My oil guages dont know anything about wives tales and my extensive training in engines tell me that although a good filter at cleaning its not as good at flow. At least the ones i have used,
Purolator PureOne
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Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
My oil guages dont know anything about wives tales and my extensive training in engines tell me that although a good filter at cleaning its not as good at flow. At least the ones i have used,
What's your extensive training have in the way of real "Flow vs. Delt-P" data?
You can easily have a filter that is very efficient and at the same time has less restriction than a filter that is not as efficient and is more restrictive. It's really not rocket science.
My oil guages dont know anything about wives tales and my extensive training in engines tell me that although a good filter at cleaning its not as good at flow. At least the ones i have used,
What's your extensive training have in the way of real "Flow vs. Delt-P" data?
You can easily have a filter that is very efficient and at the same time has less restriction than a filter that is not as efficient and is more restrictive. It's really not rocket science.
my extensive training is that i own an engine shop and i have been building engines for over 25 years i have taught and do all the manufacturer seminars. I can hear things in an engine that others are deaf to. And as for my oil pressure gauges they are a little slower when using p1..
I know this to be true if you want to believe fine if not thats ok.
I am also the guy that testifies in court for two major car companies regarding engines.I am pretty sure that the average p1 filters better than the classic but the flow is in my opinion not the same.
I know this to be true if you want to believe fine if not thats ok.
I am also the guy that testifies in court for two major car companies regarding engines.I am pretty sure that the average p1 filters better than the classic but the flow is in my opinion not the same.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
I am pretty sure that the average p1 filters better than the classic but the flow is in my opinion not the same.
With a positive displacement oil pump the oil flow to the engine should be the same regardless of what filter is used, unless the filter is so restrictive that it causes the oil pump to hit pressure relief. No filter is that restrictive unless the media is basically blocked. The engine's oiling circuit is ~15 times more restrictive than an oil filter, and you don't see the oil pump going into pressure relief at idle speeds unless maybe when the oil is -40 deg F, or you rev the engine to red line with room temperature oil.
Most people don't grasp the whole concept of a positive displacement oil pump and how it makes the oiling system behave. A positive displacement oil pump could care less how restrictive an oil filter is, unless it puts the pump into max pressure relief mode, which is hard to do on most engines since pressure relief on oil pumps is usually around 80~100 PSI.
I am pretty sure that the average p1 filters better than the classic but the flow is in my opinion not the same.
With a positive displacement oil pump the oil flow to the engine should be the same regardless of what filter is used, unless the filter is so restrictive that it causes the oil pump to hit pressure relief. No filter is that restrictive unless the media is basically blocked. The engine's oiling circuit is ~15 times more restrictive than an oil filter, and you don't see the oil pump going into pressure relief at idle speeds unless maybe when the oil is -40 deg F, or you rev the engine to red line with room temperature oil.
Most people don't grasp the whole concept of a positive displacement oil pump and how it makes the oiling system behave. A positive displacement oil pump could care less how restrictive an oil filter is, unless it puts the pump into max pressure relief mode, which is hard to do on most engines since pressure relief on oil pumps is usually around 80~100 PSI.
everyone has ther opinions we all believe what we want in the meantime i will continue to not use the P1...
Did you notice that all the manufactures use filters that are not too restrictive? Do you think these is a reason for that?
Did you notice that all the manufactures use filters that are not too restrictive? Do you think these is a reason for that?
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
everyone has ther opinions we all believe what we want in the meantime i will continue to not use the P1...
Did you notice that all the manufactures use filters that are not too restrictive? Do you think these is a reason for that?
Sigh! The teacher who has quit learning.
everyone has ther opinions we all believe what we want in the meantime i will continue to not use the P1...
Did you notice that all the manufactures use filters that are not too restrictive? Do you think these is a reason for that?
Sigh! The teacher who has quit learning.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
everyone has ther opinions we all believe what we want in the meantime i will continue to not use the P1...
Did you notice that all the manufactures use filters that are not too restrictive? Do you think these is a reason for that?
So please define how you would categorize a "restrictive" oil filter from a "non-restrictive" oil filter.
