teflon

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: jonny-b
Hello, Demarpaint.

Yes, I changed the oilfilter two times, but the first time after some 10000 miles, I think. The oil didn't and don't look much different from what it is new. But, remember that it is black-greyish in coulour, because of the graphite, MOS2 and PTFE particles(30% of the oils weight, if I am not wrong).

What I was most surprised about, was the reduced oil consumption, as well as it making the hydralic valve lifters quiet, after some 1000 miles(this had been a problem since I bought the car, and two ARX cycles and one treatment with Restore, did nothing).

What I also saw, was that the dipstick became gradually cleaner and cleaner.

The car now has 476000 kilometers(296000 miles) on the odometer.


Thanks for the reply. A buddy and I are using Lubro Moly, and noticed the oil is that grayish green color once the product mixes in. What is interesting is the oil color is remaining the same, now after over 2000 miles in service the color is not changing muchm if any. Typically I would notice the oil change, I guess since it started out darker it is harder to tell if color is changing. I like the way the car is running with this stuff, the engine is running a little cooler, and oil pressure is slightly less as I reported once before.

 

[Ankhmaat]

Hey I have been using SynLube for now 26 years, in about 14 cars and only changed the oil on two of them, and as SynLube advertises got 100% of the money I paid back when I returned the used SynLube to them. I used it way back when it was called ITAL GTM (Graphite-Teflon-Moly) and was sold by BERTONE X1/9 Dealers as well as used in the cars they sold (X1/9). They were the FIRST car company that had FREE maintenence (read it no oil changes) for 5 years and 50,000 miles - LEXUS people actually learned from them, I was at the dealership back in 1985 for new set of tires, when a "delegation" from Japan accompanied with those required cameras were taking pictures of the FREE COKE machine, donuts and Coffee - WOW, the person I recognized that was with them was David Power (from J.D. Power & Associates) - they even (BERTONE) gave you a FREE car (another BERTONE) to drive if you did not want to wait for the service, etc. and when you came back to pick up the car (mine is FIAT X1/9), it was washed, vacuumed and perfumed all at no extra cost, just amazing service - so incredible that people from Japan came to see it and that was on a NEW $10,000 to $14,000 car and they treated people with FIAT cars taht FIAT abandoned in 1982 just as well, so some things do catch on, and some do not, does not mean that it does not work, and PLEASE TRY IT, before you make any comments...

The guy that used to run the BERTONE Dealership is the one that now owns SynLube, apparently he was so impressed with the product that he bought the busines which back then was in Vancouver BC and moved it to Las Vegas.

 

[Ankhmaat]

I have used TUFOIL before I discovered SynLube and the MSDS lists PTFE at 1% on the product that you suppose to mix with up to 5 quarts of motor oil, the bottle was 8 oz and costed $19.95 + shipping which added up to $23.00 or so back then in 1970's, it has been around that long, no idea what it costs now, but back then TUFOIL was WHITE like milk and thicker than STP.

Last bottle I saw on sale in PepBoys few years back had stuff inside that was PINK and and sticky (but not thick) sort of like Elmer's glue, so they also gave up on theri ORIGINAL formula over the years.

When ever somebody "improves" what they used to have, basically tells me it did not work in the first place, or why cange it ?

 

[jonny-b]

Great post, Ankhmat.

It is really good to see someone with a real-life experience with Synlube, over so many years, to dare telling about it.

What is the longest OCI you have doen, with it, and in what car?

I am sorry for hijacking this teflon tread, but I think it has some relevance.

These posts should have been in a Synlube-tread.
T

 

[Mystic]

Yeah, well Synlube's formula has been changed a few times also. It says so at their website.

I will never buy any of this Synlube stuff jonny-b. You can hurl some more of your silly insults at me. I don't care. I will buy real motor oil, like Pennzoil Ultra.

The technology used in this Synlube is old school. Collodial suspensions of PTFE, moly and graphite have not been used by major motor oil producers for a long time. Instead the major motor oil producers put moly in chemical combinations that are actually effective and far more advanced than any silly colloidal suspension.

