Pretend it's a perfect world: are you seriously crazy about "louvers". Yes or no, no in between
Round holes AND louvers! Oh the humanity!
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Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Bottom line is if the filters are restrictive they don"t flow as well and they are in bypass more often. Thats the way it works. It seems Some of these filter companies slow the flow so they don"t have to spend more on a better quality media.. Again like i said in my previous post im not a tribologist but i am not stupid either small holes equal less flow in many cases...Period!
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Pretend its a perfect world and all the louvers are all punched correctly.. Can you answer the question now?
"Small holes will only equal less flow" if the restriction of the oil filter is so great that it makes the positive oil pump hit pressure relief. The whole concept of oil flow through an engine has to revolve around the positive displacement oil pump in the equation. ALL flow coming out of the oil pump WILL got through the engine as long as the oil pump is NOT in pressure relief. It's possible that not all of that flow will go through the filter's media and get filtered if the bypass valve is open, but in the end all of that oil will still go through the engine. People need to firmly grasp the whole functionality of the positive displacement oil pump to have meaningful discussions about supposed "flow restriction" through the oil filter.
In a perfect world where all louvers were well punched open, the center tube will have less pressure drop (meaning it flows better) than a center tube with holes. That's because the total area of all the louvers put together will likely be more than the total area of all the holes put together. The very basic/simple fact to remember is that MORE flow AREA means less restriction and less pressure drop given the same flow rate/volume.
Now IF the louvers were barely opened up, then it could cause the flow to become restricted which means the pressure drop across the center tube will be higher ... and yes that could cause the bypass valve to open quicker with more flow and/or more media contamination/loading.
There is no way filter designers are purposely adjusting louver opening to "control" the flow through the center tube to help protect the media. If the center tube is way less restrictive than the media (which it will be), then the only thing that protects the media from failure is the bypass valve, and of course the actual properties/strength of the media when there is a delta pressure put across it from the oil flow, as well as the physical spacing of the pleats - as we see with the Purolators that tear media.
Bottom line is if the filters are restrictive they don"t flow as well and they are in bypass more often. Thats the way it works. It seems Some of these filter companies slow the flow so they don"t have to spend more on a better quality media.. Again like i said in my previous post im not a tribologist but i am not stupid either small holes equal less flow in many cases...Period!
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Pretend its a perfect world and all the louvers are all punched correctly.. Can you answer the question now?
"Small holes will only equal less flow" if the restriction of the oil filter is so great that it makes the positive oil pump hit pressure relief. The whole concept of oil flow through an engine has to revolve around the positive displacement oil pump in the equation. ALL flow coming out of the oil pump WILL got through the engine as long as the oil pump is NOT in pressure relief. It's possible that not all of that flow will go through the filter's media and get filtered if the bypass valve is open, but in the end all of that oil will still go through the engine. People need to firmly grasp the whole functionality of the positive displacement oil pump to have meaningful discussions about supposed "flow restriction" through the oil filter.
In a perfect world where all louvers were well punched open, the center tube will have less pressure drop (meaning it flows better) than a center tube with holes. That's because the total area of all the louvers put together will likely be more than the total area of all the holes put together. The very basic/simple fact to remember is that MORE flow AREA means less restriction and less pressure drop given the same flow rate/volume.
Now IF the louvers were barely opened up, then it could cause the flow to become restricted which means the pressure drop across the center tube will be higher ... and yes that could cause the bypass valve to open quicker with more flow and/or more media contamination/loading.
There is no way filter designers are purposely adjusting louver opening to "control" the flow through the center tube to help protect the media. If the center tube is way less restrictive than the media (which it will be), then the only thing that protects the media from failure is the bypass valve, and of course the actual properties/strength of the media when there is a delta pressure put across it from the oil flow, as well as the physical spacing of the pleats - as we see with the Purolators that tear media.
You say it would function correctly ?? Just curious based on what?? And im not talking about blowing an engine i never said that i did mention going into bypass and not filtering the oil but never said anything in this thread about a blown engine.
