It is supply and demand. Even if speculation were as rampant as you contend, speculation alters the equation. Someone in the Middle East barks, and the price goes up. Saudi says they want to keep supply up, price goes down. Fuel prices right now are probably at historical lows, inflation corrected, particularly in the United States. If $2 a gallon is too much, come here and buy it at $1 a litre, which is a great price for up here.
Price Of Gas.. Really Dropped Today.
- Thread starter Warstud
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: grampi
I'm not suggesting we have price controls, I'm saying lets remove all of the middle men and just allow prices to be set totally based on supply and demand..
So you expect to just drive up to the refinery and fill up your car? Name a product that doesn't have multiple middlemen???
I'm not suggesting we have price controls, I'm saying lets remove all of the middle men and just allow prices to be set totally based on supply and demand..
So you expect to just drive up to the refinery and fill up your car? Name a product that doesn't have multiple middlemen???
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I will be very happy to see $2.xx/gal in So Cal.
I paid $2.99/gal last week for regular.
If you go west 25-30 miles to San Diego, the price of regular should be $3.30-3.50/gal at name brand stations.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I will be very happy to see $2.xx/gal in So Cal.
I paid $2.99/gal last week for regular.
If you go west 25-30 miles to San Diego, the price of regular should be $3.30-3.50/gal at name brand stations.
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: grampi
I'm not suggesting we have price controls, I'm saying lets remove all of the middle men and just allow prices to be set totally based on supply and demand..
So you expect to just drive up to the refinery and fill up your car? Name a product that doesn't have multiple middlemen???
Grampi wants the whole oil industry work as charity organizations. Everybody works at oil explorations/refineries should be paid with minimum salary of $10/hr without benefits, CEO should earn no more than $100k/year and with no benefits too. Transportation companies carry gas to stations should be paid at minimum wage. Gas stations should earn no more than 5 penny a gallon ...
Virtually nobody should earn no more than Federal minimum wage working for oil industry.
Originally Posted By: grampi
I'm not suggesting we have price controls, I'm saying lets remove all of the middle men and just allow prices to be set totally based on supply and demand..
So you expect to just drive up to the refinery and fill up your car? Name a product that doesn't have multiple middlemen???
Grampi wants the whole oil industry work as charity organizations. Everybody works at oil explorations/refineries should be paid with minimum salary of $10/hr without benefits, CEO should earn no more than $100k/year and with no benefits too. Transportation companies carry gas to stations should be paid at minimum wage. Gas stations should earn no more than 5 penny a gallon ...
Virtually nobody should earn no more than Federal minimum wage working for oil industry.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I will be very happy to see $2.xx/gal in So Cal.
I paid $2.99/gal last week for regular.
If you go west 25-30 miles to San Diego, the price of regular should be $3.30-3.50/gal at name brand stations.
I work on Pacific Hwy. I see the high prices in town.
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I will be very happy to see $2.xx/gal in So Cal.
I paid $2.99/gal last week for regular.
If you go west 25-30 miles to San Diego, the price of regular should be $3.30-3.50/gal at name brand stations.
I work on Pacific Hwy. I see the high prices in town.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Grampi wants the whole oil industry work as charity organizations. Everybody works at oil explorations/refineries should be paid with minimum salary of $10/hr without benefits, CEO should earn no more than $100k/year and with no benefits too. Transportation companies carry gas to stations should be paid at minimum wage. Gas stations should earn no more than 5 penny a gallon ...
Virtually nobody should earn no more than Federal minimum wage working for oil industry.
lol..its called Communism..it didn't work out well did it?
Grampi wants the whole oil industry work as charity organizations. Everybody works at oil explorations/refineries should be paid with minimum salary of $10/hr without benefits, CEO should earn no more than $100k/year and with no benefits too. Transportation companies carry gas to stations should be paid at minimum wage. Gas stations should earn no more than 5 penny a gallon ...
Virtually nobody should earn no more than Federal minimum wage working for oil industry.
lol..its called Communism..it didn't work out well did it?
He he, Al, like I said, at least one of our provinces down east regulates gasoline prices. When the oil company doesn't like the margins they're earning on the price of gas, they shut down the pumps. To make matters worse, those regions actually have more expensive gas than most other parts of the country.
At the end of my block here in town.