Exactly where is the threshold curve on a "Flow vs. PSID" graph for you when you look at this graph of a filter with 5W-30 at 200 deg F flowing through it? And keep in mind that not many engines on the road can actually put out 10~12 GPMs of oil flow - even at red line RPM.
everyone has ther opinions we all believe what we want in the meantime i will continue to not use the P1...
Did you notice that all the manufactures use filters that are not too restrictive? Do you think these is a reason for that?
So please define how you would categorize a "restrictive" oil filter from a "non-restrictive" oil filter.
Exactly where is the threshold curve on a "Flow vs. PSID" graph for you when you look at this graph of a filter with 5W-30 at 200 deg F flowing through it? And keep in mind that not many engines on the road can actually put out 10~12 GPMs of oil flow - even at red line RPM.
Quote:
everyone has ther opinions we all believe what we want in the meantime i will continue to not use the P1...
I said it before, and I say it again - what's wrong with believing what I want to believe, because I believe it?
And, so as not to be the pot calling the kettle black, I will continue to use the PureOne because my experiences have all been positive. If, and when, my engine blows because of the restrictive PurOne, I will never buy another one.
everyone has ther opinions we all believe what we want in the meantime i will continue to not use the P1...
I said it before, and I say it again - what's wrong with believing what I want to believe, because I believe it?
And, so as not to be the pot calling the kettle black, I will continue to use the PureOne because my experiences have all been positive. If, and when, my engine blows because of the restrictive PurOne, I will never buy another one.
I currently have over 1200 miles on a PU and P1 OCI. In the last few days my engine has been making a ticking/rattle noise upon startup. It's not as loud as it was with the ProSelect (Woodpecker on a street light) oil filter I used one time, but it's noticeable. The weather nor air temperature has changed so I can eliminate that. I am going to install a MC FL-400S and go from there.
I just find it strange that my engine is suddenly making these noises, now, with over 1200 miles on the current OCI.......
I just find it strange that my engine is suddenly making these noises, now, with over 1200 miles on the current OCI.......
Quote:
.... I just find it strange that my engine is suddenly making these noises, now, with over 1200 miles on the current OCI.......
Iirc, haven't you had start up rattle issues with multiple different filters on said vehicle? Seems I remember reading about several and perhaps some filters that came off early.
If Motorcraft works best in reducing rattle stick with it.
To quote JOD from another recent thread, "the plural of anecdote is not data".
Saying that using a certain filter made the engine 'sound' different is entirely different than proving with empirical data the a filter is restrictive. The data posted/linked in this thread clearly show P1 is not restrictive.
Thus, the plural of anecdote is not data. But obviously urban legends and internet myths die hard.
.... I just find it strange that my engine is suddenly making these noises, now, with over 1200 miles on the current OCI.......
Iirc, haven't you had start up rattle issues with multiple different filters on said vehicle? Seems I remember reading about several and perhaps some filters that came off early.
To quote JOD from another recent thread, "the plural of anecdote is not data".
Saying that using a certain filter made the engine 'sound' different is entirely different than proving with empirical data the a filter is restrictive. The data posted/linked in this thread clearly show P1 is not restrictive.
Thus, the plural of anecdote is not data. But obviously urban legends and internet myths die hard.
I had an Extended Guard on once that worked like a champ for about 3,000 miles, then it started giving me start up death rattle about every third start.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:
.... I just find it strange that my engine is suddenly making these noises, now, with over 1200 miles on the current OCI.......
Iirc, haven't you had start up rattle issues with multiple different filters on said vehicle? Seems I remember reading about several and perhaps some filters that came off early.
If Motorcraft works best in reducing rattle stick with it.
Sayjac, you are correct. I have had problems with multiple oil filters other than MC. There was one instance I had a slight rattle with a MC FL-400S. I changed it out with another 400S and never had problems with MC since.
The P1's were given to me from BITOG member MBS500, and I still thank him very much. The prior OCI P1 worked like a charm, no problems at all. I am just going to install a 400S and go from there.
Q? I will have to add about 3/4 of a qt. of oil after installing a new filter. My engine currently has PU 5W30. I can't find PU anywhere around my area. I have about 1.5 qts. of VWB 5W20 left from what MBS500 gave me. I was going to top off my oil level with that or buy a qt. of ST 5W30 synthetic oil. Opinions?
