Redline 5w-30?

[Garak]

Yes, or my old Audi 200 Turbo which had unreasonably optimistic 12,500 km severe service intervals on SJ conventional at the time, which would fit into your number three. Red Line 5w-30 would have been a better option, albeit massive overkill.

An HDEO with a shorter OCI did just fine.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Yes, or my old Audi 200 Turbo which had unreasonably optimistic 12,500 km severe service intervals on SJ conventional at the time, which would fit into your number three. Red Line 5w-30 would have been a better option, albeit massive overkill.

An HDEO with a shorter OCI did just fine.


Why are you using an unapproved oil in your Infiniti?!

 

[Garak]

Because I'm insane. I thought we already knew that.

Actually, I found some leftovers from when I had my Audi, and after checking with a certain resident expert to ensure my idea wasn't insane, I went with it. And, given that it's half the price of retail synthetics (and cheaper than some conventionals) in Canada's weird oil universe, I stuck with it. I had given away all my 15w-40, so that wasn't an option, plus it wouldn't be as suitable for the winter.

PYB's (which I ran for a long time in the G37) regular price at Walmart or Canadian Tire is about $28 a jug. Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 regularly priced from the Imperial Oil distributor is around $26 a jug, give or take. Ye, Walmart and Canadian Tire have sales. No, I don't want to compete with the old farts for oil on Friday mornings at the start of Canadian Tire's weekly sale, nor deal with the "people of Walmart."

Off topic, I got my brother a Walmart gift card for Christmas; he seems to like the place. A domestic dispute erupted in the parking lot on my way out. I've never seen a husband and wife get into a fight in the parking lot of Imperial Oil.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Garak
I'm with BobFout on this. While an approved lube is the preferred and most fail-safe option, it's not the only one. One can go out of spec with careful reasoning, and Red Line 5w-30 is much, much more a Euro type 5w-30 than a North American ILSAC 5w-30. Given prices in the States, I'd stick to M1 0w-40 or the like. But, if specified oils were unavailable for some hypothetical reason, and I were forced to choose outside the box, Red Line's higher HTHS stuff would be a very reasonable alternative.

My concern isn't about harm to the engine at all. My concern would be the price of Red Line.

Of course, if for whatever reason I did not have a chance to get my hands on approved oil, I would go with whatever is best. Like I said before, I have no doubt RL is good oil, maybe even better, who knows, but it is indicative that they are not having any approval from anyone. I do believe that their oils would do good, probably provide better cold starting capabilities, protect turbo etc, but I think due to additive pack, they actually cannot meet standards. Are those deposits or something else, who knows.
And that is the point, why paying $11.95 for 1qt of RL when you can get 5qt of M1 0W40 for $26?

 

[Garak]

Well, they do have a pile of moly, and they don't really promote long drains. If it were me and I were in a pickle with no GC or M1 0w-40, well, a Red Line product would be a choice that I could, conceivably, get locally, albeit at a high price. They don't chase much of anything with respect to specifications, and do cater to a more niche market.

As an aside, NAPA Canada is finally listing PUP Euro 0w-40 and 5w-40 - whatever that might mean, precisely - in EcoBoxes.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Well, they do have a pile of moly, and they don't really promote long drains. If it were me and I were in a pickle with no GC or M1 0w-40, well, a Red Line product would be a choice that I could, conceivably, get locally, albeit at a high price. They don't chase much of anything with respect to specifications, and do cater to a more niche market.

As an aside, NAPA Canada is finally listing PUP Euro 0w-40 and 5w-40 - whatever that might mean, precisely - in EcoBoxes.

In my case funny thing is that BMW oil LL-04 (Shell) in dealership is actually priced very good at $7.85 per liter.

 

[Garak]

Here, I'm afraid to ask the dealer, but a Pennzoil-Quaker State distributorship will have a good price, but there's only a Shell distributorship here. So, I can get Rotella and Formula Shell from them, but no Quaker State or Pennzoil. As for what Napa is actually saying is a 0w-40 and 5w-40 Euro is anyone's guess, given the several different sheets over the past while and how slow we tend to be to get products up here. I think the PUP works out to a little more per litre than the price your quoting, which is tolerable up here. Many people might dislike EcoBoxes. I'd have no problem with them.

As for Red Line, I can only think of one place that actually sells the oil, and that's a speed shop. Canadian Tire used to sell it, but they have enough overpriced oil as it is without adding Red Line to the mix. They can inflate Quaker State high enough, let alone sell a boutique.

 

[Pontual]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Where did you read PAO, again?




POE is POLYOL ESTER

Sorry, yes POE.
However, more importantly, how mfg approvals are not important?