I have been trying to put as many miles as possible on my Jeep as of late. Use it up with the cheap gas, then when prices go back up I'll switch back.
Originally Posted By: Garak
It is supply and demand. Even if speculation were as rampant as you contend, speculation alters the equation. Someone in the Middle East barks, and the price goes up. Saudi says they want to keep supply up, price goes down. Fuel prices right now are probably at historical lows, inflation corrected, particularly in the United States. If $2 a gallon is too much, come here and buy it at $1 a litre, which is a great price for up here.
I don't know how you can say supply and demand sets prices...when one refinery in Indiana goes down and prices shoot up 60 cents a gallon overnight all throughout the Midwest, even though there are no actual shortages, that's not supply and demand...that's someone in the chain using the outage as an excuse to pad profits...
It is supply and demand. Even if speculation were as rampant as you contend, speculation alters the equation. Someone in the Middle East barks, and the price goes up. Saudi says they want to keep supply up, price goes down. Fuel prices right now are probably at historical lows, inflation corrected, particularly in the United States. If $2 a gallon is too much, come here and buy it at $1 a litre, which is a great price for up here.
I don't know how you can say supply and demand sets prices...when one refinery in Indiana goes down and prices shoot up 60 cents a gallon overnight all throughout the Midwest, even though there are no actual shortages, that's not supply and demand...that's someone in the chain using the outage as an excuse to pad profits...
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: grampi
I'm not suggesting we have price controls, I'm saying lets remove all of the middle men and just allow prices to be set totally based on supply and demand..
So you expect to just drive up to the refinery and fill up your car? Name a product that doesn't have multiple middlemen???
Grampi wants the whole oil industry work as charity organizations. Everybody works at oil explorations/refineries should be paid with minimum salary of $10/hr without benefits, CEO should earn no more than $100k/year and with no benefits too. Transportation companies carry gas to stations should be paid at minimum wage. Gas stations should earn no more than 5 penny a gallon ...
Virtually nobody should earn no more than Federal minimum wage working for oil industry.
I like how you guys exaggerate everything to make a point. All I'm saying is gas prices could be reasonable all the time like they are now...$3-$4 a gallon gas and $100+ crude is unnecessarily high...
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: grampi
I'm not suggesting we have price controls, I'm saying lets remove all of the middle men and just allow prices to be set totally based on supply and demand..
So you expect to just drive up to the refinery and fill up your car? Name a product that doesn't have multiple middlemen???
Grampi wants the whole oil industry work as charity organizations. Everybody works at oil explorations/refineries should be paid with minimum salary of $10/hr without benefits, CEO should earn no more than $100k/year and with no benefits too. Transportation companies carry gas to stations should be paid at minimum wage. Gas stations should earn no more than 5 penny a gallon ...
Virtually nobody should earn no more than Federal minimum wage working for oil industry.
I like how you guys exaggerate everything to make a point. All I'm saying is gas prices could be reasonable all the time like they are now...$3-$4 a gallon gas and $100+ crude is unnecessarily high...
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't know how you can say supply and demand sets prices...when one refinery in Indiana goes down and prices shoot up 60 cents a gallon overnight all throughout the Midwest, even though there are no actual shortages, that's not supply and demand...that's someone in the chain using the outage as an excuse to pad profits...
A reduction in supply doesn't mean there are shortages; that is actual supply and demand. And, you don't need shortages to raise prices. When gas stations run out, that's a shortage, and, if you ask me, when gas stations are running that short and that low with no likely chance of being replenished soon, they should be charging astronomical prices, such as $30+ a gallon, or whatever it takes. Prices rising when supply falls helps preclude shortages.
If I have the last gallon of gas in the city, you can be darned sure someone is going to be paying me dearly for it. Having the last gallon of gas would be a fantastic excuse (and a valid one) to gouge the heck out of someone and pad my profits.
I don't know how you can say supply and demand sets prices...when one refinery in Indiana goes down and prices shoot up 60 cents a gallon overnight all throughout the Midwest, even though there are no actual shortages, that's not supply and demand...that's someone in the chain using the outage as an excuse to pad profits...
A reduction in supply doesn't mean there are shortages; that is actual supply and demand. And, you don't need shortages to raise prices. When gas stations run out, that's a shortage, and, if you ask me, when gas stations are running that short and that low with no likely chance of being replenished soon, they should be charging astronomical prices, such as $30+ a gallon, or whatever it takes. Prices rising when supply falls helps preclude shortages.
