It was mine, too, and a fun hobby at that.
Oil opinions after dumping FF
- Thread starter JoelB
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- Oct 28, 2014
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Originally Posted By: ToadU
I will counter with fleets like my wrecker fleet. Nothing gets changed early. We run everything to specs for the duty cycles we put on the trucks per owners manual. (and cars for my salespeople). Having owned a shop as well and having at various times been the low bidder to maintain both police, city vehicles and county school busses I can tell you every fluid was run as per manufacturer and zero early changes of FF or ANY fluid ever occurred. Oils and filters and other items were the absolute cheapest I could buy in bulk that met the required specs. ($1.50 oil filters for police cars) I never cheated and always provided what the manual and my bid said I would. I certainly didn't provide more and never bought what you would consider brand names. Overall fleet wide with all different types of motors--gas and diesel--manufacturers and even a lot of hydrualic equipment (my wreckers) the fleets have all been extremely reliable overall.
Everyone of my wreckers gets all the AC vents broken within 4 months by the drivers, knobs ripped off stereos and seats ripped Ect. Think how these guys are driving my trucks. Spinning the duals on a F550. They shift from drive to reverse to drive without a full stop. (95 percent of our towing is tresspass towing so it's go go go fast fast fast). We drive over curbs at high speeds.
I am extremely confident big fleets nationwide never get anything other than minimal intervals, never early FF changes and the cheapest fluids and filters meeting minimum spec. That's IF the fleets are well maintained. A lot of fleets fall below this minimun level. Overall fleet vehciles are the most reliable, hardest run, beat on and rack up huge huge huge mileages throughout their service life. Ever seen the odometer on a police car, city bus or taxi cab?? Luminas and Crown Vic's with 400k original motors are not a rarity. Most of thr times the drivers don't care about the vehicle and dog it and most fleets idle constantly and do short stop and go driving. That's thr hardest type of driving yet we are seeing huge odometer numbers with very good realiability overall.
I don't think anyone can prove early FF changes, more aggressive maintenance and boutique and high dollar filters and fluids do anything to extend the life of the vehicle. We do have plenty of evidence proving the factory spec'd intervals and fluids work very well. We have some evidence to at least indicate the possibility over maintenace can cause harm. Dirty filters are more effective that new ones....harsh additive packages never being run out Ect.... We do know people performing overly aggressive maint waste money. We do know it's not good for the environment.
UOAs back this up. Oil is oil if it meets spec. Dino can be very robust. Even the lest conservative maint intervals per manuals are extremely conservative.
I will counter this perspective with the mere fact that bypass filter manufacturers exist. This response is obviously in reference to fleets; what is not good for the environment is factory OCI. Bypass filtration greatly extends OCI; One million miles between overhauls is no longer rare in the trucking industry. I didn't make this statement up: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/681/oil-filter Try telling these guys to disonnect their bypass filtration systems: http://marineoiltechnology.com/applications/ http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/Testimonials.htm
50,000 hour Diesel engine off-highway industrial rebuilds are possible: http://bakkenoilbiz.com/trucking/50000-hour-off-highway-diesel-engine-rebuilds-they-are-possible/
You can google Hare Trucking; Mr. Hare ran a fleet of 100 trucks for one million miles EACH TRUCK without a single oil change. http://www.marketwired.com/press-release...ange-793914.htm Try telling Mr. Ross Hare that his overly aggressive maintenance is a waste of money. https://www.puradyn.com/5-6-testimonials-2/
Here are a few well known manufacturers of bypass systems; and BITOG has a forum for bypass filtration. Many of the below manufacturers are discussed on BITOG under the bypass forum:
https://allsynoil.com/Amsoil-By-Pass-Oil-Filter-Systems.html
http://www.kleenoilusa.com/
http://www.frantzfilters.com/
http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/index.htm
http://www.ecomicrofilters.com/
http://www.fs2500.com/
https://www.puradyn.com/
http://www.ntz-filter.com/index.php?id=11
http://stauffusa.com/customer/stcorp/catalog/Catalog_PDFs/Filtration/Filter_BPLS.pdf
http://www.generation2filtration.com/
http://www.perfectfiltration.com/page.php?app_id=19
http://cleanoilpower.com/system/
To Mr. ToadU: You never stated the size of your fleet or the number of diesels you run, but I would think if it is anything substantial, you should thank me for my input, not ridicule or name call me, and I wouldn't mind discussing this with you over an adult beverage or two. The most effective filtration you can possibly have is a centrifuge combined with bypass filtration: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29426/purifying-engine-oil It has been stated on this forum that no matter how effective the filtration is, the additives still deplete and the oil will eventually need changing....Really? Read this: https://www.puradyn.com/filter-elements/ Puradyn has 5 US patents; one of them is for timed-released additives to maintain your TBN. IF you were to run Puradyn filters WITH a centrifuge, could YOU go a million miles without an oil change or 50,000 hours without a rebuild? Hmmmmmm?
