Super sludge in a 4.0 jeep engine, need advice.

[JANDSZIRKLE]

im no expert, but have driven many a beater over the years.

i would follow the above advice....

all the vehicles i purchased with bad prior maintenance over the years ran best with 3k or so oil changes with a decent oil and filter till they started looking cleaner when checked on the dipstick and when oil was changed.

just my .02

side note... mother in law has same engine in a grand cherokee, when my brother in law did short change intervals, by the end otf the 1st year there was no sludge evident when taken apert. and there was some present when she 1st purchased it.

 

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: yonyon
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter

Drain the sludge filled cleaner into a clean pan capable of holding 2.5 gallons of oil, reinstall the drain plug, and repour that used cleaner back into the oil filler hole.
Let it sit overnight again.

So drain it out then immediately pour it back in and then let it sit overnight again? Why not just leave it where it is?


Since the valve cover was already on the top of the engine after Trav's original post, this will allow a second wash of cleaner down the cylinder head valley in order to loosen things up a bit more before the manual cleaning performed in the next step.

Originally Posted By: yonyon
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Pop off the valve cover and take a look at the condition, and post pictures.
If the valve cover is going to come back off, shouldn't that happen at the beginning to clean the top before the soak that ensures a clean pickup strainer?


Having the valve cover in place allows the OP to pour the cleaner through, and have it channel to the oil pan the way oil normally flows from the top to the bottom. And extra flow of the cleaner this way does nothing but allow things to be even looser when the time comes to pop the cover off, and manually start scrubbing leftover sludge.

The pickup strainer will be clean regardless, because of how much of the cleaner will get down to it, and the fact that it will have been soaked for a good long time.

Originally Posted By: yonyon
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
If it's much cleaner, drain the cleaner from the oil pan, and take the third gallon jug, and lightly clean as much sludge off of the top of the engine using whatever you have on had to do it. Toothbrushes are cheap, and soft, but buy a bunch of them.

So now you want to knock loose any sludge left up top and let it go where it may. I don't think your plan makes as much sense as Trav's method.


Dude, seriously.
Cleaner in the pan means the sludge is getting dissolved.

If you don't like it, don't do it, but this isn't your thread.

And aside from the higher level of cleaner in the oil pan, my plan is pretty much the same as Trav's, but only took into consideration the fact that the valve cover was back in place, where as it wasn't when Trav made his post.

Use less cleaner, and there's no difference between my post and Trav's.
You're just under-thinking the whole process.

BC.

 

[yonyon]

Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
You're just under-thinking the whole process.
I have a tendency to do that. This is a personal failing that sometimes leads to a "happy accident". In this case, you've elaborated on the reasoning behind your plan making it easier for some of us to understand.
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Use less cleaner, and there's no difference between my post and Trav's.

...except for the part where rocker arms and whatnot are mechanically scrubbed off the engine before the pan soak happens.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: FLORIDA
Given the info provided here, what oil do you think would be best for my engine in the long haul? I'm not talking about whatever cheap stuff gets used for the short interval changes, but after that knowing the kind of neglect this truck has had before.


Lots of advice, but no one answered your question.

I have had very good UOAs with VWB 5w30, ST Synthetic in the same weight, and Amsoil 0w, 5w, and 10w30s. All were within a point or two in ppm in all wear metals. If you are going to change every 5000 (once the cleaning is done of course!) then VWB or the ST are inexpensive and good. Amsoil isn't cost effective at that distance.

edit: Oh, and IMO you cannot go wrong following Trav's advice. I saw a couple of his threads and his method really does work.

 

[Jason280]

I had a similar issue with a '95 Jeep Wrangler YJ, although mine was a 2.5L 4 cylinder.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2191690&page=1








Mine was bad enough, I'd wished I'd never pulled the valve cover. Interesting part was, there was never any valve train noise, and the motor purred like a kitten.

I ended up using a shop vac, and very carefully scrapped away all the larger chunks and vacuumed them up. As many have mentioned, you need to make sure you aren't dislodging any large pieces that can plug the oil passages, or your better off simply replacing the valve cover and not touching it. It probably wouldn't hurt to pull the oil pan, as mine was sludged over as well.













I ended up running some MMO in mine and did frequent oil changes, but ended up selling the Jeep less than a year later. I never did pull the valve cover to see the results of the MMO treatments, but never had any valve train noise or other issues. One issue I did run into, though, is for the MMO treatments to be effective, you really need to put some miles on the engine. The Jeep wasn't my only vehicle, and I only drove it when the weather was nice. As such, it was a struggle to get to 500 mile filter change intervals. Nevertheless, I did correct the valve cover leak, and the Jeep ran just as good after I cleaned the valve train as before.

