Only Synthetic?

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Yes, but as Triton mentioned, 'with respectable oci'. 16k -18k miles on dino is definitely not that. I would venture to say this mileage is a stretch for many synthetics as well.

Many drivers don't know the different between syn and dino, they just follow the OLM.

Mercedes FSS was calibrated for synthetic (MB 229.3 and 229.5) and 16k -18k miles is the norm for mostly highway driving.

 

[chrisri]

Dino is long forgotten everywhere except NA.Use group III oil and change every 7500 miles.What is the point of mineral oil these days?

 

[wemay]

Good point HTSS_TR, they just follow viscosity and OLM.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
Dino is long forgotten everywhere except NA.Use group III oil and change every 7500 miles.What is the point of mineral oil these days?


How is this a compelling argument? If it works, it works. What difference does it make what's used elsewhere?

 

[chrisri]

It works for how long, 3000-4000 miles?What is the point to change oil more then is needed?Price difference is insignificant between dino and HC oils.Come on,your companies invented PAO in seventies and now is 2014.HC oils are cheap.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
Dino is long forgotten everywhere except NA.Use group III oil and change every 7500 miles.What is the point of mineral oil these days?


Well, there's also South America, Africa, Australia, New Zealand and most of Asia.
Outside of the EU and Japan, synthetics remain the choice of only a small minority of users. We have a few EU members here and they aren't unanimous in choosing synthetics either.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
It works for how long, 3000-4000 miles?What is the point to change oil more then is needed?Price difference is insignificant between dino and HC oils.Come on,your companies invented PAO in seventies and now is 2014.HC oils are cheap.


Many here go 8k+ miles on conventional. Check the UOA's.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Dino is long forgotten everywhere except NA.Use group III oil and change every 7500 miles.What is the point of mineral oil these days?


Well, there's also South America, Africa, Australia, New Zealand and most of Asia.
Outside of the EU and Japan, synthetics remain the choice of only a small minority of users. We have a few EU members here and they aren't unanimous in choosing synthetics either.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
Dino is long forgotten everywhere except NA.Use group III oil and change every 7500 miles.What is the point of mineral oil these days?

Most vehicles sold in North America (and Japan, for that matter) don't call for oils meeting terribly rigorous standards, such as what one sees in a lot of European cars. Aside from a few oddballs that Chrysler sells or has sold through its fascination with European marriages, there really isn't anything more demanding in North American than dexos1. SN/GF-5 pretty much covers everything else in gasoline engines.

 

[chrisri]

All Euro cars after 95 are spec'd for HC oils,but nevermind Europe for a sec.Why wouldn't you use an oil that can make double OCI even if your car doesen't need synthetic oil?
Ah now i see 8k miles with dino?Great if it works.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
All Euro cars after 95 are spec'd for HC oils,but nevermind Europe for a sec.Why wouldn't you use an oil that can make double OCI even if your car doesen't need synthetic oil?
Ah now i see 8k miles with dino?Great if it works.


Most European cars operated in the EU also allow for what we here would consider excessively long drain intervals.
M1 0W-40 is literally cheaper here than the least expensive oil you can find anywhere in the EU.
You want cheap? Synthetics here are regularly under two bucks a quart after some fuel rewards or mail in rebate deal. I have a few jugs of synthetic in my garage that actually made me money after MIR along with a number that were FAR. Name brand dino is regularly on sale somewhere for around two bucks a quart with no need to use any associated offers.
There is therefore no real concern here with running very long OCIs other than convenience.
I might add that there is a mod on this board who about doubled 8K on one of the least expensive dinos available and had a good looking UOA to show for it.

 

[chrisri]

All cars are spec'd for synthetics here,even Jeep.This is because of severe use cars see on a motorway.And if you can make 8k on dino,you could double that with that 2 bucks M1.And that's convenient.

