Stick shifts everywhere!

[Brick B-Body]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I wish there was a clean way to swap a T56 into my Caddy...


I've got a T56 in my 1995 Impala, using the conversion kit from B-Body High Performance. The Impala is a daily driven car, and feels like it left the assembly line with a stick. With a bolt-ons LT1, T56 and 4.10 axle I am able to get 25+ highway mpg on weaksauce California gasoline.

Going with a T56 in your Cadillac shouldn't be that difficult. Aftermarket tubular crossmembers for the 1977 to 1993 B-Body chassis are available in a T56 version. The biggest question would be how similar the pedal mounting points are between the different Cadillac years (1977-1992 vs. 1993-1996)

 

[Silverado12]

I must admit I like to be in control of my shifts when I'm driving an 18 wheeler (new trucks we've been getting are either 12 speed Mack automatics or Peterbilt w/10 speed auto). Manuals suck in heavy traffic, though IMO.

 

[Ifixyawata]

After driving my '05 Neon for 200k through plenty of stop-and-go I told my wife I was ready for an AT. When it died, I searched for another commuter car for a couple months. Then I found this '01 Focus with a 5-speed and I'd already forgotten that I was ready to give up on row-your-own. Besides, any time we go into a city of any kind it's in the Mountaineer and my wife is driving.

It's strange to think of a future when a manual gearbox could be an aftermarket add-on. Seriously, though, I hope the autonomous braking thing doesn't effectively kill the manual transmission for good.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Non-synchronized transmission? Sure, there's a fair amount of skill involved to get the timing right. I suspect that most of the chest-thumpers that brag about their manual transmission skills wouldn't be able to drive a vehicle with a non-synchronized manual transmission, nor would they be able to operate something a bit more complicated like a triplex.


Haven't seen that much chest thumping about driving stick here...do condescending remarks about prowess with non synchro count as chest thumping ?

How many pedals on the harpsichord ?

 

[Shannow]

As to traffic my Nissan (diesel) is fine in traffic. Can pull away from a stop just by letting the clutch out.

Buzz boxes which need revs and slip are really a PITA in traffic, but become much more user friendly on hills than their auto counterparts.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: splinter
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
...Handling is better than ever...

I love rowing the gearbox in my Miata. Have a 6L80E for for workaday duties though.

There's no way any Camry could offer up better 'handling' than a classic 'Vette!

www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/corvette-vs-camry-comparison-test.html


They need to get their Corvette running properly and/or learn how to drive it! 16 second 1/4 mile? FAIL!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
I went to a Honda dealer recently and asked to see a stick Civic. The saleswoman told me that she had not heard that any were being built.


Typical deceitful $tealership [censored]...she knew darn well there were manual Civics being built, but they had no in their inventory and were trying to sell you a car they had on hand.


You greatly overestimate the abilities of a typical car salesperson...

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I've never understood the allure of the dumbed down modern manual transmissions. There is no particular skill involved in driving a modern, synchronized manual transmission. They've been designed to be easy to operate; anyone can do it and it takes no special skills.

Non-synchronized transmission? Sure, there's a fair amount of skill involved to get the timing right. I suspect that most of the chest-thumpers that brag about their manual transmission skills wouldn't be able to drive a vehicle with a non-synchronized manual transmission, nor would they be able to operate something a bit more complicated like a triplex.


Not hard. I took my CDL test with a Spicer 5+2, have also driven a Clark 5-speed, Spicer 4-speed V-drive, 9 and 13-speed (which is a 9 with an overdrive) Road Rangers, a Meritor 10, and a duplex Mack. No big deal.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Brick B-Body
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I wish there was a clean way to swap a T56 into my Caddy...


I've got a T56 in my 1995 Impala, using the conversion kit from B-Body High Performance. The Impala is a daily driven car, and feels like it left the assembly line with a stick. With a bolt-ons LT1, T56 and 4.10 axle I am able to get 25+ highway mpg on weaksauce California gasoline.

Going with a T56 in your Cadillac shouldn't be that difficult. Aftermarket tubular crossmembers for the 1977 to 1993 B-Body chassis are available in a T56 version. The biggest question would be how similar the pedal mounting points are between the different Cadillac years (1977-1992 vs. 1993-1996)


It's not that...it is the fact I am not sure it can be done cleanly. I have a bench seat, a column never built without a shifter (Cadillac's "Tilt-O-Scope"), an engine never offered with a manual shift, and a BOP bellhousing pattern.

I am also not entirely sold on how well a T56 would live with 600lb/ft in a 4500+lb car.

 

[wemay]

I now keep an open mind. I initially hated CVT after driving a loaner a few years ago. My Corolla has completely changed that, not to mention my coworker's Subaru STi. In my 132 hp 1.8L, the only time the mpg centric 'gearing' really rears its head is on initial take off. After that, it is always in the power band (of sorts) and a joy to drive. The cvt equipped STi is obviously never flat footed.

I've owned:
AT
Manual
Twin Clutch
CVT

some good, some ehh.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
As to traffic my Nissan (diesel) is fine in traffic. Can pull away from a stop just by letting the clutch out.

Buzz boxes which need revs and slip are really a PITA in traffic, but become much more user friendly on hills than their auto counterparts.

 

[fdcg27]

You make a very good point.
Torqueless screamers, like the 318i and many older Hondas work best with a manual gearbox.
For cars with power peaks at lower revs, an automatic is just fine.
It is very entertaining to drive a small engine screamer, though.
Another advantage of something like a 318i is that you can run it hard whenever you feel like it and not do terrible violence to the speed limits.
Try that with your M235i.
Speed itself isn't really much of a factor in driving entertainment to me. It's more a matter of the proportion of the car's capabilities that you use and more is usually better.
I'd find something like a Corvette of the past couple of generation very frustrating to drive simply because you wouldn't be able to use much of the car's capabilities very often, unless you tracked it.

