The Big Test: Midsize Sedans

[97tbird]

I don't think the test was intended to find the biggest selling or the most common vehicle with biggest resale value. And a real objective test should not concentrate on that aspect, anyway.

(Biggest selling/most common thing is not always the BEST thing. And a lot of repeat buyers act on reputation from decades ago; The avg buyer will never see that they're not the same as they used to be before mid- 90s)

 

[buster]

I don't want Mazda to become Honda or Toyota. They are unique.

 

[97tbird]

Exactly.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: buster
I don't want Mazda to become Honda or Toyota. They are unique.


The best thing is that the CEO of Mazda Motors Japan has clearly stated in no uncertain terms that Mazda will not now or ever
Americanize their products in order to sell more cars in the US.

The reason they can get away with that plan is because the RoW especially Europe is buying new Mazda products in record numbers and sales only look to increase. The problem with Mazda in the US isn't the product or that more consumer wouldn't want to buy them it is the marketing budget in the US. They don't have the resources to get the word out. Although I will say that Mazda has become more like the VW of old, their excellent products are sold in the US by word of mouth more than anything else.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
The best thing is that the CEO of Mazda Motors Japan has clearly stated in no uncertain terms that Mazda will not now or ever
Americanize their products in order to sell more cars in the US.

The reason they can get away with that plan is because the RoW especially Europe is buying new Mazda products in record numbers and sales only look to increase. The problem with Mazda in the US isn't the product or that more consumer wouldn't want to buy them it is the marketing budget in the US. They don't have the resources to get the word out. Although I will say that Mazda has become more like the VW of old, their excellent products are sold in the US by word of mouth more than anything else.


I'm glad Mazda realizes that dumbing-down their cars to suit mainstream American "taste" is a losing proposition in the long term.
Are you listening, BMW?

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: MCompact


I'm glad Mazda realizes that dumbing-down their cars to suit mainstream American "taste" is a losing proposition in the long term.
Are you listening, BMW?


It really is quite shocking that BMW is dumbing down their products in the handling department especially on their regular models. You used to be able to buy the ordinary 3er 5er and expect to have a really great sporting sedan you could obtain and not go bankrupt, the other troubling thing at the company is the lowering of the durability and quality of their hard parts, using way too much plastic and over complicating EVERY single system in the car!
They have also focused way too much on electronic gizmos which many buyers don't even care about. Their prices have become outrageous for even basic models.

I think BMW lost their way around the 2000 year or so. But Mercedes did the same back in the late 90s. Customers are increasingly complaining about the lack of solidity and reliability along with handling....they better listen or they are going to be in big trouble in the years to come.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell


It really is quite shocking that BMW is dumbing down their products in the handling department especially on their regular models. You used to be able to buy the ordinary 3er 5er and expect to have a really great sporting sedan you could obtain and not go bankrupt, the other troubling thing at the company is the lowering of the durability and quality of their hard parts, using way too much plastic and over complicating EVERY single system in the car!
They have also focused way too much on electronic gizmos which many buyers don't even care about. Their prices have become outrageous for even basic models.

I think BMW lost their way around the 2000 year or so. But Mercedes did the same back in the late 90s. Customers are increasingly complaining about the lack of solidity and reliability along with handling....they better listen or they are going to be in big trouble in the years to come.


I have to say that my son's X3 has been pretty reliable over the 160k we've had it, and my wife's 328i is OK(but nothing special). I have to say that my Mazdaspeed is a more involving drive than most every new BMW I've driven save the 2er, 435i M Sport, and the M6 Gran Coupe- and I've been a BMW enthusiast since 1971 and owned 10 over the past 31 years...

 

[mrsilv04]

Buying an Accord or a Camry is easy. Most people don't even want to think about it... so they don't, and just head to the Toyota dealer.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: dareo


The Skyactiv Mazdas are really cool for a lot of reasons; but nobody is buying them. Probably due to the price. Mazda would only go $1000 off a 6 when we looked, and $2500-$3000 off an Accord is fairly routine.


LOL. I think you misunderstood your economics classes. Mazda won't go down as much because they are having no problems selling them. They know they can get someone to pay more than you were willing to pay.

 

[CharBaby]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Buying an Accord or a Camry is easy. Most people don't even want to think about it... so they don't, and just head to the Toyota dealer.


I know lots of folks that do this very thing! Based on which is better looking at the time between Hon/Yota(looks - not saying much!).

But, this is what they've been buying for the last 25-30 years. And are very happy doing so! For as many new issues that Hon/Yota have experienced over the last several years, these folks are still getting very good, reliable, long running(10-12 years) Hon/Yota vehicles.

Their whole household(themselves & kids) are all driving one or the other without issues.

This is still saying alot about todays Hon/Yota vehicles.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Buying an Accord or a Camry is easy. Most people don't even want to think about it... so they don't, and just head to the Toyota dealer.


There's nothing wrong with that though. They're decent cars that drive better than most enthusiasts would give them credit for.

I love Mazda too, and I really hope they continue to be successful and build market-share. If it were cost effective to do so I'd love a new Mazda3 for the daily grind.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
They're decent cars that drive better than most enthusiasts would give them credit for.