If I have the last gallon of gas in the city, you can be darned sure someone is going to be paying me dearly for it. Having the last gallon of gas would be a fantastic excuse (and a valid one) to gouge the heck out of someone and pad my profits.
Originally Posted By: grampi
All I'm saying is gas prices could be reasonable all the time like they are now...$3-$4 a gallon gas and $100+ crude is unnecessarily high...
If something is priced unreasonably, I simply don't buy it.
All I'm saying is gas prices could be reasonable all the time like they are now...$3-$4 a gallon gas and $100+ crude is unnecessarily high...
If something is priced unreasonably, I simply don't buy it.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: grampi
All I'm saying is gas prices could be reasonable all the time like they are now...$3-$4 a gallon gas and $100+ crude is unnecessarily high...
If something is priced unreasonably, I simply don't buy it.
It would be interesting to have electricity prices changing daily though? A transformer shortage in Utah, and your price today goes up $0.05/KW/h...
Are fossil fuels any less important to our economy than electricity? I would think the base consumption of fossil fuels is more inflexible to price changes than electricity is, as its costlier for the consumer to reduce consumption.
Since N.A. is now an exporter of fossils fuels, we probably could come up with some sort of price stabilization scheme, perhaps just following what the electricity industry does?
Originally Posted By: grampi
All I'm saying is gas prices could be reasonable all the time like they are now...$3-$4 a gallon gas and $100+ crude is unnecessarily high...
If something is priced unreasonably, I simply don't buy it.
It would be interesting to have electricity prices changing daily though? A transformer shortage in Utah, and your price today goes up $0.05/KW/h...
Are fossil fuels any less important to our economy than electricity? I would think the base consumption of fossil fuels is more inflexible to price changes than electricity is, as its costlier for the consumer to reduce consumption.
Since N.A. is now an exporter of fossils fuels, we probably could come up with some sort of price stabilization scheme, perhaps just following what the electricity industry does?
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
It would be interesting to have electricity prices changing daily though? A transformer shortage in Utah, and your price today goes up $0.05/KW/h...
Are fossil fuels any less important to our economy than electricity? I would think the base consumption of fossil fuels is more inflexible to price changes than electricity is, as its costlier for the consumer to reduce consumption.
Since N.A. is now an exporter of fossils fuels, we probably could come up with some sort of price stabilization scheme, perhaps just following what the electricity industry does?
Your rate may not go up as most are regulated by a state's PUC. But the cost to your local electricity supplier may go up if they have to buy electricity on the spot market because they lose generation capacity.
It would be interesting to have electricity prices changing daily though? A transformer shortage in Utah, and your price today goes up $0.05/KW/h...
Are fossil fuels any less important to our economy than electricity? I would think the base consumption of fossil fuels is more inflexible to price changes than electricity is, as its costlier for the consumer to reduce consumption.
Since N.A. is now an exporter of fossils fuels, we probably could come up with some sort of price stabilization scheme, perhaps just following what the electricity industry does?
Your rate may not go up as most are regulated by a state's PUC. But the cost to your local electricity supplier may go up if they have to buy electricity on the spot market because they lose generation capacity.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
It would be interesting to have electricity prices changing daily though? A transformer shortage in Utah, and your price today goes up $0.05/KW/h...
Mine does, although I only see it once a month since that is my frequency of billing. But that little surcharge (or credit) is what compensates for the Citizen's Utility Board set rates.
It would be interesting to have electricity prices changing daily though? A transformer shortage in Utah, and your price today goes up $0.05/KW/h...
Mine does, although I only see it once a month since that is my frequency of billing. But that little surcharge (or credit) is what compensates for the Citizen's Utility Board set rates.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Since N.A. is now an exporter of fossils fuels, we probably could come up with some sort of price stabilization scheme, perhaps just following what the electricity industry does?
Electricity supply does fluctuate and so does the price. Electricity is actually bought and sold on the spot market just as gasoline. The difference is that supply and demand are well known. Customers bills are contractually specified...sometimes to the point of time of day so the customer is penalized. Also companies can reduce voltage or actually "shed load". Things are computor controlled to stabilize the various "grids" in the U.S.
For all these reasons and more it would be virtually impossible to have a complimentary system vis-a-vis gasoline distribution system.
