Porsche Approved Oil: replacement of A40 with C40 oil

[kschachn]

Simply because you can buy oils with significantly superior specifications for the same price or even less.
I am also troubled that Mobil doesn't disclose certain information, such as sulphated ash and total base number (TBN) in their datasheet. Both play a vital role in engines equipped with gasoline particulate filters (GPF).

How would you know an oil with the same approval has “significantly superior specifications”?

And those requirements that you note are included in the approval.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

Simply because you can buy oils with significantly superior specifications for the same price or even less.
I am also troubled that Mobil doesn't disclose certain information, such as sulphated ash and total base number (TBN) in their datasheet. Both play a vital role in engines equipped with gasoline particulate filters (GPF).

Ya it must be junk then

 

[9XI]

How would you know an oil with the same approval has “significantly superior specifications”?

And those requirements that you note are included in the approval.

To put it simply, you can compare the specifications of different oils and then assess the degradation of used oil to determine which oil performs better in terms of degradation. Certain oils are formulated without the use of viscosity improvers, which means they are more resistant to temperature-related stress. Lastly, it is worth mentioning that there have been instances of counterfeit Mobil oils being sold online. To ensure the authenticity of the product, one may opt to purchase Mobil oils directly from authorized dealers, albeit at a higher cost. Alternatively, another option is to obtain other brand from the factory shop where there are no intermediaries such as dealers involved.

While it's logical all approved oils must meet certain requirements, it is perplexing why certain information is concealed.

 

[9XI]

Ya it must be junk then

Not really a productive post.
Where did I say it's junk?
Please re-read the last 10 posts.

 

[kschachn]

To put it simply, you can compare the specifications of different oils and then assess the degradation of used oil to determine which oil performs better in terms of degradation. Certain oils are formulated without the use of viscosity improvers, which means they are more resistant to temperature-related stress. Lastly, it is worth mentioning that there have been instances of counterfeit Mobil oils being sold online. To ensure the authenticity of the product, one may opt to purchase Mobil oils directly from authorized dealers, albeit at a higher cost. Alternatively, another option is to obtain other brand from the factory shop where there are no intermediaries such as dealers involved.

While it's logical all approved oils must meet certain requirements, it is perplexing why certain information is concealed.

Nothing is concealed, that’s only conspiracy talk. Unless of course there is obfuscation in whether an oil has an approval or not.

How do you measure “degradation” of used oil in a UOA?

 

[CanAmAndMore]

Not really a productive post.
Where did I say it's junk?
Please re-read the last 10 posts.

You're fun at parties I bet...

 

[edyvw]

To put it simply, you can compare the specifications of different oils and then assess the degradation of used oil to determine which oil performs better in terms of degradation. Certain oils are formulated without the use of viscosity improvers, which means they are more resistant to temperature-related stress. Lastly, it is worth mentioning that there have been instances of counterfeit Mobil oils being sold online. To ensure the authenticity of the product, one may opt to purchase Mobil oils directly from authorized dealers, albeit at a higher cost. Alternatively, another option is to obtain other brand from the factory shop where there are no intermediaries such as dealers involved.

While it's logical all approved oils must meet certain requirements, it is perplexing why certain information is concealed.

Based on a few posts, there is a lot of catch-up you need to do.
Also, of all companies, Mobil1 is one of the most transparent, if not the most transparent.

 

[edyvw]

BMW (globally), similar to Porsche in the US, provides a comprehensive list containing all approved oil brands. Therefore, regardless of the dealer's recommendations, customers can still find oils from various brands that are approved by the manufacturer (BMW).

It is important to distinguish between the dealer's suggestions and the official Approved list, which is published by the factory through the dealer network. Moreover, it is evident that the OEM approvals did not receive an extension, resulting in certain brands no longer being officially approved but instead recommended. However, it is worth noting that these products still meet the OEM specifications.

Indeed, you are correct, Motul is often considered a popular alternative choice. While the US Approval list states that Motul has a valid approval, the information on the container and datasheet indicates that it is only a recommendation. This inconsistency raises questions about the actual status of Motul's approval. Although Motul meets the C40 specifications, it is puzzling why the EU does not mention its approval and why this information is not seen on the container.

I don't see any issues with dealers recommending a particular brand, but I find it peculiar that approvals which were valid for several months or even years ago are now being revoked.

You have a lot of assumptions here, and we discussed it a lot, so I will be brief:
Manufacturers do change their approvals. They update requirements, other manufacturers update their approvals, then oil blenders update oil formulation, and then they have to get reapproval from other manufacturers.
Porsche updated both A40 and C40 recently. Many oil blanders need time to catch up. Motul is good example. They updated X-Clean GEN2 5W40 to API SP. They lowered KV100 from 13.5 to 13.3, but kept very string HTHS of 3.9cP. In that, compared to API SN version, they do not have currently Porsche C40 approval on PDS. But, that is probably result of reapproval process.
BMW updated LL01 and LL04 in 2018 which eliminated all 0WXX oils. But they updated again 2022 and 0WXX oils are again allowed.