To the OP: This is a little off topic, but if I had a new vehicle, bypass filtration would definitely be installed. I am running an NTZ bypass filter, which is 99.97% effective at 2 microns. http://www.ntzfilter.com/popup/slide26.asp
I will counter with fleets like my wrecker fleet. Nothing gets changed early. We run everything to specs for the duty cycles we put on the trucks per owners manual. (and cars for my salespeople). Having owned a shop as well and having at various times been the low bidder to maintain both police, city vehicles and county school busses I can tell you every fluid was run as per manufacturer and zero early changes of FF or ANY fluid ever occurred. Oils and filters and other items were the absolute cheapest I could buy in bulk that met the required specs. ($1.50 oil filters for police cars) I never cheated and always provided what the manual and my bid said I would. I certainly didn't provide more and never bought what you would consider brand names. Overall fleet wide with all different types of motors--gas and diesel--manufacturers and even a lot of hydrualic equipment (my wreckers) the fleets have all been extremely reliable overall.
Everyone of my wreckers gets all the AC vents broken within 4 months by the drivers, knobs ripped off stereos and seats ripped Ect. Think how these guys are driving my trucks. Spinning the duals on a F550. They shift from drive to reverse to drive without a full stop. (95 percent of our towing is tresspass towing so it's go go go fast fast fast). We drive over curbs at high speeds.
I am extremely confident big fleets nationwide never get anything other than minimal intervals, never early FF changes and the cheapest fluids and filters meeting minimum spec. That's IF the fleets are well maintained. A lot of fleets fall below this minimun level. Overall fleet vehciles are the most reliable, hardest run, beat on and rack up huge huge huge mileages throughout their service life. Ever seen the odometer on a police car, city bus or taxi cab?? Luminas and Crown Vic's with 400k original motors are not a rarity. Most of thr times the drivers don't care about the vehicle and dog it and most fleets idle constantly and do short stop and go driving. That's thr hardest type of driving yet we are seeing huge odometer numbers with very good realiability overall.
I don't think anyone can prove early FF changes, more aggressive maintenance and boutique and high dollar filters and fluids do anything to extend the life of the vehicle. We do have plenty of evidence proving the factory spec'd intervals and fluids work very well. We have some evidence to at least indicate the possibility over maintenace can cause harm. Dirty filters are more effective that new ones....harsh additive packages never being run out Ect.... We do know people performing overly aggressive maint waste money. We do know it's not good for the environment.
UOAs back this up. Oil is oil if it meets spec. Dino can be very robust. Even the lest conservative maint intervals per manuals are extremely conservative.