Quote:
.... I just find it strange that my engine is suddenly making these noises, now, with over 1200 miles on the current OCI.......
Iirc, haven't you had start up rattle issues with multiple different filters on said vehicle? Seems I remember reading about several and perhaps some filters that came off early.
Sayjac, you are correct. I have had problems with multiple oil filters other than MC. There was one instance I had a slight rattle with a MC FL-400S. I changed it out with another 400S and never had problems with MC since.
The P1's were given to me from BITOG member MBS500, and I still thank him very much. The prior OCI P1 worked like a charm, no problems at all. I am just going to install a 400S and go from there.
Q? I will have to add about 3/4 of a qt. of oil after installing a new filter. My engine currently has PU 5W30. I can't find PU anywhere around my area. I have about 1.5 qts. of VWB 5W20 left from what MBS500 gave me. I was going to top off my oil level with that or buy a qt. of ST 5W30 synthetic oil. Opinions?
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
my extensive training is that i own an engine shop and i have been building engines for over 25 years i have taught and do all the manufacturer seminars. I can hear things in an engine that others are deaf to. And as for my oil pressure gauges they are a little slower when using p1..
I know this to be true if you want to believe fine if not thats ok.
I am also the guy that testifies in court for two major car companies regarding engines.I am pretty sure that the average p1 filters better than the classic but the flow is in my opinion not the same.
Doesn't get any more credible than that. I'm with this guy. I also have used P1 filters and noticed the restriction. The oil gauge on my Land Rover Discovery II must also have been broken or 'cheap.'
my extensive training is that i own an engine shop and i have been building engines for over 25 years i have taught and do all the manufacturer seminars. I can hear things in an engine that others are deaf to. And as for my oil pressure gauges they are a little slower when using p1..
I know this to be true if you want to believe fine if not thats ok.
I am also the guy that testifies in court for two major car companies regarding engines.I am pretty sure that the average p1 filters better than the classic but the flow is in my opinion not the same.
Doesn't get any more credible than that. I'm with this guy. I also have used P1 filters and noticed the restriction. The oil gauge on my Land Rover Discovery II must also have been broken or 'cheap.'
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Originally Posted By: Peted
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
my extensive training is that i own an engine shop and i have been building engines for over 25 years i have taught and do all the manufacturer seminars. I can hear things in an engine that others are deaf to. And as for my oil pressure gauges they are a little slower when using p1..
I know this to be true if you want to believe fine if not thats ok.
I am also the guy that testifies in court for two major car companies regarding engines.I am pretty sure that the average p1 filters better than the classic but the flow is in my opinion not the same.
Doesn't get any more credible than that. I'm with this guy. I also have used P1 filters and noticed the restriction. The oil gauge on my Land Rover Discovery II must also have been broken or 'cheap.'
I have been saying it a long time, I had a 1997 Buick Lesabre that my Grandpa left me when he passed away, it only had 38000 miles when he left me it...
Well I go to change the oil and I put a PUREONE oil filter on it with 10W30 Oil, and when the car would IDLE even when warmed up the oil pressure gauge would be darn near the RED..
Then I would rev up the Engine and it would move up.
Well after that I put in A/C Delco and it stayed right in the MIDDLE.. Perfect
even tried FRAM OCOD and the Oil Pressure stayed perfect in the middle.
So perhaps some cars the PureOne was just to restrictive.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
my extensive training is that i own an engine shop and i have been building engines for over 25 years i have taught and do all the manufacturer seminars. I can hear things in an engine that others are deaf to. And as for my oil pressure gauges they are a little slower when using p1..
I know this to be true if you want to believe fine if not thats ok.
I am also the guy that testifies in court for two major car companies regarding engines.I am pretty sure that the average p1 filters better than the classic but the flow is in my opinion not the same.
Doesn't get any more credible than that. I'm with this guy. I also have used P1 filters and noticed the restriction. The oil gauge on my Land Rover Discovery II must also have been broken or 'cheap.'
I have been saying it a long time, I had a 1997 Buick Lesabre that my Grandpa left me when he passed away, it only had 38000 miles when he left me it...