You probably do not notice that I can communicate without having to hurl silly personal insults at anybody who disagrees with me. I can attack Synlube without having to attack personally the people who support it. Tempest was trying to bring up real arguments against the technology used in Synlube and you attacked him personally also. If you have to attack the messenger and not the message you must not have much support for your arguments.

But I will tell you this-just because of the behavior of people who support this product I will never use it. I do not associate with people who have to insult anybody who disagrees with them. You might be able to get some people at this website to try your Synlube product but you will never get me to be a customer.

A few of the moderators at this website need to take a look at some of the comments you have made above. Such as the stuff you said about Tempest. It will be interesting to see how long you can hurl insults at this webiste at various people before a moderator steps in.

 

[TurboJim]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Collodial suspensions of PTFE, moly and graphite have not been used by major motor oil producers for a long time. Instead the major motor oil producers put moly in chemical combinations that are actually effective and far more advanced than any silly colloidal suspension.

I will never buy any of this Synlube stuff... I will buy real motor oil, like Pennzoil Ultra.


The topic here is Teflon / PTFE. It is but a single component in Synlube. The merits of one motor oil vs. another motor oil would be best discussed in another thread. No one has brought forth evidence that PTFE is a limiting factor in the usable life of Synlube. User reviews suggest that Synlube is able to hold up under oil change intervals that would turn more popular oils to tar and sludge.

Does PTFE add value to the various products that include it in their composition? I've not seen any 21st Century data that suggests that it does.

 

[Ankhmaat]

Yes the topic is TEFLON and if you ask SynLube (Miro) he tell you by phone or e-mail that SynLube DOES NOT contain any TEFLON, but it does have PTFE called FLUON. I have asked him why they use it and his answer to me was that it does not do much as "lubricant" on hard metal surfaces, but makes big difference on "soft" metals and in gearboxes and diesel engines they can measure difference in sound (decibels) they run quieter.

To some people quiet is better, but of course those who replace OEM air filter with K&N, that is a big negative, the more noise the engine makes the more powerful they think it is !

I have done some research on Internet years ago and found that the stuff SynLube uses (PTFE) is used in printing inks to reduce wear on the typefaces, so totally different industry has the proof that it works on soft alloys from which type has been made.

That today with laser and photo printing may be irrevelant, but you still do have crank and rod bearings that are made from SOFT alloys, and since you ahve to take the engite engine appart to get to them, protecting them makes sense !!!

PS: How do you get SynLube in NORWAY, when people like you know who in Las Vegas do not seem to "get it" ???

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Yeah, well Synlube's formula has been changed a few times also. It says so at their website.

I will never buy any of this Synlube stuff jonny-b. You can hurl some more of your silly insults at me. I don't care. I will buy real motor oil, like Pennzoil Ultra.

The technology used in this Synlube is old school. Collodial suspensions of PTFE, moly and graphite have not been used by major motor oil producers for a long time. Instead the major motor oil producers put moly in chemical combinations that are actually effective and far more advanced than any silly colloidal suspension.

You probably do not notice that I can communicate without having to hurl silly personal insults at anybody who disagrees with me. I can attack Synlube without having to attack personally the people who support it. Tempest was trying to bring up real arguments against the technology used in Synlube and you attacked him personally also. If you have to attack the messenger and not the message you must not have much support for your arguments.

But I will tell you this-just because of the behavior of people who support this product I will never use it. I do not associate with people who have to insult anybody who disagrees with them. You might be able to get some people at this website to try your Synlube product but you will never get me to be a customer.

A few of the moderators at this website need to take a look at some of the comments you have made above. Such as the stuff you said about Tempest. It will be interesting to see how long you can hurl insults at this webiste at various people before a moderator steps in.

 

[jonny-b]

Hi, Ankhmaat.

Well, I get Synlube shipped to Norway, because I order it from Vegas

If people in Vegas don't "get it", I think it can be because they come from Missouri

Mystic, you probably don't know it, but I have had a few disputes with Tempest, a couple of years ago(and most of the ARX-crowd). You could say that this have been built up over a long time, and in a weak moment, I found myself typing these posts and posting them.
I am aware that I should normally not type what I did.
Just sorry about you getting involved and included, but I guess it can be because of your respond to his post?
What do you think?