I'd say that most people who berate popular cars (usually because they're popular) have never driven them. I have found the differences among various extremes to be far smaller than "the internet" hypes them up to be. We're talking about midsize sedans here...if you believe some, one drives like a pure race car and others drive like a bowl of Jell-O. In reality, neither extreme is accurate.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd


I'd say that most people who berate popular cars (usually because they're popular) have never driven them. I have found the differences among various extremes to be far smaller than "the internet" hypes them up to be. We're talking about midsize sedans here...if you believe some, one drives like a pure race car and others drive like a bowl of Jell-O. In reality, neither extreme is accurate.



Agreed; who anybody has watched a recent ad for the Camry should know that. I especially remember the Camry owner who said her car was sporty(!) and felt "grounded to the ground."
Who can argue otherwise in the face of such a knowledgeable and incisive analysis?

Seriously, in terms of driving enjoyment I would rank the Mazda6 first, the Accord Sport a fairly close second(Honda is redeeming itself), and the Camry a distant third.

 

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: dareo
Probably due to the price. Mazda would only go $1000 off a 6 when we looked, and $2500-$3000 off an Accord is fairly routine.


First off, discounting a car in order to sell it isn't really a strong indicator of a good product, or that customers are buying that vehicle because it's the better vehicle. I agree with Mazda keeping the prices as close to MSRP as they can, because they don't have the volume sales that Honda and Toyota enjoy, were there is a larger number of people contributing small amounts of profit, which total up to huge amounts of profit at the end of the year.

Originally Posted By: dareo
The Skyactiv Mazdas are really cool for a lot of reasons; but nobody is buying them. Probably due to the price.


And second, people are buying the Mazda 6.
You're just not paying attention:

Mazda 6 Sales - July '14 - 5,049 - July '13 - 3,447 - % Change - +46.5% - YTD '14 - 31,967 - YTD '14 - 25,115 - % Change - +27.3%

In comparison, your Honda Accord:

Honda Accord Sales - July '14 - 35,073 - July '13 - 31,507 - % Change - +11.3% - YTD '14 - 220,351 - YTD '14 - 218,367 - % Change - +0.09%

So, Mazda sold 6,852 more Mazda 6 sedans this year compared to last year, than Honda did (1,984). For a small car company like Mazda, to be up 27% on a sedan that isn't their highest volume product, is simply amazing.

Here's the Mazda CX-5 sales for July and YTD:

Mazda CX-5 Sales - July '14 - 9,109 - July '13 - 7,825 - % Change - +16.4% - YTD '14 - 59,384 - YTD '14 - 45,880 - % Change - +29.4%

Compare that sales growth versus the Honda CR-V:

Honda CR-V Sales - July '14 - 28,522 - July '13 - 27,226 - % Change - +4.8% - YTD '14 - 183,214 - YTD '14 - 172,989 - % Change - +5.9%

Honda is still showing solid gains, but Mazda is growing faster.
Mazda has sold 13,504 more CX-5's YTD, compared to same time last year, while Honda has only sold 10,225 more CR-V's YTD than last.

And, they are not having to reduce profit margins in order to make these sales as much as Honda while doing that. Sounds like a win-win situation to me.

BC.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Mykl
They're decent cars that drive better than most enthusiasts would give them credit for.


I'd say that most people who berate popular cars (usually because they're popular) have never driven them. I have found the differences among various extremes to be far smaller than "the internet" hypes them up to be. We're talking about midsize sedans here...if you believe some, one drives like a pure race car and others drive like a bowl of Jell-O. In reality, neither extreme is accurate.


I drove a Camry SE last winter...it wasn't bad, but it was just...bland. And that was the "sport" model! For the money...no way, gimme a Charger!

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Originally Posted By: firemachine69
My only problem is the 6 is absurdly ugly... As an Avid 'yota hater, I'd take a Camry first!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

IMO, the Mazda6 is the best-looking of the reviewed group, and second in its class to the Ford Fusion.


I always think the Ford Fusion looks like a frog.

 

[rjundi]

The only cars that interest me/wife in that list are Accord Sport and Mazda6 due to manual transmission availability.

We tried a Mazda6(excellent) but the rear seat is not as good as Accord Sport in terms of family duties.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
The only cars that interest me/wife in that list are Accord Sport and Mazda6 due to manual transmission availability.

We tried a Mazda6(excellent) but the rear seat is not as good as Accord Sport in terms of family duties.


We were/are SO blessed- just one kid, and he is now a college sophomore; we don't care if our next car even has a rear seat!

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Buying an Accord or a Camry is easy. Most people don't even want to think about it... so they don't, and just head to the Toyota dealer.


I don't think that Camry and Accord should be in the same sentence.

 

[CharBaby]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Buying an Accord or a Camry is easy. Most people don't even want to think about it... so they don't, and just head to the Toyota dealer.


I don't think that Camry and Accord should be in the same sentence.

Well, over here in the States, they're very close competitors in terms of sales, size catigory and quality/reliability. They were both the benchmark in our industry. Though both having slightly different driving charactoristics, they are marketed to the same/similar audience.

Neither car being the absolute best in their catigory for everyman, they're both very well rounded vehicles, doing most things well in the scoring catigories among their owners. Hon/Yota offered what their respective buyers wanted. And they may have done this the best/better(customer saticfaction) than the other manufactures! Though, the competition is ceatainly tough!

JMHO!

CB