The average person can purchase an ETF such as UGA (United States Gasoline). Grampi should consider this as he seems to be fixated on price rises.
Originally Posted By: Garak
If something is priced unreasonably, I simply don't buy it. [/quote]
This. What a remarkable concept.
Since N.A. is now an exporter of fossils fuels, we probably could come up with some sort of price stabilization scheme, perhaps just following what the electricity industry does?
Electricity supply does fluctuate and so does the price. Electricity is actually bought and sold on the spot market just as gasoline. The difference is that supply and demand are well known. Customers bills are contractually specified...sometimes to the point of time of day so the customer is penalized. Also companies can reduce voltage or actually "shed load". Things are computor controlled to stabilize the various "grids" in the U.S.
For all these reasons and more it would be virtually impossible to have a complimentary system vis-a-vis gasoline distribution system.
The average person can purchase an ETF such as UGA (United States Gasoline). Grampi should consider this as he seems to be fixated on price rises.
Originally Posted By: Garak
If something is priced unreasonably, I simply don't buy it. [/quote]
This. What a remarkable concept.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't know how you can say supply and demand sets prices...when one refinery in Indiana goes down and prices shoot up 60 cents a gallon overnight all throughout the Midwest, even though there are no actual shortages, that's not supply and demand...that's someone in the chain using the outage as an excuse to pad profits...
A reduction in supply doesn't mean there are shortages; that is actual supply and demand. And, you don't need shortages to raise prices. When gas stations run out, that's a shortage, and, if you ask me, when gas stations are running that short and that low with no likely chance of being replenished soon, they should be charging astronomical prices, such as $30+ a gallon, or whatever it takes. Prices rising when supply falls helps preclude shortages.
If I have the last gallon of gas in the city, you can be darned sure someone is going to be paying me dearly for it. Having the last gallon of gas would be a fantastic excuse (and a valid one) to gouge the heck out of someone and pad my profits.
Please site an example of stations running out, or even running low. It doesn't happen. When a refinery goes down for whatever reason, production is bumped up at other nearby refiners to make up for the lost product from the refinery that's shut down. Like I said, there are no actual shortages when a refinery goes down, it's just an excuse to pad profits...
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't know how you can say supply and demand sets prices...when one refinery in Indiana goes down and prices shoot up 60 cents a gallon overnight all throughout the Midwest, even though there are no actual shortages, that's not supply and demand...that's someone in the chain using the outage as an excuse to pad profits...
A reduction in supply doesn't mean there are shortages; that is actual supply and demand. And, you don't need shortages to raise prices. When gas stations run out, that's a shortage, and, if you ask me, when gas stations are running that short and that low with no likely chance of being replenished soon, they should be charging astronomical prices, such as $30+ a gallon, or whatever it takes. Prices rising when supply falls helps preclude shortages.
If I have the last gallon of gas in the city, you can be darned sure someone is going to be paying me dearly for it. Having the last gallon of gas would be a fantastic excuse (and a valid one) to gouge the heck out of someone and pad my profits.
Please site an example of stations running out, or even running low. It doesn't happen. When a refinery goes down for whatever reason, production is bumped up at other nearby refiners to make up for the lost product from the refinery that's shut down. Like I said, there are no actual shortages when a refinery goes down, it's just an excuse to pad profits...
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: grampi
All I'm saying is gas prices could be reasonable all the time like they are now...$3-$4 a gallon gas and $100+ crude is unnecessarily high...
If something is priced unreasonably, I simply don't buy it.
Unfortunately, that isn't possible in a society that is built around commerce...
Originally Posted By: grampi
All I'm saying is gas prices could be reasonable all the time like they are now...$3-$4 a gallon gas and $100+ crude is unnecessarily high...
If something is priced unreasonably, I simply don't buy it.
Unfortunately, that isn't possible in a society that is built around commerce...
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
It would be interesting to have electricity prices changing daily though? A transformer shortage in Utah, and your price today goes up $0.05/KW/h...
That's an interesting idea. Up here, our power is from a Crown corporation, and their rate hikes and drops are limited by the government. Plus, they own all the generating facilities and all the infrastructure. Natural gas is much the same in this province. There are some options to "sign up" with another supplier, but as it stands, that seems to be a lot of hand-waving to me. The provincial Crown that handles natural gas obviously buys contracts for the gas, so usually the rate stays stable throughout the year.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Please site an example of stations running out, or even running low. It doesn't happen. When a refinery goes down for whatever reason, production is bumped up at other nearby refiners to make up for the lost product from the refinery that's shut down. Like I said, there are no actual shortages when a refinery goes down, it's just an excuse to pad profits...