Meanwhile, since you are not interested in other oils, than the mainstream ones, why do you cycle yourself into a discussion, about non-mainstream products?

Why not just sit down and relax, and wait for the first UOA of Pennzoil Ultra?

 

[Mystic]

Last time I checked a person did not have to have reservations to comment on any of the threads here. You did not merely insult Tempest (questioning his IQ level) but you made an implication that Americans are not too bright. Well, I think Americans must be worth something occasionally. They did help liberate Europe from tyranny and I think Norway was occupied also-wasn't it? My father was there in North Africa, Sicily, Italy, and France. And apparently some Americans have some intelligence. After all the 'miracle' lubricant Synlube is made in America-correct?

I have no problem with you talking about Synlube. You can believe in and use whatever products you like. I welcome the discussion of any and all supplements, motor oils, etc. at this website. Is this not what this website is all about? People discuss motor oils, additives, oil filters, etc.

But I have a real problem when somebody starts hurling personal insults at anybody who disagrees with them.

For YOUR information I have had much more than just an interest in mainstream motor oils. I tried Tufoil and a few other oil supplements and additives. I have used Redline products and I have tried Amsoil motor oil.

If you can manage to answer a few questions without the insults I have a few questions for you.

Is Synlube certified by the SAE and the API? Now I understand in Europe they have different agencies. SAE is Society of Automotive Engineers. API is American Petroleum Institute. They have similiar organizations in Europe but I don't know what they are called. I personally would not use a motor oil in the USA unless it was approved by the SAE and the API.

Chemical additives get used up in a motor oil. There is much more than just anti-friction additives such as moly, PTFE, or graphite. There are viscosity index improvers, additives to prevent acid build-up, detergents, etc. Of course just adding some oil when an oil filter is replaced can replace some of these additives but how is it possible to go 73,000 kilometers (45,000 miles) without an oil change becoming necessary due to additives being used up?

There is contamination of a motor oil also. Aside from dirt that gets into the engine and metal particles from the engine wear there is water buildup, unburned fuel, combustion byproducts, etc. One of the reasons why motor oil needs to be replaced is because of the buildup of these physical and chemical contaminates. Without some sort of super filtering that removes not just dirt and metal particles but the chemcial stuff how are 73,000 kilometer (45,000 mile) oil changes possible?

Just a few questions. You notice I did not have to insult you. Maybe from now on you can treat me with similiar respect.

 

[jonny-b]

Hi, Mystic.

I know for a fact, that Americans are no different than other people.

What I really meant to express, is that your marketing people, are some of the best in the whole world, making the 3000 mile OCI so accepted.
That, and the acceptance of dino oil being the wholy grail.

About motor oil, I have read a few lines, about it.
These things you are bringing up here, is answered, at the Synlube home page.
But you have to read it.
At least, it will be easier to attack it, if you know what is written there.

I do respect that you have your opinion about Synlube, and that it isn't the same as I have.
I just don't think you know so much about it, that I do.
With all respect.

I guess since you come here, you want to learn something, and that's a good thing.

 

[Ankhmaat]

Mystic, you need to grow up !!!
Looks like you are frozen in time in the 1950's that is if you are that old !!!

I had my FIAT X1/9 since November 1979 and put in SynLube at 600 miles and did not change it will it had 90,000 and was even told then that is was NOT necessary! But I did it anyway and got FRESH SynLube in exchange only had to pay for the Oil Filter that normally I used to change every 30,000 miles but then SynLube got the MicroGlass Oil filters and they re good for at least 50,000 miles.

Royal Purple and Pep Boys are now promotig the 20 micron Microglass Oil filters, that is 20 years AFTER SynLube started selling them, and they filter down to 5 micron I am told.

How is it possible to use SynLube that long ?

