Only Synthetic?

[geeman789]

Synthetic typically lasts longer, and flows better in cold temps, and MAY? be better at very high temps...

If none of these criteria are important, conventional works just fine...

And where I live PYB is on sale for $ 16.00 for the 5 liter jug, M1 is on "sale" for $ 33.00 per 4.4 liter jug.

There is a big difference in price between conventional and synthetic in CANADA.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
Synthetic typically lasts longer, and flows better in cold temps, and


has molecules more uniform in size.

 

[OneEyeJack]

Oil is a trivial expense when compared to the overall cost of owning a car. If specified, not using the correct synthetic oil is an unnecessary risk with no upside.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: lugNutz
I am currently arguing with someone about the fact that a car which says to ONLY use synthetic motor oil, MUST ONLY use synthetic -- and no dino or blends.

I'm going to be marginally contrary, at least with respect to the word "must." I wouldn't play around much during the warranty period, of course. But, let's take a bit of an older German car, for example (not something really high performance like an AMG, M car, or Porsche, nor something requiring low SAPS oils, but still calling for something in the neighborhood of GC or M1 0w-40). Given the right climate, one might be able to use a 15w-40 HDEO (which gives sufficient HTHS if it's a warm climate) or even a 5w-30 or 10w-30 in a cooler climate and it's not driven hard.

In those cases, I suggest it would be possible, but one would have to be making a very informed decision and cut OCIs appropriately. I don't think it would be cost effective or sensible, though. So, basically, I'd say one could, but why bother?

Agreed. I used HDEO 15W40 in E430 once some years ago. I reduced OCI to slightly less than half normal OCI of 11-13k to around 5k. No problem to the engine at all.

 

[wemay]

I doubt the owner's manual REQUIRES synthetic. As some have mentioned, you should buy according to what specs need to be met.

 

[CharBaby]

Originally Posted By: lugNutz
Okay, knowing the vast amount of knowledge of members here, I need everyone's help to solve a heated debate.

I am currently arguing with someone about the fact that a car which says to ONLY use synthetic motor oil, MUST ONLY use synthetic -- and no dino or blends.

I will not state which side I am taking, just to eliminate any claims of favoritism en light of me being a BITOG member.

Please help solve this argument!


Now, after all of this I am curious to know...What side are you taking?

 

[KrisZ]

Using the logic used by people promoting the use of thinner oils than specified, I would say that you can definitely use dino in place of synthetic no matter the vehicle.

How? Just like with going to a thinner oil, if you go to a fluid that will not meet full manufacturer requirements, you have to make sure that you stay well below the maximum operating conditions and OCI requirements.
Some thin oil guys use this approach fairly successfully, some foolishly follow without doing the leg work themselves.

So, I don't see why it would not work for dino oil when synthetic oil is spec’ed, for those willing to do the leg work. I would not do it simply because a stranger on the internet says he does it.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I'm running synthetic in my car right now. The difference in the way the engine operates is amazing.


What are the noted differences in using synthetic over conventional? I just used a synthetic BLEND in my Accord for the first time. I have always used synthetic. It idles smooth, drives smooth as is it did with full synthetic. I dont really notice any difference in engine noise. So all in all pretty much the same. The blend is a 0w20 however.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I'm running synthetic in my car right now. The difference in the way the engine operates is amazing.


What are the noted differences in using synthetic over conventional? I just used a synthetic BLEND in my Accord for the first time. I have always used synthetic. It idles smooth, drives smooth as is it did with full synthetic. I dont really notice any difference in engine noise. So all in all pretty much the same. The blend is a 0w20 however.


Same here, never noticed any differences between syn, dino or blnds.

 

[lugNutz]

Oh my goodness! Been a busy week and it sucks that I couldn't jump in here earlier!!!

Anyway, the side that I took on this argument was that it was NOT necessary to use ONLY synthetic. The car that is referenced is a 2005 Pontiac GTO. My assumption and general understanding of why it was stated that synthetic is recommended (previously incorrectly stated as MUST BE SYNTHETIC by me) was because only SOME oils met the GM spec at that time, and those oils were synthetic. As most of us know, with time, oils only get better. Most SN oils now, meet the spec required at that time, be it dino or synblend.

To keep stating my case in other directions, the reason for the thread was because he will not do his own oil changes and takes it to places -- firestone in particular, which tries to refuse putting in anything other than synthetic, and charges a fortune to do it. So I told him to do some demanding, or have ME do his OC's.

I do realize that by doing the OC myself, it makes more sense to just stick with a good syn, and that is what I personally do. I guess the whole argument to begin with was due to the fact that I was [censored] that a place refused to put in anything but a syn when there is no harm of using a dino or blend that meets spec.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: lugNutz

To keep stating my case in other directions, the reason for the thread was because he will not do his own oil changes and takes it to places -- firestone in particular, which tries to refuse putting in anything other than synthetic, and charges a fortune to do it. So I told him to do some demanding, or have ME do his OC's.

I do realize that by doing the OC myself, it makes more sense to just stick with a good syn, and that is what I personally do. I guess the whole argument to begin with was due to the fact that I was [censored] that a place refused to put in anything but a syn when there is no harm of using a dino or blend that meets spec.

Wherever I worked, I was given the opposite problem. No matter what car called for synthetic oil, if the customer demanded the basic conventional oil change, I was stuck doing that. It really upset me. To protect myself, I would write numerous notes on the work order stating that I was ordered to put the wrong stuff in a car, and that someone else has to take the blame when something goes wrong.

