power steering fluid vs ATF?

[MolaKule]

Ken,

"I've used fireproof hydraulic fluid. Costs a bunch, but works well and is specified for certain non-automotive applications. It needs special seals."

Are you referring to the phosphate esters? They are great hydraulic fluids, but are also toxic.

 

[SteveD2]

It's been so long that I don't remember. Yes, I do remember that it was some sort of synthetic formulation.

Ken

 

[widman]

I use Dexron III in almost everything. Some power steering fluids have more antifoam. Any good Dexron III could be called a multigrade. VI of 190 is better than almost any motor oil. As I look at the Chevron ATF it is equal to a ISO 32 (SAE 10w) at 40 C, 7.5 at 100 C, with only a brookfield visc. 15,000 cP at -40.
In well worn power steering (no straight roads here) I use Tractor Hydraulic Fluid. slightly higher visc. Good VI. Two years ago they told me I needed to spend $400 on a new pump. I pulled the hose, added new fluid with the engine running until the red stuff came out and the amber fluid was in.
Unless you have a system with internal clutches, Type F will do nothing for you.
Mercon V has only half of the foam allowed on earlier versions, better pumpability at low temps, and much better seal swell characteristics.

 

[Judd]

I work at factory that builds PS pumps for several different manufacturers.
We also build Steering Gears for several different manufacturers also
When I first started working there {10 years ago}, we used DexII. We canged to ****** PSF about 3 or 4 years ago. It's the same stuff basically, use ether one. Call Nissan,BMW,GM or who ever and they will say- Use yada yada only! Guess what, I called them back when we used DexII and they said use only their "brand".
Basically, find what ever doesn't foam excessively when you go to a trip to the AutoX and be happy. BTW, the change to ****** PSF was not based on performance! There might be a few differences between ATF and psf that could matter, but I don't think would be a big difference. Edited to protect the innocent-me

!

[ August 30, 2002, 06:22 AM: Message edited by: Judd ]

 

[widman]

icruse..... I looked up some Flash Points: The Dexron III I looked up had higher flash points than the Power Steering fluids.

 

[Steve_RI]

Well, I pumped it out and put in ATF to be on the safe side. I'll rest easier too. I used the QS synthetic blend, $2.50 a quart at Wally world. It was a little messy but a pretty easy job.

 

[UncleS2]

I claim no special knowledge here at all. But if I hadn't remembered about this thread yesterday, I might have used some old ATF to top off my PS, ck'd it for the first time in a *long* while, & it was down a hair. So, last night I dug out my '97 Neon Factory Service Manual, looked it up, & it said(of course),"...use only Mopar Power Steering Fluid or equivalent." All that in boldface type, but most say that, right? *HOWEVER*: Immediately after, in even larger, bolder black type, it says,"DO NOT USE ANY TYPE OF AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID." In all caps, just like that. I dunno if this applies to other Chrysler products or not, but if you have one, you might want to check for sure before adding anything. (I wonder if Valvoline Syn-Power PS Fluid would be OK?)

 

[Kevin in Texas]

I have a '93 Explorer and the owner's manual says use Type F ATF. Transmission calls for Mercon.

Any problems using Dex III/Mercon in PS system? or should I stay with Type F?

 

[Kevin in Texas]

Just to bring it up to the top to get my question answered

 

[Spector]

If it requires Type F use Type F. I have a Merc Mystique with same issue, Type F in PS but Mercon in trans. You can find the Type F in any parts store

 

[pmt]

I have a 96 T-Bird. In the owner's manual on one page it says to use Type F in the power steering. But on another maintenance page in the same owner's manual it says to use Mercon in the power steering! Anyone know which is correct, or does it matter?

 

[widman]

I'm guessing there are some clutches in there, as Ford recommends different products for different models. For 1996 my book says to use Type F (hard torque) on Aspire, Escort, Tracer, Windstar, Villager, Contour, Mystique. All others should use Mercon (smoother grip).

 

[sprintman]

Replaced factory Dexron III with Redline D4ATF as per Redline recomendation yesterday and now some shuddering. Will replace that with Redline Power steering fluid and see what happens. Expensive litle exercise!