 

[9XI]

Nothing is concealed, that’s only conspiracy talk. Unless of course there is obfuscation in whether an oil has an approval or not.

How do you measure “degradation” of used oil in a UOA?

Indeed, that is the dilemma. While the US document indicates that several brands have legitimate approval, the European document does not acknowledge the same.

Measuring degradation is pretty straightforward. You begin by analyzing two fresh oil samples and then after several thousand kilometeres you conduct another analysis. Many results can be found online. I paid attention to Viscosity index.

 

[9XI]

Also, of all companies, Mobil1 is one of the most transparent, if not the most transparent.

Can you provide any supporting evidence for your statement? What factors lead you to perceive Mobil as more trustworthy compared to other brands?

 

[kschachn]

Indeed, that is the dilemma. While the US document indicates that several brands have legitimate approval, the European document does not acknowledge the same.

Measuring degradation is pretty straightforward. You begin by analyzing two fresh oil samples and then after several thousand kilometeres you conduct another analysis. Many results can be found online. I paid attention to Viscosity index.

I guess what I was asking is what specifically do you look at on an analysis?

 

[9XI]

You have a lot of assumptions here, and we discussed it a lot, so I will be brief:
Manufacturers do change their approvals. They update requirements, other manufacturers update their approvals, then oil blenders update oil formulation, and then they have to get reapproval from other manufacturers.
Porsche updated both A40 and C40 recently. Many oil blanders need time to catch up. Motul is good example. They updated X-Clean GEN2 5W40 to API SP. They lowered KV100 from 13.5 to 13.3, but kept very string HTHS of 3.9cP. In that, compared to API SN version, they do not have currently Porsche C40 approval on PDS. But, that is probably result of reapproval process.
BMW updated LL01 and LL04 in 2018 which eliminated all 0WXX oils. But they updated again 2022 and 0WXX oils are again allowed.

I understand what you are saying. It makes perfect sense.
But in this case we have two documents (both from the same factory and both with worldwide parameters). One document suggests that 16 brands possess valid approvals, while the other asserts that only one brand has obtained such approval.

Sure, we can assume all 16 brands are in the reapproval process yet the US document is providing specific validity dates. I guess time will tell, but to be honest, I doubt that. I attached the EU approval dated 04.10.2021 in one of my previous posts. Today, almost two years later, no brands were added to this list.

Regarding your mention of Motul X-Clean GEN2 5W-40, would you mind comparing it to Mobil ESP X3 and also include Ravenol RUP? Can you provide any objective reasons why Mobil should be the preferred choice in this comparison?

 

[svenson]

Can you provide any supporting evidence for your statement? What factors lead you to perceive Mobil as more trustworthy compared to other brands?

their pds ,they are always loud and clear! but he said transparent not trustworthy.they are not the same. there are many trustworthy but not many transparent.

 

[kschachn]

I understand what you are saying. It makes perfect sense.
But in this case we have two documents (both from the same factory and both with worldwide parameters). One document suggests that 16 brands possess valid approvals, while the other asserts that only one brand has obtained such approval.

Sure, we can assume all 16 brands are in the reapproval process yet the US document is providing specific validity dates. I guess time will tell, but to be honest, I doubt that. I attached the EU approval dated 04.10.2021 in one of my previous posts. Today, almost two years later, no brands were added to this list.

Regarding your mention of Motul X-Clean GEN2 5W-40, would you mind comparing it to Mobil ESP X3 and also include Ravenol RUP? Can you provide any objective reasons why Mobil should be the preferred choice in this comparison?

Sucks to be in Europe I guess.

 

[9XI]

I guess what I was asking is what specifically do you look at on an analysis?

In my opinion, a used oil sample that shares comparable specifications to a new oil sample is worth considering as a primary choice.

 

[kschachn]

In my opinion, a used oil sample that shares comparable specifications to a new oil sample is worth considering as a primary choice.

But what specifications? UOA don't give that sort of information.

 

[9XI]

their pds ,they are always loud and clear! but he said transparent not trustworthy.they are not the same. there are many trustworthy but not many transparent.

To me both factors are important. It's hard to be trustworthy if you're not transparent.
I can rephrase the question: What are the contributing factors that lead individuals to perceive Mobil as being more transparent when compared to other brands?

 

[9XI]

But what specifications? UOA don't give that sort of information.

Oil-club.de frequently publishes numerous oil analysis results, mostly focusing on the correlation between viscosity index and the mileage.

 

[svenson]

To me both factors are important. It's hard to be trustworthy if you're not transparent.
I can rephrase the question: What are the contributing factors that lead individuals to perceive Mobil as being more transparent when compared to other brands?

transparent? again , its pds.
being transparent means you can read its pds without confusing what is approved ,what is recommended , full api requirements,specs .motul does that too,since you mentioned it, unlike others that are presenting confusing pds like amsoil or castrol and LM which doesn't give the exact number of hths.
Thats why this company and motul are trustworthy.

 

[svenson]

Oil-club.de frequently publishes numerous oil analysis results, mostly focusing on the correlation between viscosity index and the mileage.

and then they always suggest you to buy addinol ,rowe and shell .