I would always hope that if someone was ordered to use wrong oil, that it would be someone who knew so little about cars that they wouldn't care.

You might be able to get away with dino or blend in an LS-series engine, but the repair shop sees a big risk of problems.

 

[Triton_330]

Originally Posted By: artificialist

You might be able to get away with dino or blend in an LS-series engine, but the repair shop sees a big risk of problems.


I highly doubt that any actual problems would occur just from using dino oil in any engine as long as the oil is API certified. I mean, sure, we all know that Dexos spec'd oils are officially proven to a higher standard than non-dexos oils... BUT, we also should know that any API certified oil (of course, the cert that is respective to the year of the vehicle or newer, ergo, SM, SN...) will be sufficient in protecting the engine (with respectable OCI's).

Correct me if I'm mistaken, please.

 

[dailydriver]

^^^Firestone uses Kendall GT oils.

Just have him request the GT-1 synthetic blend stuff (the one with the titanium additive pack) when he goes there, and he can even get it done for I believe that this now meets ALL of the GM/Dexos 1 specs, so they should not argue.
I don't know whether or not I personally trust the filter they use in this special, but some on here claim it IS made by Champ Labs, so how bad could it be??

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330
I highly doubt that any actual problems would occur just from using dino oil in any engine as long as the oil is API certified. I mean, sure, we all know that Dexos spec'd oils are officially proven to a higher standard than non-dexos oils... BUT, we also should know that any API certified oil (of course, the cert that is respective to the year of the vehicle or newer, ergo, SM, SN...) will be sufficient in protecting the engine (with respectable OCI's).

Correct me if I'm mistaken, please.

Some years ago Mercedes Benz got a class action lawsuit for not clearly stated in the owner manual that only synthetic oil is allowed if owners follow the FSS (MB oil life monitor).

Some drivers used conventional oil for up to 16-18k miles according to FSS and had engines damaged by sludge.

The total cost to Mercedes was about $100 mils.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Triton_330
I highly doubt that any actual problems would occur just from using dino oil in any engine as long as the oil is API certified. I mean, sure, we all know that Dexos spec'd oils are officially proven to a higher standard than non-dexos oils... BUT, we also should know that any API certified oil (of course, the cert that is respective to the year of the vehicle or newer, ergo, SM, SN...) will be sufficient in protecting the engine (with respectable OCI's).

Correct me if I'm mistaken, please.

Some years ago Mercedes Benz got a class action lawsuit for not clearly stated in the owner manual that only synthetic oil is allowed if owners follow the FSS (MB oil life monitor).

Some drivers used conventional oil for up to 16-18k miles according to FSS and had engines damaged by sludge.

The total cost to Mercedes was about $100 mils.


Yes, but as Triton mentioned, 'with respectable oci'. 16k -18k miles on dino is definitely not that. I would venture to say this mileage is a stretch for many synthetics as well.

 

[yvon_la]

I can understand customer point of view.if they read a bit online and find out that a lot of line have been blurred,they hear dino are getting synthetic and synthetic getting dino oil.people are likely to wonder why they would pay premium.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: lugNutz
Okay, knowing the vast amount of knowledge of members here, I need everyone's help to solve a heated debate.

I am currently arguing with someone about the fact that a car which says to ONLY use synthetic motor oil, MUST ONLY use synthetic -- and no dino or blends.

I will not state which side I am taking, just to eliminate any claims of favoritism en light of me being a BITOG member.

Please help solve this argument!


The only division between Grp II conventional basestocks and Grp III synthetic basestocks is that if a basestock has a VI of greater than 120, it's considered a Grp III.
Most OTS syns are mostly composed of Grp III basestocks.
The point I'm trying to make is that these basestocks exist along a continuum and that the distinction between an oil labeled as synthetic and one labeled as conventional is an arbitrary one based upon VI.
Oils intended to meet standards more demanding than API SN may have a lower proportion of Grp III and higher proportions of Grps IV and V and may also contain stronger add packs.
It isn't just a matter of synthetic versus conventional.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27


The only division between Grp II conventional basestocks and Grp III synthetic basestocks is that if a basestock has a VI of greater than 120, it's considered a Grp III.
Most OTS syns are mostly composed of Grp III basestocks.
The point I'm trying to make is that these basestocks exist along a continuum and that the distinction between an oil labeled as synthetic and one labeled as conventional is an arbitrary one based upon VI.
Oils intended to meet standards more demanding than API SN may have a lower proportion of Grp III and higher proportions of Grps IV and V and may also contain stronger add packs.
It isn't just a matter of synthetic versus conventional.


We are mired in synventionals.

 

[yvon_la]

Amzoil did an article on this about some oil maker willfully trying to blurr the line between group 3 and 4 ,some even wanted to call their oil group 3+ rofl.nothing wrong with each group but they have their designation for very good reason .

 

[Scout1]

I think it's kind of funny around here; change a synthetic oil early and you get flamed for wasting good oil and hear comments like "why don't you just use a conventional if you're going to change that early!" So of course you can use conventional instead of synthetic.

Depends on how you drive - don't go racing on conventional with a motor that specs synthetic. Depends on how long you run the oil - don't go 10k on conventional. And depends on the motor you're talking about - don't put conventional in a known sludge monster that specs synthetic or has some other known problem like TDI camshaft wear.

It's no different than people using different viscosity oil than spec - it works just fine. Generates lots of opinions, but works just fine.