 

[84zmyfavorite]

My Red 84 XJs 2.5 looks like that, and Im Sure my Brown 84z GM2.8V6 looks the same way.

 

[Kuato]

Any update on your 4.0?

 

[FLORIDA]

No update yet, I'm traveling for work right now. I'll probably make it home in another week or so. Berrymans Carb cleaner is sitting in the oil pan as a write this. It should have plenty of time over these last few weeks to make the oil pan look brand new. Its been awhile since I've checked the forum, 12 hours/7 days a week puts me to bed early. I didn't realize the thread had more activity. Thanks to all that have posted.

 

[FLORIDA]

Well the sludge motor is back together and running. It sounded a little funny on initial start up but seems to be smoothing out the longer it runs. Smells a little funny too but I think that is the last remains of the berrymans cleaner still mixed it the oil. I'm gonna run a tank of fuel through the 4.0 then change the oil again to get out whatever is still lurking in there. Thanks to everyone that helped, and a big thanks to Trav for turning me on to the Berrymans Carb Cleaner.

 

[Bladecutter]

How much cleaner did the engine look after your flushes with the Berryman's cleaner?

BC.

 

[94JeepCherokee]

Yeah, I'd like to see some pictures!

 

[hardcore302]

What about a piston soak as well with something like MMO?

 

[84zmyfavorite]

Believe it or not, a full can of DW-40 for a day or two, and then a couple of oz per cylinder of MMO soaking for a couple of days does Wonders for some rings.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
4.0s do shed alot of Iron at times, though. If it was driven by 1 of those 5w-30 enthusiasts, that might work!


So what times exactly are they wearing out more than the other times.


Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
Believe it or not, a full can of DW-40 for a day or two, and then a couple of oz per cylinder of MMO soaking for a couple of days does Wonders for some rings.


And how many times have you executed this routine,with what engines,and what exactly was the end result.
Wd-40 is meant to displace water and really isn't much good for anything else. There are much better penetrants out there.
Got any pics of your handy work.

 

[Geonerd]

You might want to install an oil pressure gauge. That would give you some hope of spotting a clogging intake screen before the entire engine starves and dies.

 

[Kuato]

Pics!

 

[ARB1977]

My grandfather used kerosene in all of his cars, even a early 80's toyota pickup. My uncles used to say every engine would be spotless. He would add maybe a qrt or two and idle the engine for 10-15 mins before changing the oil.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: ARB1977
My grandfather used kerosene in all of his cars, even a early 80's toyota pickup. My uncles used to say every engine would be spotless. He would add maybe a qrt or two and idle the engine for 10-15 mins before changing the oil.


Did he do this every OCI or once in a while?

 

[84zmyfavorite]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
4.0s do shed alot of Iron at times, though. If it was driven by 1 of those 5w-30 enthusiasts, that might work!


So what times exactly are they wearing out more than the other times.


Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
Believe it or not, a full can of DW-40 for a day or two, and then a couple of oz per cylinder of MMO soaking for a couple of days does Wonders for some rings.


And how many times have you executed this routine,with what engines,and what exactly was the end result.
Wd-40 is meant to displace water and really isn't much good for anything else. There are much better penetrants out there.
Got any pics of your handy work.
Yo Clevy, What Is Your Problem?

 

[84zmyfavorite]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
4.0s do shed alot of Iron at times, though. If it was driven by 1 of those 5w-30 enthusiasts, that might work!


So what times exactly are they wearing out more than the other times.
Answer: I Would THINK; When its very Cold, When its very Hot, Frequent Stop&Go trips, High RPM(Much above 4000RPM in my opinion) and or Low Speed Lugging, Extreme Angles engine is run at(IE; Crawling Around OffRoad), Loose Build from factory, Certain Motor oils in sump(ie; some grades Mobil 1, Many brands of petro 5w-30), Abusive driving and Neglegent maintainance,....

Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
Believe it or not, a full can of DW-40 for a day or two, and then a couple of oz per cylinder of MMO soaking for a couple of days does Wonders for some rings.


And how many times have you executed this routine,with what engines,and what exactly was the end result.
Wd-40 is meant to displace water and really isn't much good for anything else. There are much better penetrants out there.
Got any pics of your handy work.
I believe someone said something about a Piston Soak. Thats where you put said amount of whatever penetrating oil You are using through the spark plug hole, and let it sit on top of piston, making its way past the rings, in Hope of a cleaning action or stuck ring freeing taking place as it goes by,...Right? Cheap DW-40(SuperTech) and then MMO have done wonders for many different engines I have done this with, Including Jeep 4.0s