All the induatrial accounts that use RLI might not think that a kitchen sink product made it past their testing and acceptance trials. Those people know something about lubrication, too.
Renewable Lubricates Inc (Interested)
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Just for clarification:
Kitchen sink does NOT mean BAD. Kitchen sink means, everything, every additive used except the "kitchen sink".
I NEVER said people using RLI don't know anything about lubrication. Please.
Kitchen sink does NOT mean BAD. Kitchen sink means, everything, every additive used except the "kitchen sink".
I NEVER said people using RLI don't know anything about lubrication. Please.
Pablo, of course you are free to make statements. I do question their factuality.
1) Fact, it is not the high viscosity in the RLI formulation that is reducing fuel dilution. There is a specific reason that I am bound by NDA not to reveal.
2) Fact, RLI can be mixed with other base oils, in fact, there is quite an interesting mix of synthetic, semi-synthetic and non-synthetic oils in the 5W-40 formulation that I am not at liberty to divulge.
3) Fact, there will be issues with any two oils with different additive packages when mixed. There are interactions which Mola has discussed in the past. Additive clash is a real problem with most oil mixtures.
4) Fact, in operation in engines, and in standardized tests, there are no separation of components.
5) Fact, in testing that I cannot divulge, specific RLI motor oils have outperformed all other commercial oils in oxidation and other standardized test protocols.
This oil has gotten the attention of a variety of concerns in the automotive and lubrication industry.
So much secrecy...must be someone figures they'll get rich quick...afraid we'll steal their data and make a Super Secret All-Powerful Oil... $
As I recall, RLI is ~30% HOBS and the rest PAO or other base oils (as RI RS4 said). I'm still on the fence as to whether this is for a real gain in performance or mostly for marketing purposes.
Additives are very catty to each other and if they are caught with a faux-pas style (additive outfit clash) then just sit back and watch the claws and fur fly! Bad situation when an additives shoes clash with their blazer.
I did NOT say it's the ONLY reason. But I maintain it is the MAIN reason. Sure there are some nice anti-oxidants in there too, I don't doubt. I would have loved to see another 16+ cSt oil used in your evaluation.
Why couldn't you divulge if you mixed RLI with other manufacturer's oils? That doesn't make sense. I'm not saying it won't mix with any other oils anyway, I'm just saying it's an unknown.
Agree.
Not exactly what I have come to know. Probably not a problem in any engine out there, but how about at NOACK type temperatures. Will you honestly tell me there has never been any issues at the end of a NOACK test?
So why not publish? You sure know a lot for a guy that doesn't work for them, but RLI should publish these tests in a white paper or something.
RLI has told me they will send some research articles regarding their oils but I have not gotten them as yet.
Like all the other oil companies, RLI is very closed mouth about the specifics of their motor oil products. I have talked to them in the past but was not convinced that I should give them a try. As time has past I have gotten enough evidence to make a decision.
I have ordered their 0W20 to put in the Murcielago, this instead of the Motorcraft oil. I believe there is no VII in there. The VI is 178. It has the best fluidity at 75 F (I am told). There are people who think it is better than the Red Line product line as a PCMO and possibly as a racing oil as well.
aehaas
Like all the other oil companies, RLI is very closed mouth about the specifics of their motor oil products. I have talked to them in the past but was not convinced that I should give them a try. As time has past I have gotten enough evidence to make a decision.
I have ordered their 0W20 to put in the Murcielago, this instead of the Motorcraft oil. I believe there is no VII in there. The VI is 178. It has the best fluidity at 75 F (I am told). There are people who think it is better than the Red Line product line as a PCMO and possibly as a racing oil as well.
aehaas
Doc I think we all would love a full VOA on this aswell as UOA after.
Thanks
bruce
Not to thread hijack but there's alot of opinions on this board ....
For a sump that takes 8.5 qts, what oil would you mix that is off the shelf or easily available OTC with 6 quarts of the 5W40 onhand.
Currently running a test of the 5W40 in my BMW M54. I ended up draining 2 qts and toppping it off.
So now, I'm 2 qts shy of another OCI...and don't intend to mailorder just 2 qts of oil. The only other oil I have on my shelves is GC and 2 old bottles of penzoil dino.
For a sump that takes 8.5 qts, what oil would you mix that is off the shelf or easily available OTC with 6 quarts of the 5W40 onhand.