 

[MolaKule]

Sprintman,

What do you mean by shuddering. Sometimes the synths will allow the overpressure valve to oscillate when turned hard right or left against the stops.

 

[sprintman]

Yes thats probably it. I'm waiting on specs for Redlines PSF and maybe try. Is the oscillating valve bad for longevity? Tks...s

 

[dragboat]

Kevin,it has been some time ago but a friend that works at a Mercury Dealership told me Ford said to stop using the Type F and begin using the Dexron III in the Power Steering of the cars that required it per the ownwers manual,now though you will see most new Fords calling for Mercon in the P/S.
The 1985 Grand Marquis I have is tough on P/S Fluid for some reason,in the past have seen Fords with heat dissapating fins inline. I have been using Dexron III in it for years now and for the last year added the Synergyn additive. Does not smell or look as burnt as before but will soon put the Mercon in it because I change it yearly and am out of Synergyn

 

[MolaKule]

Nah, in fact it limits the pressure for the pump, to make it last longer.

I had rather the pump go into by-pass than blow a seal or ahose; makes such a mess.

 

[pgtr]

This thread is very timely for me. For the longest time I've always felt that the whole ATF / PSF thing is somewhat nebulous and lacking in standards and general knowledge. Judging from this thread - seems I'm not alone!

For both auto trannies and PS there are these ah, 'generic' fluids out there that simply state "Power Steering Fluid" or "Automatic Transmission Fluid" sold in tiny plastic bottles and sometimes at a rather high price considering it 'may' just be dressed up ATF.

For auto trannies at least there are also:
1) Type F
2) Dexron family
3) Mercon family
4) Manufacturere propriety fluids (Honda, maybe Chrysler... others?)

I've never found any kind of decent FAQ or article on this whole subject area compared to engine and gear lubricants. I also think there is a distinct need for some sort of standards to be set like the API and SAE have done other lubricants and fluids. I think the auto tranny fluids are somewhat well spec'd out but the PS side of the coin is still a mess IMHO. What happened? Why hasn't there been some good clear standards or atleast well done FAQs or Articles written on this area of fluids? Any budding authors out there!?...

I think some modern automatic transmissions have developed at such a pace that require various pressures, materials and temperatures. To keep up w/ it some manufactures have just developed their own fluids and you should pretty much stick with the manufacturers recommendation (or their stuff as the case my be).

I have cars made from the 70s to the 90s and made in Japan, Germany and US and my owners manuals pretty much are all over the place in general as to what to use particularly in PS. Some simply say "Power Steering Fluid" some say "ATF" some say specific types of ATF like Dexron or Type-F or whatever. I am NOT however aware of any manufacturers requiring proprietary PSF.

What got me interested in this whole subject (and yes there is finally a question in this rambling post!) is that for many years, once in a blue moon I might add a few drops of the generic Power Steering Fluid to my '84 Mazda's steering. Finally I looked at the fine print of my owners manual when replacing hoses and new pump. Oops! It says to use "Type-F".

Well that's what I use in it now. But Type-F is an awfully dated ATF standard. Would I better off if I used something more modern in my '84 Mazda's power steering? I have no idea on this one though I suspect I can probably use anything as long as I use it consistently. THoughts?

 

[widman]

Those points are valid. There are a lot of recommendations. What we need is someone who has taken apart and understands physically what each type of pump requires.
Some are simple hydraulics, some have clutches, so you need something compatible with the clutches and the smoothness or hardness required. Some are simple hydraulic pumps, some also circulate and lubricate the steering gears, requiring more EP characteristics. Some have no electronics, others have electronic pressure sensors that will corrode with older fluids (Type A, Dexron II and before). There are probably a few more variables, but this is the starting point.
Since I drive in dusty conditions, my biggest problem is that none have filters on their breather holes.

 

[Toy4x4]

Looking through owners manual, just found out I can use Dexron-II ATF in p-s-p. To what level has Dexron reached (III, IV?) and is it backwards compatible?

Sprintman,
Any more shuddering problems w/ the Redline ATF or have you switched to PSF? If you have switched, how's it working?

I've had to rebuild my p-s-p twice since '93 because of heat related seal failure.

Any other suggestions on a synthetic PSF would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Hugh