Removing and prepping - old paper gaskets

[JHZR2]

Old as in 35 years old. Like I was barely alive when it was made...

It is an OE Reinz gasket on my 81 240D oil pan. It started seeping, a lot, so it was time for a change.

Most of it came off well and easily. It was a perfect clean break from the engine block... But was stuck well to the pan...

They obviously used some adhesive or sealant around the holes to prevent leaks...

This kind of residue:

I tried a few things - white paper towels, blue paper towels, some solvents, and a razor blade. The towels were too linty, the solvents helped a bit, but the razor was really what was needed.

After scraping, flushing with some aerosol solvent to help get rid of lint, then blasting with compressed air, it looked ok.

I used Indian head shellac on both sides. I applied to the pan, then set the gasket, then applied to the gasket and bolted the pan up. Smells like natural vanilla extract!

Things looked good up above...

So, please critique. Should I have done something else to prep the pan, given the residues left on there? It was easy to start scratching away the paint in the pan if not careful, so depth control was an issue. I'm not sure a wire brush or some such thing would have helped in that regard.

Comments? Critiques?

 

[Chris142]

Wire wheel on a grinder then straighten the dings where the bolts go

 

[Trav]

I would have done it just the way you did. Indian Head is the correct product for these gaskets.

 

[Merkava_4]

What I do is lay the gasket on a newspaper and coat one side of the gasket with Permatex 2B. Then I place the gasket on the pan and coat the other side of the gasket. The idea is to seal the gasket from exposure to the oil. The oil pan itself doesn't need sealing.

 

[spasm3]

On a steel pan, i've used the wire wheel on the bench grinder. On aluminum i would not do that.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Wire wheel on a grinder then straighten the dings where the bolts go


Dings?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What I do is lay the gasket on a newspaper and coat one side of the gasket with Permatex 2B. Then I place the gasket on the pan and coat the other side of the gasket. The idea is to seal the gasket from exposure to the oil. The oil pan itself doesn't need sealing.

Not sure I catch your drift... Sounds the same except for coating one side of the job on the gasket vs the pan.

Only the slightest edge, that is as high as the thickness of the gasket itself, is exposed to oil. Are you saying that edge is what must be sealed?

Otherwise it seems like just a matter of technique and approach. Coating the pan or the gasket should have the same effect when it is torqued together, no? I figured the pan was easier to coat and handle. For the other side, I coated the gasket itself, not the metal on the block...

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Wire wheel on a grinder then straighten the dings where the bolts go


Dings?


I think he means where someone may have over-tightened bolts and bent the lip of the pan at the bolt holes. A piece of glass is good to set it on and see if its out of whack.

 

[marc1]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2


Comments? Critiques?



Looks like you do fine work.

 

[bvance554]

Looks good. I haven't seen a bottle of that stuff in nearly 35 years. I didn't even know they still made it. Dad always had a bottle in 'hardly ever used' drawer in the garage.

 

[double vanos]

Thanks for the heads up on Indian Head gasket sealer. Gonna get some next time I'm in the auto parts store.

 

[Kool1]

I wonder if your Reinz gaskets are the same as Victor Reinz gaskets. I really like Victor Reinz gaskets and have been using the exclusively. I find Victor Reinz more like O.E. than Fel-Pro.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Not sure I catch your drift... Sounds the same except for coating one side of the job on the gasket vs the pan.

Only the slightest edge, that is as high as the thickness of the gasket itself, is exposed to oil. Are you saying that edge is what must be sealed?

Otherwise it seems like just a matter of technique and approach. Coating the pan or the gasket should have the same effect when it is torqued together, no? I figured the pan was easier to coat and handle. For the other side, I coated the gasket itself, not the metal on the block...


It would probably make more sense to you if we were talking about a paper water pump gasket. Paper when exposed to water loses its strength; we all know this by taking a paper bag full of groceries out into a downpour while it's raining. We can waterproof the gasket with a gasket sealer by coating both sides of the gasket (and the edges) with a good sealer like Permatex 2B. When I say "coating," I mean laying it on heavy like frosting a cake. That Indian Head sealer you used is not thick enough for me; I gotta have the thick stuff.

 

[RooflessVW]

You do not lay any adhesive or sealant heavy!

A little bit goes a very long way, and if your application doesn't specifically call for an adhesive or sealant, don't use any! I never understood why people go squirting Permatex all over any and everything and think it is proper procedure or even needed!

Please see the TDS regarding directions for use of Permatex Ultra Black: Permatex Ultra Black TDS

You'll note that it only specifies a 1/8' bead for making a gasket, and a very thin film if using in conjunction with an existing seal/gasket. Please use silicone responsibly... Won't someone think of the children???

 

[dlundblad]

Never heard of that Indian Head shellac. How do you like it?

I've always just used the Permatex gasket sealer. Comes in a pipe dope looking jar with a brush and is dark red in color.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I never understood why people go squirting Permatex all over any and everything and think it is proper procedure or even needed!


I've always used some form of sealant with a paper gasket.

The Permatex I used on my dad's 240z's oil pan a few weeks ago specially says it'll keep components from sticking upon removal.. And let me tell you, with it being 45 years old, everything was stuck and not fun to remove.

Theoretically, it'll prevent what OP had to deal with.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I've always used some form of sealant with a paper gasket.


That doesn't make it correct!

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Theoretically, it'll prevent what OP had to deal with.


How often do plan to remove the oil pan or other gasketed parts? How old is the Z? How old is the OP's 240D? Sounds like the gaskets are doing their job if they're hard to remove...

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Wire wheel on a grinder then straighten the dings where the bolts go


Dings?


I think he means where someone may have over-tightened bolts and bent the lip of the pan at the bolt holes. A piece of glass is good to set it on and see if its out of whack.


Aah, thanks. I torqued mine to 6 ft-lb.

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
You do not lay any adhesive or sealant heavy!

A little bit goes a very long way, and if your application doesn't specifically call for an adhesive or sealant, don't use any! I never understood why people go squirting Permatex all over any and everything and think it is proper procedure or even needed!

Please see the TDS regarding directions for use of Permatex Ultra Black: Permatex Ultra Black TDS

You'll note that it only specifies a 1/8' bead for making a gasket, and a very thin film if using in conjunction with an existing seal/gasket. Please use silicone responsibly... Won't someone think of the children???


If you put the permatex on too heavy, it will squish out all over the place (inside and out) when you tighten the bolts. My guess is that it would seal ok, though because the excess is not on the sealing surface anymore.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
You do not lay any adhesive or sealant heavy!

A little bit goes a very long way, and if your application doesn't specifically call for an adhesive or sealant, don't use any! I never understood why people go squirting Permatex all over any and everything and think it is proper procedure or even needed!

Please see the TDS regarding directions for use of Permatex Ultra Black: Permatex Ultra Black TDS

You'll note that it only specifies a 1/8' bead for making a gasket, and a very thin film if using in conjunction with an existing seal/gasket. Please use silicone responsibly... Won't someone think of the children???


I think we're talking about two different products. I'm talking about Permatex 2B - the dark brown stuff that's only removable with brake fluid. I paint it on with an acid brush thick enough to the point where I don't see the gasket through it. The actual measured thickness is probably no more than 1/32 of an inch.