Currently running a test of the 5W40 in my BMW M54. I ended up draining 2 qts and toppping it off.
So now, I'm 2 qts shy of another OCI...and don't intend to mailorder just 2 qts of oil. The only other oil I have on my shelves is GC and 2 old bottles of penzoil dino.
Ah, someone else that will try it out & get data for us instead of the usual. Thank you AEHaas.
Pablo,
So, if Terry told you that viscosity was not the main reason for surviving fuel dilution, you wouldn't believe it? What is with the resistance to a very new & different oil? Pretty much all of us admit that we don't know everything especially when it comes to UOAs but someone of Terry's stature comes on here & tells us how great it is & we don't believe him. Folks didn't have any problem believing him on the GC or the Penzoil Platinum. Why is that? Now I understand, Pablo, skepticism of new products, but we have very well documented UOA data for this oil (albeit only in the HD flavor) and Terry to back this stuff up, including running it in his vehicle(s). I don't understand the lingering doubts. What am I missing? Didn't mean to come off as so gruff earlier.
Pablo,
So, if Terry told you that viscosity was not the main reason for surviving fuel dilution, you wouldn't believe it? What is with the resistance to a very new & different oil? Pretty much all of us admit that we don't know everything especially when it comes to UOAs but someone of Terry's stature comes on here & tells us how great it is & we don't believe him. Folks didn't have any problem believing him on the GC or the Penzoil Platinum. Why is that? Now I understand, Pablo, skepticism of new products, but we have very well documented UOA data for this oil (albeit only in the HD flavor) and Terry to back this stuff up, including running it in his vehicle(s). I don't understand the lingering doubts. What am I missing? Didn't mean to come off as so gruff earlier.
chef,
Why not order enough so that you can do 2 OCIs back:back for a cleaner UOA? I wonder about their ATF for you?
Why not order enough so that you can do 2 OCIs back:back for a cleaner UOA? I wonder about their ATF for you?
Pablo,
Again, and I repeat, the high viscosity is not the MAIN reason that fuel dilution is lower. I am not at liberty to tell you why. If you'd like to run the experiment with another high viscosity oil, feel free to contact another RS4 owner and have them run some experiments for you.
As for mixing oils, BioSyn is already a mixture. I am quite aware of the base oils used in the formulation of their 5W-40 HD, since I paid for it's development, and can tell you there are enough components in the oil for me to be confident that it will mix with Ester, PAO and non-synth oils. I've not personally mixed BioSyn with any other oil, since that would be silly.
All standardized testing on BioSyn shows a lack of component separation. As far as I am aware, that includes NOACK tests. There may very well be some "special properties" of this formulation that led to the result which JAG reported.
I cannot publish testing that was paid for by 3rd parties, and I have heard about through the grapevine. There are tests performed that I am aware of that were not sponsored by RLI.
As for my relationship to them, I am totally independent. I know quite a bit because I hired Terry Dyson as a consultant and am under NDA with him. That NDA extends to what he shares with me regarding RLI.
Again, and I repeat, the high viscosity is not the MAIN reason that fuel dilution is lower. I am not at liberty to tell you why. If you'd like to run the experiment with another high viscosity oil, feel free to contact another RS4 owner and have them run some experiments for you.
As for mixing oils, BioSyn is already a mixture. I am quite aware of the base oils used in the formulation of their 5W-40 HD, since I paid for it's development, and can tell you there are enough components in the oil for me to be confident that it will mix with Ester, PAO and non-synth oils. I've not personally mixed BioSyn with any other oil, since that would be silly.
All standardized testing on BioSyn shows a lack of component separation. As far as I am aware, that includes NOACK tests. There may very well be some "special properties" of this formulation that led to the result which JAG reported.
I cannot publish testing that was paid for by 3rd parties, and I have heard about through the grapevine. There are tests performed that I am aware of that were not sponsored by RLI.
As for my relationship to them, I am totally independent. I know quite a bit because I hired Terry Dyson as a consultant and am under NDA with him. That NDA extends to what he shares with me regarding RLI.
Times change...needs change.
I think at this point in time, I may just keep the car another 2 years. So yes, another run with the 2 qts would be more consistent, but at $10+ including shipping per quart, I would lean on something I can get here locally if the car's not a keeper. I ordered enough for 2 OCI when I ordered the oil as shipping was more *economical* per qt.