Because SynLube is NOT PETROLEUM! And has been alwasy used with better filtes and FILTER MAGNETS, and as SynLube claims they do work together, I did a stupid thing only once, changed the filter with WIX, the gasket failed after about 9,000 miles and fortunately I caught it before much oil leaked out, that was the only time in 20 years I dis someting SynLube did not recommend, and I learned my lesson from it, if you do what they tell you, you have ZERO problems.

How is it possible that you do not have to change your spark plugs and do tune ups every 3,000 miles like you used to in the 1950's ?

There are Platinum Tipped Plugs and electronic ignition that is why.

I understand that BOSCH made platinum tipped spark plugs for aircraft in WW 2 so that is in 1940's - so why did it take another 50 years before people with your mindset dared not to change spark plugs at every oil change/ tune up ?

When GM came up with 100,000 tune up (platimum plugs) people refused to believe it and Caddillac sales went DOWN, it scared potential in they 60's and 70's customers that have grown up in the 3,000 tune up gospel - it was way too radical NO TUNE UP !!!

The stuff like better spark plugs, better ATF, etc. was available for a long time, and there was no excuse not to use it but guess what the car companies and the mechanics wanted to take your money!

When you are NOT changing Motor Oil they do not make any money from it, that is why, not because it is not any good but because the Jiffy-Lube becomes obsolete !!!

And you know what is the latest ?

Story was in Automotive News yesterday !!!

Both FORD and Chrysler are FORCING dealers to add $100,000 to $150,000 "quick service" to their dealerships, mainly to compete with the $20 oil change, because they can "up sell" people to tires, brakes, wipers and stuff they do not need at the time of the quick oil change !

Friend of mine before she discovered SynLube was sold NEW AIR FILTER for $49.95 every time she went for $17.95 oil change, that ended up costing her $75 to $90 every time !!!

Since she put SynLube in 5 years ago, she never changed the Air Filter (KIA Sportage) and no problem, so she really realized how much of a rip-off all those low cost services are.

One dealer in the AN Chrysler story proudly said that they sold $180,000 of “EXTRA” services, that people probably would not have done, if it was not for their “oil change special” !!!
So disclosing that you are selling people something they did not need in the first place is a great success story…..

But some people that would not have life if they were not getting their hands dirty on their own vehicles must cling to the “oil change habit” or else what would they do ?

 

[Mystic]

Well Ankhmatt, I have to admit I made a mistake. Seriously, jonny-b is not worse than you.

So I need to grow up, huh? It has been my experience that except for Mom and Dad, people who are telling other people they need to grow up usually have some growing up to do themselves.

And I guess I was right. You can't say anything without the insults. So I am frozen in time in the 1950s right? Do you talk this way to everybody you know and meet?

And how exactly do you know so much about Synlube? Perhaps that is what you were told by the Synlube website or the people behind Synlube? How do you know that Synlube '...is NOT PETROLEUM!' If it is not petroleum exactly what is it? Perhaps you could explain the chemistry of Synlube to us old timers frozen in time?



It is very difficult to read what you write. You need to add more commas and have more sentences without running stuff all together. I am not trying to put you down or anything but seriously it is almost painful to read what you write.

You have still not answered the questions I politely asked so I have to assume that you do not have the answers.

Please let me explain. An oil filter that filters out small particles STILL IS NOT FILTERING OUT the chemical contamination. That chemical contamination consists of such stuff as combustion byproducts, unburned fuel, water etc. And the oil itself eventually becomes oxyidized. Oxygen in the air is a very powerful gas.

Chemical additives in the oil also eventually are consumed and wear out. The motor oil becomes rather useless after the chemical additives are gone. It would be like pouring straight motor oil into a modern engine. It does not work.

Your friend needs to be told she does not need to buy an air filter at a dealership. It is usually easy to change an air filter and they are readily available at any auto parts store. The air filter in my car would probably cost at least twenty dollars at a dealership. I can replace it myself for ten dollars.

I do get my hands dirty working on my car. That does not mean I do not have a life. I rather enjoy working on my car and I still do many other things-like travel, photography, working on photographs, etc. An oil change takes just a short time and unlike what you say the people who do their own oil changes usually can find something else to do after the oil change is done.