 

[fdcg27]

Motorway use is not typically really severe.
Stop and go traffic on a hot summer day with the A/C cranked is severe.
The last cheap M1 I bought was AFE at $12.00/jug after MIR a few years back. At around the same time, M1 15W-50 was on clearance everywhere and got down to give-away prices and this was also the case for the old M1R.
I just put the last of my stash of M1 15W-50 oil in one of my lawnmowers.
I'm sure that this twenty year old Tecumseh will do well with it.

 

[chrisri]

Yesterday i drove from Munich to Rijeka,around 500 km of motorway in a rental Opel Corsa 1.2 averaging 150 kmph,it doesn't sound much but it's only 1.2.That is severe use for that engine.

 

[fdcg27]

It sounds rough, but how high was the bulk oil temperature?
That's what matters.
500 km?
Not so much.
Yoy can easily do that speed for a greater distance in West Texas or through Montana, although you won't find too many cars here of only 1.2 liters.
In the less inhabited parts of our west, speed limits have long been no more than advisory, or at least that's been my experience on trips through those regions.

 

[d00df00d]

As far as I know, when an application calls for a synthetic, it's because there are parts of the engine that would cook off or shear down all but the heaviest conventional oils, and heavy conventional oils don't work too well on a cold start. A synthetic can work better at high temps while retaining cold performance.

I can imagine a mildly driven BMW 323i running okay on a good conventional oil even though it specs synthetic only. I wouldn't want to try that same experiment with an M3 that specs Castrol TWS 10w-60.

 

[benjy]

synthetic recommendations are a bit CLOUDY with group III oils legally "synthetic" in USA. group III Dino "synthetics" are cleaner due to their processing removing most but not all impurities + prolly a better add pack. REAL synthetics group IV + V are clean period!! being man made they have no impurities + surely have better add packs. their uniform molecules lubricate better with less friction among other benefits. VW start specifying "synthetics" for their turbo'd engines after failures with lesser oils under WARRANTY took $$$$ out of their pockets!!! i used to dump the free oil changes on my 01 turbo'd jetta from the stealer, replacing their oil with amsoil true synthetic oil, traded at 199,xxx miles running great!!

 

[chrisri]

It sounds rough, but how high was the bulk oil temperature?
That's what matters.
500 km?
Not so much.
Yoy can easily do that speed for a greater distance in West Texas or through Montana, although you won't find too many cars here of only 1.2 liters.
In the less inhabited parts of our west, speed limits have long been no more than advisory, or at least that's been my experience on trips through those regions. [/quote


You missed my point.I was among the slowest,people in a real cars are just passing by with their BM and other more powerfull cars.Have you ever been in Italy ur Germany?People tend to drive very fast there,even small underpowered cars.It's not like US folk don't drive fast but is probably less common due to restricted law.People drive slow here where i am,but no so i Italy and Germany,and this high speed that what might occur and long OCI are probably main reason for synthetic recommendation.

 

[KitaCam]

Originally Posted By: chrisri

It sounds rough, but how high was the bulk oil temperature?
That's what matters.
500 km?
Not so much.
Yoy can easily do that speed for a greater distance in West Texas or through Montana, although you won't find too many cars here of only 1.2 liters.
In the less inhabited parts of our west, speed limits have long been no more than advisory, or at least that's been my experience on trips through those regions. [/quote

You missed my point.I was among the slowest,people in a real cars are just passing by with their BM and other more powerfull cars.Have you ever been in Italy ur Germany?People tend to drive very fast there,even small underpowered cars.It's not like US folk don't drive fast but is probably less common due to restricted law.People drive slow here where i am,but no so i Italy and Germany,and this high speed that what might occur and long OCI are probably main reason for synthetic recommendation.



Also this...that in Europe many more cars are ManuTranny driven and they (the trannies) drive the engine at higher RPMs than ATs...I know the MT in the Camry, and I

too, do.

 

[fdcg27]

Okay, so what about all of those tractor trailers that run at near their power peak for hundreds of miles at a time using only Rotella T, Delvac 1300 or some other dino HDEO?
These engines do have huge sumps, but they seem to do just fine on conventional oils.