day.

As for still doing it at 55, depends on the trade.

My point is simply its not a golden bullet for everyone as some seem to suggest. For someone that knows what they want and gets an opportunity, it may have never been a better time to be a tradesman.

I wish you the best of luck and am sure you will do well!

 

[John105]

I feel that those who went into work March 2020 - 2021 kept our country going and are unsung heroes. I applaud them, but often feel what I say means little and sometimes falls on deaf ears.