Stuck crank pulley bolt

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Besides, how are you going to put it back on without a holder?

Block the flywheel. Endless hammering? Three hits its off.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: CHARLIEBRONSON21
Impact didn't remove the bolt.

I'll bet that was an AIR impact that didn't remove the bolt.

You would be shocked to find out what kind of of grunt a good electric has. They put air impacts to shame.

You want that bolt to come out with no muss or fuss? Use an electric.

That's a very broad generalization, as my electric has 110 ft-lbs and my little consumer IR air has 600... and it really has 600, since I use GuardAir high flow couplers and fittings end-to-end. Air impacts in 3/4 and 1" go well over 1000 ft-lbs... with properly sized tanks and compressors.

I suspect your low opinion of air impacts has to do with air flow. Most consumer air compressor systems are constricted and highly limiting. When I first got my IR it was outperformed by my 18V battery powered impact (sad). Replacing all my constrictive cheap import fittings with GuardAir High Flows fixed that. My tank has two outputs so I was able to retain standard fittings for all my less intensive air tools.

Originally Posted By: Burny
ghet the Schley tool. Works like a boss.

http://www.tooltopia.com/schley-60100a.a...CFYWFfgodKBMA0Q

Wow your idea seems so much better than mine. Maybe it's the forcefulness of your presentation!
Originally Posted By: HangFire
I haven't done this particular job on a Honda, so I don't know if this tool will help, or if you aren't already using it, but check it out:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000TMLWQ/ref=...=I1FX7I0H92OIDM

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: Trav
That may be the case with Honda i don't know but not all other makes thats why i said it doesn't matter, what does matter is engine direction of rotation.
If someone has a different make having the belt on the drivers side doesn't automatically eliminate it from using this technique.

I'm not questioning your experience or knowledge. It's just that the vehicle in question is specifically a Honda, and my answers were specific to Hondas.

Originally Posted By: Trav
I have tried a lot of different electric impacts in my lifetime from top shelf to cheap stuff although i never wanted to own one.
No offense but not one of them was worth a pee hole in the snow when compared to a good air gun. The Aircat 1150 will remove these Honda crank bolts, i used it on a 3.5 with no trouble and its only half the weight.

There are three problems with air-impacts and your average driveway grease-monkey:
1) compressor
2) compressor
3) compressor.

A big, bulky, expensive compressor.

Few driveway grease-monkeys have a compressor that's much use, if they have one at all. And if you have no garage -- like me -- you definitely do not have a compressor. So what's the alternative? Electric (corded).

A GOOD electric (corded) is capable of 350# of torque, which is more than sufficient for anything you might care to do with:
1) the crank bolt on many cars, and on just about all Hondas
2) driveshaft nuts
3) wheel nuts
4) suspension bolts
5) brake fasteners
6) rusty fasteners in all the above
7) anything else where you have lots of room to maneuver.

Electrics are very heavy and very long, which precludes their use on engine-mount bolts and any other fastener where access is poor. But boy do they make life a whole lot easier when a compressor is impractical.

Originally Posted By: Trav
If that fails i have 3/4 IR and 1" CP894

And you have the compressor to back it up. I don't, and most other home mechanics don't. That's why I have the DeWalt DW293.

The DeWalt cost me $200 when I bought it about 10-years ago. It's the best $200 I ever spent on tools.

The DeWalt weighs about ten pounds, stores in a space of about a foot-cube, and is easily hauled up and downstairs whenever I need it or need to put it away. Now you try that with your compressor.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
Originally Posted By: Tegger
You would be shocked to find out what kind of of grunt a good electric has.

That's a very broad generalization, as my electric has 110 ft-lbs

Then it's not a GOOD electric (as I keep saying). A GOOD electric (as I keep saying) will cost well over $200 and will be capable of 350# of torque. And no compressor needed.

A cheapo Harbor Freight electric (as I said before) will not cut it.

 

[supton]

Why are these bolts on so tight? It's not like the engine makes enough torque to break loose one that was set to finger-tight--it's an Honda after all.

Question still stands. Seems like a bad design. If one has to be stupid tight, why not three at something less than superman torque?

Or are these like axle nuts (on a FWD CV joint/axle) which are just simpler at a single bolt, and which just get tight and stuck due to rust/heat/whatever?

 

[DBMaster]

The torque spec on mine was 106 ft-lb. they just get stuck over time. One of the times that I had mine loosened by a shop and hand tightened it loosened itself on the way home (two miles). I had to stop and make it a little bit tighter. When I put the blue Loctite on it I was able to loosen it with my Craftsman electric impact wrench the next time. I would use anti seize on it when putting it back together.

 

[kschachn]

My experience is that they don't get more stuck over time, but they are over-torqued from the factory - and my Honda was a lot worse than my Toyota (you pretty much never have to remove it from the BMW nor the ECHO). I've had the bolt out of the Sienna three or four times and all were similar difficulty, which is to say about what you would expect given the tightening torque and honestly not that difficult to remove. But the first time on the Honda was a bear. I had a pretty good pipe on the breaker bar to get it apart. However, the second time was not nearly as difficult.