 

[GMFan]

Stick shifts are fine in traffic. It's just that people don't know how to properly drive in traffic. I can drive miles in traffic without shifting out of 1st gear by simply leaving proper following distance in front of me. Meanwhile you've got the auto drivers mashing the gas and brake so they can stay 2 feet behind the bumper in front of them.

 

[Andrew1972]

I actually enjoy the 5 speed auto in my mdx coupled to a 300hp v6 as its very responsive and well sorted.

I also enjoy the pure mechanical bliss of 5 speed manual legacy wagon with a wrx engine.

Some vehicles are not better manual including recent generation Toyota Camry and Corolla. The manual did not do much for either and I did not enjoy driving them anymore. Toyota did not try.

 

[splinter]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
They need to get their Corvette running properly and/or learn how to drive it! 16 second 1/4 mile? FAIL!

lol yup!

I'd rather pilot that 'slow' stick shift 'Vette with skinny tires than a Camry for my weekend cruises.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I've never understood the allure of the dumbed down modern manual transmissions. There is no particular skill involved in driving a modern, synchronized manual transmission. They've been designed to be easy to operate; anyone can do it and it takes no special skills.

Non-synchronized transmission? Sure, there's a fair amount of skill involved to get the timing right. I suspect that most of the chest-thumpers that brag about their manual transmission skills wouldn't be able to drive a vehicle with a non-synchronized manual transmission, nor would they be able to operate something a bit more complicated like a triplex.


You say this time and time again, and it indicates time and time again that you totally miss the mark in why people like MTs.

Let's recall:
-lower acquisition and lifecycle cost of the vehicle
-lower repair/overhaul cost, if such a cost is ever encountered
-lower mass
-more control for coasting, idling, etc.
-more control for gear selection and powerband (can be to a fault if you select wrong)

Amongst others.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: madRiver
Some vehicles are not better manual including recent generation Toyota Camry and Corolla. The manual did not do much for either and I did not enjoy driving them anymore. Toyota did not try.

Besides being fairly reliable couches on wheels, there are plenty of other things that these cars don't do well. It's fairly obnoxious to try to evoke a sporty image to dupe the public into what they want to see to feel "cool", yet completely not deliver.

Originally Posted By: GMFan
Stick shifts are fine in traffic. It's just that people don't know how to properly drive in traffic. I can drive miles in traffic without shifting out of 1st gear by simply leaving proper following distance in front of me. Meanwhile you've got the auto drivers mashing the gas and brake so they can stay 2 feet behind the bumper in front of them.

I agree to a point. I drove >100k in primarily heavy traffic (NYC and DC) in my 318i and never had a single issue. Whe I'd drive my wife's integra, and to a far lesser extent, my Saab, in traffic, the gear spacing and utility of first and second when creeping and crawling was a big difference. The 318 would go from a near stop in second gear without any issue. The integra would stall if you tried that, yet, first gear would be like 3000 rpm. A good set of gearing and a good clutch action, and flywheel, makes a major difference...

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You make a very good point.
Torqueless screamers, like the 318i and many older Hondas work best with a manual gearbox.
For cars with power peaks at lower revs, an automatic is just fine.
It is very entertaining to drive a small engine screamer, though.
Another advantage of something like a 318i is that you can run it hard whenever you feel like it and not do terrible violence to the speed limits.
Try that with your M235i.
Speed itself isn't really much of a factor in driving entertainment to me. It's more a matter of the proportion of the car's capabilities that you use and more is usually better.
I'd find something like a Corvette of the past couple of generation very frustrating to drive simply because you wouldn't be able to use much of the car's capabilities very often, unless you tracked it.


I agree. And that's an excellent point; the ti is a ball to thrash on the street- one of many reasons that I'm never selling it. However, at HPDEs I almost developed Carpal Tunnel Syndrome from giving point-bys to the other instructors. The 2er should level that playing field to a substantial degree.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You make a very good point.
Torqueless screamers, like the 318i and many older Hondas work best with a manual gearbox.
For cars with power peaks at lower revs, an automatic is just fine.
It is very entertaining to drive a small engine screamer, though.
Another advantage of something like a 318i is that you can run it hard whenever you feel like it and not do terrible violence to the speed limits.
Try that with your M235i.
Speed itself isn't really much of a factor in driving entertainment to me. It's more a matter of the proportion of the car's capabilities that you use and more is usually better.
I'd find something like a Corvette of the past couple of generation very frustrating to drive simply because you wouldn't be able to use much of the car's capabilities very often, unless you tracked it.


I agree. And that's an excellent point; the ti is a ball to thrash on the street- one of many reasons that I'm never selling it. However, at HPDEs I almost developed Carpal Tunnel Syndrome from giving point-bys to the other instructors. The 2er should level that playing field to a substantial degree.

Indeed.

 

[dlayman]

Originally Posted By: TomYoung
I went to a Honda dealer recently and asked to see a stick Civic. The saleswoman told me that she had not heard that any were being built.


There will be more stick Civis available as Honda is going to make them available on all models, instead of just the base. I disagree about lack of demand being the problem. The last three Civics I bought have been sticks. Each time I had to wait for one to arrive, because they all sell as soon as or before they hit the lot. Tons of automatics, CVT, sitting around.

 

[emg]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
what engine was that then, and what traffic conditions? you really shouldn't be changing gears on the highway at all, top gear all the way.


Some kind of turbo diesel, so it only had power from about 2000-3500 rpm. Put it in 5th, and the slightest incline required changing back to 4th to get back into the power band.