It does happen. There were problems in the 1970s. Sure, time has exaggerated the matter, but there were real shortages. Down in eastern Canada, there were some logistical problems last week or the week before, and a lot of stations ran out. Last winter, Petro-Canada wasn't able to supply their stations, and they ran out. In all those cases, they should have charged through the nose for their last litres.
However, the rarity of actual shortages is my whole point. It's exceedingly rare. That's what pricing does. It ensures things are allocated in a semi-fair scheme. If gas was a penny a gallon tomorrow or free, someone would rent a tanker truck and fill it, speculating on it going up or wanting to use it himself. The station would run dry in no time.
Conversely, and in response to your, "Unfortunately, that isn't possible in a society that is built around commerce..." comment, if the price goes up to $30 a gallon tomorrow, I would wager that you would be doing a lot of walking or biking or purchasing a plug in electric in very short order. You'd find out how possible it really is. Note that I didn't say easy or pleasant or fun. I said possible. All societies have been built around commerce. Gasoline is a relatively recent invention.
We don't have the right to arbitrarily cheap gasoline. The oil companies aren't our nannies. We do, however, have the right to shop around and to refuse to buy something that's too expensive.
My G37 "needs" 5w-30 motor oil in SM/GF-4 or newer. I contend that Canadian retailers are too expensive for motor oil, particularly ILSAC rated PCMO, and I don't like chasing their little sales. So, I found a dramatically cheaper alternative.
Shell and Imperial Oil and their ilk have done a lot more favors for me than Walmart or Canadian Tire ever have and, ironically, never handed me as much inflation as those two ever did.
It would be interesting to have electricity prices changing daily though? A transformer shortage in Utah, and your price today goes up $0.05/KW/h...
That's an interesting idea. Up here, our power is from a Crown corporation, and their rate hikes and drops are limited by the government. Plus, they own all the generating facilities and all the infrastructure. Natural gas is much the same in this province. There are some options to "sign up" with another supplier, but as it stands, that seems to be a lot of hand-waving to me. The provincial Crown that handles natural gas obviously buys contracts for the gas, so usually the rate stays stable throughout the year.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Please site an example of stations running out, or even running low. It doesn't happen. When a refinery goes down for whatever reason, production is bumped up at other nearby refiners to make up for the lost product from the refinery that's shut down. Like I said, there are no actual shortages when a refinery goes down, it's just an excuse to pad profits...
It does happen. There were problems in the 1970s. Sure, time has exaggerated the matter, but there were real shortages. Down in eastern Canada, there were some logistical problems last week or the week before, and a lot of stations ran out. Last winter, Petro-Canada wasn't able to supply their stations, and they ran out. In all those cases, they should have charged through the nose for their last litres.
However, the rarity of actual shortages is my whole point. It's exceedingly rare. That's what pricing does. It ensures things are allocated in a semi-fair scheme. If gas was a penny a gallon tomorrow or free, someone would rent a tanker truck and fill it, speculating on it going up or wanting to use it himself. The station would run dry in no time.
Conversely, and in response to your, "Unfortunately, that isn't possible in a society that is built around commerce..." comment, if the price goes up to $30 a gallon tomorrow, I would wager that you would be doing a lot of walking or biking or purchasing a plug in electric in very short order. You'd find out how possible it really is. Note that I didn't say easy or pleasant or fun. I said possible. All societies have been built around commerce. Gasoline is a relatively recent invention.
We don't have the right to arbitrarily cheap gasoline. The oil companies aren't our nannies. We do, however, have the right to shop around and to refuse to buy something that's too expensive.
My G37 "needs" 5w-30 motor oil in SM/GF-4 or newer. I contend that Canadian retailers are too expensive for motor oil, particularly ILSAC rated PCMO, and I don't like chasing their little sales. So, I found a dramatically cheaper alternative.
Shell and Imperial Oil and their ilk have done a lot more favors for me than Walmart or Canadian Tire ever have and, ironically, never handed me as much inflation as those two ever did.
- Status
Similar threads