You said in your words "If filter was Purolator; then there's 50/50% chance of filter tearin apart LOL!"
So back to my original question can you answer that question and be 100% sure?
You said in your words "If filter was Purolator; then there's 50/50% chance of filter tearin apart LOL!"
So back to my original question can you answer that question and be 100% sure?
Louvers make better laminar flow (less induced drag), less turbulence, less aeration. Much better design.
Yes for god sake!!!!!! It would function fine!!!! Get a LIFE for cryin out loud!!! LOUVWRS OR HOLES; who in the he** cares??
Yes, 110% sure and I'm not gonna play your 2 year old games anymore; notifying a moderator also
Well, crazyoildude knows not a thing about filters other than to say "I will not use louvers" and that's fine; just don't go spouting off feeding everyone your opinions. I have better stuff to worry about than a guy blowing garbage about louvers to a wonderful board like BITOG
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One more thing: everyone here other than crazyoildude can thank him cause now I have ten filters to cut and post I will not cause of his smart attitude and disrespect of me
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Still waiting on any VALID proof/evidence of the previously posited "molecular shearing" caused by the oil filter center tube.
Don't worry, crazyoildude will never prove that or anything for that matter LOL!
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Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
sayjac what scientific anything do you have to offer in this matter?? Bottom line is if the filters are restrictive they don"t flow as well and they are in bypass more often..
COD - what have YOU offered that even remotely proves the filter is restrictive? Have performed some repeatable ISO or ASTM standardized tests to set the baseline then tested against other filters to see if there is actually a problem? No, you have not or at least if you have you have not posted the results. You have offered zero facts during this tirade against louvered oil filter center tubes and how (supposedly) they are restrictive. Jim Allen did a lot of testing regardng DP and bypass events a few years ago and proved that bypass events happen far less often than one would like to believe. Post your tests results so that we can be educated--opinions mean little without something to substantiate them.
sayjac what scientific anything do you have to offer in this matter?? Bottom line is if the filters are restrictive they don"t flow as well and they are in bypass more often..
COD - what have YOU offered that even remotely proves the filter is restrictive? Have performed some repeatable ISO or ASTM standardized tests to set the baseline then tested against other filters to see if there is actually a problem? No, you have not or at least if you have you have not posted the results. You have offered zero facts during this tirade against louvered oil filter center tubes and how (supposedly) they are restrictive. Jim Allen did a lot of testing regardng DP and bypass events a few years ago and proved that bypass events happen far less often than one would like to believe. Post your tests results so that we can be educated--opinions mean little without something to substantiate them.
Ehh, never mind. This thread has turned so rock stupid as to not even be worth commenting on.
2015_PSD: with the highest bit of respect, crazyoildude does NOT know a thing about filters and how they are made. I [censored] him off and he retaliated like a little girl. My work; yea we use some FRAM tough guards and some Baldwins that have louvers and never ever had 0 issues. He whined about SOPUS oil jugs and now he's into louvers. SMH
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Neither will you 51 but thanks for the laughs... Notify who you want because i did nothing wrong.. Keep using your louver filters and have a great day.. Funny stuff.
Yeah car 51 is the know it all about filters not that it matters...When he does not know an answer he cries "im calling the moderator..Again no hard feelings 51 but thank you for the laughs..
Im not going to argue about this any longer we all have our beliefs and it's all good im ending my input on this subject.. If you want to continue the back and forth you are welcome to e mail me. It's just not fair to others here. No hard feelings. I have ended my participation in this particular thread. Thank You for the laughs.
I'm glad I can't hear your [censored] so go in and tell stories about
Me as I can't see u. Funny you used group 7 filters for years then u woke up. You're so full of it it's not funny; it's a [censored] am joke
Me as I can't see u. Funny you used group 7 filters for years then u woke up. You're so full of it it's not funny; it's a [censored] am joke
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