Well I go to change the oil and I put a PUREONE oil filter on it with 10W30 Oil, and when the car would IDLE even when warmed up the oil pressure gauge would be darn near the RED..
Then I would rev up the Engine and it would move up.
Well after that I put in A/C Delco and it stayed right in the MIDDLE.. Perfect
even tried FRAM OCOD and the Oil Pressure stayed perfect in the middle.
So perhaps some cars the PureOne was just to restrictive.
Originally Posted By: Peted
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
my extensive training is that i own an engine shop and i have been building engines for over 25 years i have taught and do all the manufacturer seminars. I can hear things in an engine that others are deaf to. And as for my oil pressure gauges they are a little slower when using p1..
I know this to be true if you want to believe fine if not thats ok.
I am also the guy that testifies in court for two major car companies regarding engines.I am pretty sure that the average p1 filters better than the classic but the flow is in my opinion not the same.
Doesn't get any more credible than that. I'm with this guy. I also have used P1 filters and noticed the restriction. The oil gauge on my Land Rover Discovery II must also have been broken or 'cheap.'
If the pressure gauge is located before the filter you would see the results of more or less flow restriction from the filter. But if the pressure sensor is after the filter, then yes, something else is throwing your perception off - like a cheap gauge or the oil temperature wasn't the same as before or the oil pump is weak and leaking volume because of a more "restrictive" oil filter.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
my extensive training is that i own an engine shop and i have been building engines for over 25 years i have taught and do all the manufacturer seminars. I can hear things in an engine that others are deaf to. And as for my oil pressure gauges they are a little slower when using p1..
I know this to be true if you want to believe fine if not thats ok.
I am also the guy that testifies in court for two major car companies regarding engines.I am pretty sure that the average p1 filters better than the classic but the flow is in my opinion not the same.
Doesn't get any more credible than that. I'm with this guy. I also have used P1 filters and noticed the restriction. The oil gauge on my Land Rover Discovery II must also have been broken or 'cheap.'
If the pressure gauge is located before the filter you would see the results of more or less flow restriction from the filter. But if the pressure sensor is after the filter, then yes, something else is throwing your perception off - like a cheap gauge or the oil temperature wasn't the same as before or the oil pump is weak and leaking volume because of a more "restrictive" oil filter.
jim use what you want and what you believe in it wont change my life at all....actually i wont argue with you i see you know more about engines than me and even seem to know more about them than the people that build them.. And the ticking that some people hear when using the p1's must be all the power trying to get out.. haha
and so should anyone.. there is free flowing then there is restrictive its something most people learn in grammer school.
Restrictive= Bad
Free flowing =Good
When it comes to oil inside an engine.
I have ended my participation in this thread because this can go on forever. I am teaching an engine course in January in somerset NJ if you are interested let me know by pm that will be discussed. Im not sure of the cost or the exact day but it is in January probably the second week
Restrictive= Bad
Free flowing =Good
When it comes to oil inside an engine.
I have ended my participation in this thread because this can go on forever. I am teaching an engine course in January in somerset NJ if you are interested let me know by pm that will be discussed. Im not sure of the cost or the exact day but it is in January probably the second week
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The PureOne is NOT restrictive - internet false folklore never dies it seems. You got data that says it is restrictive, or just some old wive's tale fabricated on the internet?
I have real measurement data - not rumors.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451
BTW - Jay from Fram (aka "Motorking" here on BITOG) showed that the full synthetic Fram Ultra basically has the same Flow vs. PSID curve as the PureOne in the thread above. And I'm willing to bet that there are many cellulose media filters out there that are more restrictive to flow than the PureOne is.
That test using the ls1 is good news! i just bought 2 Pureones on sale for use in my C5 in the future!
The PureOne is NOT restrictive - internet false folklore never dies it seems. You got data that says it is restrictive, or just some old wive's tale fabricated on the internet?
I have real measurement data - not rumors.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451
BTW - Jay from Fram (aka "Motorking" here on BITOG) showed that the full synthetic Fram Ultra basically has the same Flow vs. PSID curve as the PureOne in the thread above. And I'm willing to bet that there are many cellulose media filters out there that are more restrictive to flow than the PureOne is.
That test using the ls1 is good news! i just bought 2 Pureones on sale for use in my C5 in the future!
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