Shotgun Ammo

[GMFan]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
you guys must live in some scary neighborhoods.


Dr. William Petit thought his community with million dollar homes was safe. On July 23, 2007, it wasn't. He was severely beaten while his wife and young daughters were raped and then burned to death, all while he was unconscious and tied up in the basement.

These kinds of crimes happen EVERY DAY in America. Some just get more attention than others.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/07/nyregion/07slay.html?ref=petitfamily&_r=0


Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
you guys must live in some scary neighborhoods.


Channon Christian and Christopher Newsome went out on the town for a night of fun. Instead they both were anally raped, tortured, male genitals cut off, breast cut off, large unknown object shoved up their anuses, bleach poured down their throats, shot, stabbed, and suffocated to death. They thought their neighborhood was safe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom


This pretty much sums up the reason every American should have equal opportunity under the law to own and possess firearms. The Police are NOT legally required to help you in an emergency...you must protect yourself.

I hope and pray I never have to defend myself in my own home but if it comes down to it and they're kicking down the door to my bedroom looking to do anything remote to what happened to the innocents in the above stories if I die it will be defending myself. Like the member above in law enforcement said cops are always minutes away when seconds count.

The above stories are just two examples of why Americans sleep with a shotgun under the bed.

 

[default]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: default
It rather poor legal practice to point/fire a gun at somebody without full intentions of killing them


You never INTEND to kill them. You intend to stop them. Killing them is a byproduct of stopping them.


Maybe that works in Florida, up here if you point a gun at somebody, you better [censored] kill them. Or its going to be a long day in court, at best.

 

[Smoky14]

Anytime a bullet leaves the barrel toward another person; a law suite follows.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Smoky14
Anytime a bullet leaves the barrel toward another person; a law suite follows.
Can't sue in FL after a good self defense shoot.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Can't sue in FL after a good self defense shoot.


Yep, written into the law. If a person is immune from prosecution, they are also immune from civil liability.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Smoky14
Anytime a bullet leaves the barrel toward another person; a law suite follows.
Can't sue in FL after a good self defense shoot.

What about a bad self defense shot?

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Smoky14
Anytime a bullet leaves the barrel toward another person; a law suite follows.
Can't sue in FL after a good self defense shoot.

What about a bad self defense shot?
You're probably already in jail.

 

[GMFan]

Today I ordered the following online from Cabellas:

- Rem oil for oiling
- Swabs for 12gauge barrel
- 12 gauge Hoppes Tornado Brush
- 300 cleaning pads
- 54" Cabellas Shotgun softcase
- Attachable flashlight
- Nylon stock shell carrier

Now comes practice. I will be going to the range to get used to firing a shotgun. I also plan on taking a tactical shotgun training course.

I'm still on the fence about loading my shotgun with #4 buck or #00 buck for home defense. Right now I have federal #4buck loaded in. I've watched some Massad Ayoob videos and I believe him to be very knowledgeable and he claims stopping power is most important in home defense...meaning stopping the person where they stand and that would imply all force is expelled rather than over penetration. Either way I don't feel confident at all until I take and practice at the range. There is a disconcerting feeling upon relying on a gun I have to practice with.

Either way I am waiting on the cleaning products to give the 870 a thorough cleaning and oiling prior to firing for the first time. The Hoppes kit I bought unfortunately did not come with a brush and swab.

 

[Smoky14]

May you never have to fire a shot in anger, there is a lot of residue that comes with it.

Smoky

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: Smoky14
May you never have to fire a shot in anger, there is a lot of residue that comes with it.

Smoky


Dare I say that you shouldn't fire in anger anyway...

 

[Smoky14]

Figure of speech Eric, but then I'm sure you knew that.

Smoky

 

[strat81]

Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
For home defense, use standard 2 3/4" #1 buckshot or low recoil 2 3/4" 00 buckshot. Never use birdshot for home defense.


I generally agree with 147_Grain.

First, never use birdshot for self-defense or hunting large game. It is for shooting brids, not 200 pound convicts high on PCP.

#1 buck is generally superior to 00 buck as it still provides adequate penetration yet produces more wound channels than 00 buck since there are more pellets in a comparable #1 buck load compared to 00 buck.

The caveat here is that #1 buck is hard to find and more expensive compared to 00 buck.

#4 does not reliably meet the minimum 12" of penetration in ballistic gelatin standard the FBI uses. Remember that if you need to stop a threat, the projectile may have to go through heavy clothing like a leather jacket, bone, and heavy muscle mass before it can stop the threat.

The other issue is that 00 buck is available in "better" loads. That is, 00 buck is found in low recoil loads as well as loads with modern wads that produce tighter patterns. Tight patterns are a good thing for home defense as you want all projectiles to hit their intended target, not miss by a few inches and cause collateral damage.