There are so many other things that can be said. But it gives me a headache trying to read what you write.

So good luck on finding the ultimate motor oil!

 

[Mystic]

Anyway, this topic was about Teflon (PTFE) in motor oil. So I don't know why it went into Synlube anyway.

I did use Tufoil a long time ago in the past. I no longer believe in Tufoil and I don't believe that PTFE has any place in a motor oil. It can be useful in a grease.

Suspensions of tiny particles of PTFE OR moly or graphite are probably no good in an engine. The motor oil companies developed chemical formulations that contain moly that can work just fine. The motor oil companies have also developed various chemical formulas that can replace the moly used in a motor oil.

Johnny said that Slick50 no longer contains PTFE. Instead it has extra anti-wear and anti-friction chemical additives. I still would not use Slick50 myself.

One of the reasons I don't believe in Synlube is because it contains PTFE. Although they say that their PTFE is 'different' somehow.

Sure, railroad locomotives go a long ways between oil changes, but they have super quality filtering and barrels of motor oil. And industrial engines use some oil and there is add oil whenever necessary. And the oil used in locomotives is in a controlled closed loop where is there strict quality control.

There is no way in an average car, pickup truck, van or SUV that you could typically have the same setup as a railroad locomotive.

And with motor oil not being that expensive why not change often enough so that you have a reasonable expectation that the quality of the oil has not been allowed to decline too much between changes? I know a few guys who can spend fifty dollars or more in one night at a bar (tavern). If they stayed home one night they could afford oil changes for an entire year, or at least part of a year.

So the oils of today have the anti-friction additives like moly or whatever and therefore there is no need for a special anti-friction additive.

And with so many claims about the cleaning abilities of some of these new motor oils maybe we can drop the additives for cleaning the internal parts of engines.

 

[demarpaint]

I guess by Ankhmatt's definition I'm an old timer frozen in time too. I had cars from the 60's and 70's never tuned them up every 3000 miles. How many of you old timers tuned up your car from the 60's and 70's every 3000 miles?

IIRC I did a tune up once a year, just before winter, and even that was a waste of time. Then I stepped out of the box and let the 72 Plymouth Satellite, and the 66 Ford Falcon go a full 2 years w/o a tune up. That was cutting edge! I logged a lot more than 3000 miles a year.

 

[Mystic]

I think Ankhmatt may feel 99% of all of us here are frozen in time. After all, probably 99% of everybody here are not using Synlube!

Maybe Ankhmatt can manage to get 16,000 or so people at this website to start using Synlube. We will finally enter the 21th Century!

 

[demarpaint]

I'll pass on the Synlube and stay Frozen in Time! After all I do use MMO and that product is close to 85 years old I think!

 

[Mystic]

I once knew when Marvel Mystery Oil came out but I have forgotten. But you are right! It is something like 85 years old! Just the right product for us oldtimers frozen in time!

Marvel Mystery Oil was used in B-17 bombers flying over the Atlantic Ocean.

I also have used Krex, which was an ancient graphite additive from long ago. Heck, it might still be around! Another good product for us oldtimers frozen in time!

I don't know about STP however. True, it is an old product. But I think I might pass on that one.

Can anybody think of other oldtime products for us oldtimers frozen in time?

 

[Trajan]

Geritol? Works really well on those work hardened surfaces, and 2500 times denser.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I once knew when Marvel Mystery Oil came out but I have forgotten. But you are right! It is something like 85 years old! Just the right product for us oldtimers frozen in time!

Marvel Mystery Oil was used in B-17 bombers flying over the Atlantic Ocean.

I also have used Krex, which was an ancient graphite additive from long ago. Heck, it might still be around! Another good product for us oldtimers frozen in time!

I don't know about STP however. True, it is an old product. But I think I might pass on that one.

Can anybody think of other oldtime products for us oldtimers frozen in time?


Motor Honey comes to mind, Hastings made it to compete with STP back in the day. But MMO really takes the prize in the Old Timers Hall of Fame.