Kind of like wheel nuts and bolts, the proper torque is surprisingly easy to achieve and remove. It's always a lot less than what I would do by "feel".

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
The torque spec on mine was 106 ft-lb. they just get stuck over time. One of the times that I had mine loosened by a shop and hand tightened it loosened itself on the way home (two miles). I had to stop and make it a little bit tighter. When I put the blue Loctite on it I was able to loosen it with my Craftsman electric impact wrench the next time. I would use anti seize on it when putting it back together.

 

[DBMaster]

^Good point. I probably should have tried removing the bolt myself with the electric wrench the second time I did it.

I'll admit that after doing the job the first two times I let my mechanic do it the second two. I just didn't care to spend that much time under the hood in close quarters anymore. Late 80's Honda engine bays were choked with hoses and wires to the extreme. Newer ones actually have a lot more space. I had a good relationship with the shop. I would actually provide the parts (all OEM Honda, ordered online) and paid them $200 for the labor. I am so glad that the newer vehicles have chains.

I also did the timing belt on a 93 Escort wagon. That crank pulley bolt was no problem to break loose.

 

[Vikas]

so what happened to OP?

 

[Shannow]

My L67 Caprice, I tried the bump on the starter, impact wrench etc.

Fainally, I cut a serp belt, wrapped it around the pulley a couple times, and use it as a brake for a breaker bar and a length of water pipe.

Came off with no fuss after many many failed attempts.

 

[CHARLIEBRONSON21]

Still here. Still trying.

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
My L67 Caprice, I tried the bump on the starter, impact wrench etc.

Fainally, I cut a serp belt, wrapped it around the pulley a couple times, and use it as a brake for a breaker bar and a length of water pipe.

Came off with no fuss after many many failed attempts.
On a Honda, you buy that pulley lock tool.

Few years ago, there was an internet reference where a guy took the corded impact wrench and hold it for more than eight and half minute. He timed it and the Honda crank belt came off. I don't recall if it was a Dewalt or HF wrench. With the corded, you never run out of oomph if you are patient.

 

[Vikas]

http://www.hondaaccordforum.com/forum/ge...age4/#post22991

Read that link please! He had to hold it for three and half minute. I do not believe you can buy that Ridgid but it looks suspiciously similar to what HF sells.

The key point to get from this is that it took minutes before the bolt gave up. With corded electric, you don't run out of juice.

 

[kschachn]

OK, I'll go back to my use of the word "endless" that Trav called me out on

Honestly in my book that is beyond dumb. I mean, is someone just trying to prove their impact wrench manhood? Over three minutes of rattling your valvetrain around? Isn't using the proper holder and a BFBB a better way?

Originally Posted By: Vikas
http://www.hondaaccordforum.com/forum/ge...age4/#post22991

Read that link please! He had to hold it for three and half minute. I do not believe you can buy that Ridgid but it looks suspiciously similar to what HF sells.

The key point to get from this is that it took minutes before the bolt gave up. With corded electric, you don't run out of juice.

 

[Quest]

I have this theory RE: why the crank bolt being so difficult to take off....

If the T-belt or crank pulley has been serviced before, would there be the possibility that someone put high-strength threadlocker on the crank pulley bolt before torquing it down?

(*I've seen this happened before from some monkeys*)

Q.

 

[Vikas]

Explain to my why the valve train is rattling around when crank-bolt is being removed? Are you saying if 1200 lb-ft is applied to crank-bolt, valve train is subjected to that torque? I mean they are all connected, correct?

I agree with you about the proper holder 100% though.

My theory is that the big and hefty washer is the one which is seizing the pulley and bolt together.

 

[threeputtpar]

Originally Posted By: Quest
I have this theory RE: why the crank bolt being so difficult to take off....

If the T-belt or crank pulley has been serviced before, would there be the possibility that someone put high-strength threadlocker on the crank pulley bolt before torquing it down?

(*I've seen this happened before from some monkeys*)

Q.


Actually, some of the timing belt kits for my Audi 2.7t include red Locktite specifically for putting on the new crank bolt if the crank seal is being replaced.

 

[Quest]

@3putpar:

I know the Audi threadlocker trick but I'm also highly aware abut the wrongful application of high-strength threadlocker on crank pulley bolts durint T-belt servicing in the past by some indy mech....

2 different scenarios.

Q.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
My theory is that the big and hefty washer is the one which is seizing the pulley and bolt together.

That's not what Honda says. See this PDF

Honda has extremely specific directions for lubricating the crank pulley bolt. Anybody who uses Loctite on the crank-pulley-bolt threads of a Honda is nuts.

 

[goodtimes]

In the 90's on daughters 92 accord i couldn't get the bolt off for a day or so. Then I machined a big hex adapter to fit the inside of the pulley, like the tool they sell, braced that to the frame or ground not to turn, used a craftsman beaker bar and socket, and about a 4 ft. length of steel pipe on the breaker bar. The crack was loud when the bolt broke loose. I don't know about heating something as critical as the crank bolt and crankshaft, doesn't sound good to me.