On the ATF....no one's chimed in on my post, and I'm still putting it's through it's paces. It's not consistent enough for me to notice it, but I do notice it between 2/3rd gear occasionally.
I think at this point in time, I may just keep the car another 2 years. So yes, another run with the 2 qts would be more consistent, but at $10+ including shipping per quart, I would lean on something I can get here locally if the car's not a keeper. I ordered enough for 2 OCI when I ordered the oil as shipping was more *economical* per qt.
On the ATF....no one's chimed in on my post, and I'm still putting it's through it's paces. It's not consistent enough for me to notice it, but I do notice it between 2/3rd gear occasionally.
Quote:
So much secrecy...must be someone figures they'll get rich quick...afraid we'll steal their data and make a Super Secret All-Powerful Oil... $
Well, this is a Double-Super Secret Racing Oil made in America.
Blending with RLI may not be the preferred method here, but it is a necessity when your wallet is shallow, engine capacity is greater than 4qts., and that gallon you ordered cost $50. Shipping costs!
I'm supposed to be saving money by doing my own OC's. Then came BITOG!
Good to know a blend won't hurt...
I'm supposed to be saving money by doing my own OC's. Then came BITOG!
Good to know a blend won't hurt...
Quote:
Blending with RLI may not be the preferred method here, but it is a necessity when your wallet is shallow, engine capacity is greater than 4qts., and that gallon you ordered cost $50. Shipping costs!
I'm supposed to be saving money by doing my own OC's. Then came BITOG!
Good to know a blend won't hurt...
Blend away and have fun!
Because I, for one, speak to people who are at the very least on par with Terry. Terry is good, but he is not G0D. I guess I just need more independent analysis and a more "apples to apples" comparison. In particular here's a couple more things that bug me (some of you may have heard these before)
1) As mentioned, comparing a low SAPS, light 5W-40 such as AFL to a highly additized very heavy 5(?)W-40+ and saying the heavy oil did great, may be 100% truthful, and the result the tester was after, but can this information be abstracted and applied to Honda van?
2) This HD RLI "5W-40" with viscosity pushing into SAE 50 territory - is it really and truly a 5W? The outside experts I speak with, struggle with this. To get a non-VII containing PAO 10W-40 is difficult, let alone a 5W-40 PAO with 30% HOBS in it. I just have natural unanswered doubts. IMHO this oil, the RLI HD 5W-40 is more likely a true 15W-50. If I had independent test results I would be silent and loving the forward progress. I know nothing of their 0W-20, though.
3) I didn't like it either when GC was given a free ride, so again it's not an RLI thing. If you only knew he smack I've been through with Amsoil products for 10+ years.
I am not discussing this to be a brutthole. I want open honest truth.
Balancing Lubricant Properties with Vegetable Oil and PAO Blends
Ken Hope, Chevron Phillips Chemical Co., Bill Garmier, Renewable Lubricants, Inc.
STLE, Philadelphia, PA, May 8, 2007
My interpretation of this article and some things said to me include the following:
There is no one perfect basestock but the focus is in providing a balance of the desired and deleterious properties.
Some interesting properties of mixing PAO with vegetable oils:
The PAO becomes much more biodegradable.
The best of viscosity index that maximizes start up properties at low temperatures and at STP (75 F).
Increased fluidity.
Improved volatility properties and flash points approaching that of ester formulations.
Wider operating range.
Lower viscous drag resulting in more MPG and power for a given SAE grade.
Very high viscosity index giving improved energy efficiency.
aehaas
Ken Hope, Chevron Phillips Chemical Co., Bill Garmier, Renewable Lubricants, Inc.
STLE, Philadelphia, PA, May 8, 2007
My interpretation of this article and some things said to me include the following:
There is no one perfect basestock but the focus is in providing a balance of the desired and deleterious properties.
Some interesting properties of mixing PAO with vegetable oils:
The PAO becomes much more biodegradable.
The best of viscosity index that maximizes start up properties at low temperatures and at STP (75 F).
Increased fluidity.
Improved volatility properties and flash points approaching that of ester formulations.
Wider operating range.
Lower viscous drag resulting in more MPG and power for a given SAE grade.
Very high viscosity index giving improved energy efficiency.
aehaas
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