Federal loads 00 buck with the Flite Control wad. Hornady uses the same wad under the Versatite name. Hornady Critical Defense and TAP FPD 00buck loads are identical expect for the hull color and both use the Versatite wad. Federal has Flite Control loads in their hunting line as well as their Law Enforcement line. I think the LE line also has a low-recoil Flite Control load.

I have some Hornady Critical Defense in the safe for my SX2. It patterns extremely well out of my gun and it was available. I've tried the Federal stuff and it patterned well for me too. That said, I prefer an AR15 over a shotgun for home defense, but based on your location I'm going to guess that isn't a feasible option for you.

Avoid cheap buckshot for serious use as it patterns poorly. For practice, it's fine.

If you have "sticky" extraction from your 870, polish the chamber. Wrap an old .45 cal brush with some 0000 steel wool, put it on a cleaning rod, chuck it in a drill, put some Flitz metal polish on there, and clean it up. My old 870 needed this to work reliably with cheap Winchester Universal and Rio birdshot.

Practice. Despite the myths, a 12ga pump is an expert's weapon. Recoil is significant which hampers follow-up shots, reloading is slow, capacity is low, and it is very easy to induce a malfunction via "short stroking". Practice, practice, practice.

 

[default]

Federal began loading #1 buck in their flight control wads a while back on account of demand. No idea if its still available or if it is, if you can buy it anywhere anymore.

 

[GMFan]

I am cleaning my shotgun and am not sure what oils to use. In typical BITOG fashion I want to know which oil to use for which application:

I have:

Rem-oil
Hoppes No. 9 Solvent
Hoppes No. 9 Lubricating Oil

The two Hoppes oils came in a cleaning kit. The No. 9 Solvent directions indicate it is to clean the barrel. What is the Lubricating Oil for? Is this what I use to oil the action?

This is the Hoppes kit I have. I also bought a 12gauge brush and swabs to use.

http://www.hoppes.com/cleaning-kits/shotgun-cleaning-kit-with-rod

 

[GMFan]

I think I figured it all out. I used solvent through the barrell and parts needing cleaning and then lightly oiled the parts that needed oil. I could see the parts where they applied oil from the factory and followed suit. So now it is freshly oiled.

 

[jennings]

A Limbsaver butt pad will make your range practice much more tolerable. My Mossburg 500 was miserable, after 10 rounds, before the pad change. I think I could shoot it all day, now.

 

[GMFan]

I am going to the range Saturday morning to shoot #8 shot, #4buck, #00buck and slugs for practice. I'd like to try some shots of each. I will report back when I return and let everyone know how it went. Thanks again to all for the great advice.

My 870 came with a soft rubber pad at the end of the stock. I'm assuming this should help some.

 

[dwcopple]

Originally Posted By: GMFan
My 870 came with a soft rubber pad at the end of the stock. I'm assuming this should help some.
they all do. Adding a second one is when the relief comes. I put a slip on Pachmayr over the stock rubber one on my Mossy 500. Plus I have long arms and like the increased length of pull.

 

[Tom NJ]

I have the same shotgun (Remington 870, 12 ga, 18" barrel) and have also struggled with what ammo to use for home defense. When I bought the gun, I was advised that #4 bird shot was adequate for short range defense, so I bought a box. Upon further study I learned that #4 bird would likely stop most threats if the bad guy is not wearing a heavy coat, if he is not high on drugs or adrenaline, and if you hit him in the right place.

But when it comes to saving my and my wife's lives, words like "likely" and "most" and "if" just aren't good enough. You must be prepared for the worst case threat, and be able to stop that threat with one shot, as you may not get a second shot. I now keep my gun loaded with Fiocchi's nickel plated, low recoil 00 Buckshot. It patterns nicely, giving a 4" spread at 6 yards, and 7" at 10 yards, and blasts right through a 2x6 at 10 yards. It may be too much fire power for people who live near their neighbors or have children in the house, but since I live in the country with just my wife I have no issues with it.

I'm not the macho sort who wants to blow an intruder's head off just because he violated my space. In fact I don't want to kill anyone, but I also don't want to die, and when it comes to selecting a balance between the two, I favor my life. I might risk my life to save a loved one, but I will not take on risk to save a bad guy invading my home. That means stopping the threat, fast, and birdshot cannot be relied upon to do that.

Tom NJ

 

[GMFan]

Tom, good choice with the 870. I was stuck between the Mossberg 500 (I liked the safety location) and the 870, but the 870 just *felt* better for me. This is the one I got: Remington 870 Express Tactical. I chose a regular stock as I found it more comfortable than a pistol grip. I love the drilled and tapped receiver on this gun as it allows for future add-ons/toys.

I originally loaded #4buck in my tube but now it has #00 loaded in it after hours upon hours of research on what shells to use. I came to the conclusion, no compromises when it comes to the first shot.

I've read the Federal #00 buckshot patterns nice and tight and is a favorite among many for HD.