MB SLK isnt diesel fueled, so no DPF concern. Now RL as for EGR, come on! Very Few oils are better than RL in that deposit matter on EGR. Would you prefer a cheapo group III like Green Belly oil having 229.5 on it? If you can criticize oil, you can disregard a lot of certifications.
^Oh, this has no MB229.5...^
^But it is RL!, not PYB!^

The purpose of certifications are for the non car guy refrain of using GTX in every MB motor. Or even to take it to quick lube bulk oils.

 

[harrydog]

Originally Posted By: edyvw



Like I said before, I have no doubt RL is good oil, maybe even better, who knows, but it is indicative that they are not having any approval from anyone. I do believe that their oils would do good, probably provide better cold starting capabilities, protect turbo etc, but I think due to additive pack, they actually cannot meet standards. Are those deposits or something else, who knows.
And that is the point, why paying $11.95 for 1qt of RL when you can get 5qt of M1 0W40 for $26?


Why would companies like Redline skimp on the additive pack while using more expensive base stocks? That doesn't make sense. Roy Howell of Redline is a chemist who used to work for Lubrizol so I think they probably know something about add packs. I was always under the impression that the approvals were expensive and that's why smaller companies like Redline don't have the testing done. Or maybe they purposely tweak their add packs to maximise lubricity, etc., with their main concern being engine protection and not CAFE standards or emissions. Who knows.
Anyway, I agree that oils like M1 0W-40 are very good and hard to beat especially for the price. I wouldn't spend the extra money on the likes of Redline at this point in my life but back in the day I used Redline exclusively in a modified Audi S4 for years and always got great UOA results.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Pontual
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Where did you read PAO, again?




POE is POLYOL ESTER

Sorry, yes POE.
However, more importantly, how mfg approvals are not important?


MB SLK isnt diesel fueled, so no DPF concern. Now RL as for EGR, come on! Very Few oils are better than RL in that deposit matter on EGR. Would you prefer a cheapo group III like Green Belly oil having 229.5 on it? If you can criticize oil, you can disregard a lot of certifications.
^Oh, this has no MB229.5...^
^But it is RL!, not PYB!^

The purpose of certifications are for the non car guy refrain of using GTX in every MB motor. Or even to take it to quick lube bulk oils.

Really, that is purpos of certification? So that non car guy knows what to put? Non car guy does not give a s... what says on the bottle, they take cars to 10 min oil change and text in the car while 18y old kid changes oil.
I worked on testing for approval, I would not say that is primary goal for company.
As for EGR, DPF, my point is that as owner of diesel, I personally do not know whether it would have negative effect, because company that makes my car never tested oil
As for MB 280. I mean I would never think it does not have DPF. If that engine is so simple, MB would be still using MB 229.1 not 229.3/229.5 in it.

 

[boxcartommie22]

red line oil is not a small business any more it belongs to Conoco-phillips

 

[boxcartommie22]

jbellx03, red line 5w30 is a thick oil cst=11.9 @100c

 

[Pontual]

As I said, the primary goal for certification is the consumer, and most are non car guys.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Pontual
As I said, the primary goal for certification is the consumer, and most are non car guys.

Really good "argument."

 

[Pontual]

Fine that you learnt something, then thanks xD

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Pontual
Fine that you learnt something, then thanks xD

Yep, that mfgs have approvals for non-car people. Not sure you understand what is an argument, but there is time.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Pontual
As I said, the primary goal for certification is the consumer, and most are non car guys.

While I'm not averse to the notion of Red Line in this application, I would suggest that the assertion that certification is simply for the consumer is a bit dubious. Most certifications involve a gamut of tests that the consumer couldn't care less about. If it were just for the consumer or to simplify things, the default rule for years would have been to require a 40 grade with appropriate cold cranking, and stick to charts.

Technically yes, a specification will make things easier for the consumer if they read the manual and read the bottles. But, dexos1 has a much bigger claim to being for the consumer, given that it's a readily attainable fuel economy spec and has a logo for the consumer to be able to readily identify.

 

[Pontual]

Yes, all fall to the lap of the consumer, onus or benefits, if he does his part on the equation, will collect more benefts than onus. Since interpreting EO elements is too far from the average knowledge, someone has to chew this feed up front. No mfg wants to see his creation going down for owner ignorance, so they give the path, if the consumer deviated on the matter and made things worse, the consumer is responsible and take the bite.

 

[Garak]

But, if you want to go down that path, an OEM does have to have some sort of certification for lubricants, be it their own proprietary specification, or a simple API, ILSAC, JASO, or ACEA specification. You can't exactly offer zero guidance and then expect your customers to have incident free warranty periods.

 

[kschachn]

If it were anarchy in motor oil (no specs) then what if I didn't want to use oil at all? What's going to stop me?

Originally Posted By: Garak
But, if you want to go down that path, an OEM does have to have some sort of certification for lubricants, be it their own proprietary specification, or a simple API, ILSAC, JASO, or ACEA specification. You can't exactly offer zero guidance and then expect your customers to have incident free warranty periods.