I will counter this perspective with the mere fact that bypass filter manufacturers exist. This response is obviously in reference to fleets; what is not good for the environment is factory OCI. Bypass filtration greatly extends OCI; One million miles between overhauls is no longer rare in the trucking industry. I didn't make this statement up: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/681/oil-filter Try telling these guys to disonnect their bypass filtration systems: http://marineoiltechnology.com/applications/ http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/Testimonials.htm
50,000 hour Diesel engine off-highway industrial rebuilds are possible: http://bakkenoilbiz.com/trucking/50000-hour-off-highway-diesel-engine-rebuilds-they-are-possible/
You can google Hare Trucking; Mr. Hare ran a fleet of 100 trucks for one million miles EACH TRUCK without a single oil change. http://www.marketwired.com/press-release...ange-793914.htm Try telling Mr. Ross Hare that his overly aggressive maintenance is a waste of money. https://www.puradyn.com/5-6-testimonials-2/
Here are a few well known manufacturers of bypass systems; and BITOG has a forum for bypass filtration. Many of the below manufacturers are discussed on BITOG under the bypass forum:
https://allsynoil.com/Amsoil-By-Pass-Oil-Filter-Systems.html
http://www.kleenoilusa.com/
http://www.frantzfilters.com/
http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/index.htm
http://www.ecomicrofilters.com/
http://www.fs2500.com/
https://www.puradyn.com/
http://www.ntz-filter.com/index.php?id=11
http://stauffusa.com/customer/stcorp/catalog/Catalog_PDFs/Filtration/Filter_BPLS.pdf
http://www.generation2filtration.com/
http://www.perfectfiltration.com/page.php?app_id=19
http://cleanoilpower.com/system/
To Mr. ToadU: You never stated the size of your fleet or the number of diesels you run, but I would think if it is anything substantial, you should thank me for my input, not ridicule or name call me, and I wouldn't mind discussing this with you over an adult beverage or two. The most effective filtration you can possibly have is a centrifuge combined with bypass filtration: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29426/purifying-engine-oil It has been stated on this forum that no matter how effective the filtration is, the additives still deplete and the oil will eventually need changing....Really? Read this: https://www.puradyn.com/filter-elements/ Puradyn has 5 US patents; one of them is for timed-released additives to maintain your TBN. IF you were to run Puradyn filters WITH a centrifuge, could YOU go a million miles without an oil change or 50,000 hours without a rebuild? Hmmmmmm?
To the OP: This is a little off topic, but if I had a new vehicle, bypass filtration would definitely be installed. I am running an NTZ bypass filter, which is 99.97% effective at 2 microns. http://www.ntzfilter.com/popup/slide26.asp
Originally Posted By: BeerCan
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil
.
I'm not going to play your silly games boy. I am here on a discussion forum to have fun with subjects I like, not to defend a thesis or see who's e-peen is bigger.
Thanks BeerCan. I agree that this forum is supposed to be enjoyable, not confrontational or filled with derogatory remarks.
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil
.
I'm not going to play your silly games boy. I am here on a discussion forum to have fun with subjects I like, not to defend a thesis or see who's e-peen is bigger.
Thanks BeerCan. I agree that this forum is supposed to be enjoyable, not confrontational or filled with derogatory remarks.
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Originally Posted By: bigt61
to ihatetochangeoil - Here's some pics I took of my sons oil filter after 8000+ miles on the factory fill - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...lte#Post4069441 - appears very clean to me - no debris.
to OP - I'd run FF to OLM and make 1st two changes a semi-synthetic to help the rings seat better - run both to OLM. After that, full synthetic of your choice. Always stay topped off.
In contrast, you should have seen the sparklies in the oil that came out of my 6.4. I have yet to cut the filter but I know how the oil looked. 2nd oil change was much, MUCH cleaner.
to ihatetochangeoil - Here's some pics I took of my sons oil filter after 8000+ miles on the factory fill - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...lte#Post4069441 - appears very clean to me - no debris.
to OP - I'd run FF to OLM and make 1st two changes a semi-synthetic to help the rings seat better - run both to OLM. After that, full synthetic of your choice. Always stay topped off.
In contrast, you should have seen the sparklies in the oil that came out of my 6.4. I have yet to cut the filter but I know how the oil looked. 2nd oil change was much, MUCH cleaner.
Originally Posted By: ToadU
" but what does it hurt to spend a few extra dollars here and there?
People need to stop trying to draw black and white conclusions from everything they read and just do what you want to do!"
It hurts the bottom line and for businesses it's ALL about profit.
I'm not trying to be rude or smart but if someone doesn't want comments don't post online on a public forum. This is a just academic discussion. No one is coming to your house with a gun to stop you from doing what you want to do.
It's easy to prove factory maint specs for intervals and fluid work and work well. UOAs almost always show an extremely conservative margin of safety with factory spec fluids and factory intervals. Manufacturers spends tons and tons and tons of resources testing and validating. Major manufactures have multimillion dollar proving grounds in addition to taking their products all over the world to extreme environments probably 90 plus percent of owners will never experience.
It's impossible to show early FF changes and overly aggressive maintenance actually do anyhring but make someone feel good, waste money and waste limited environmental resources.
Small fleet owner here, too. And it is about the bottom line. We always change by OLM due to extensive stationary operation at either 1500 or 1750 rpm. Then all inner city traffic with an occasional blast on the interstate between counties and such. Our OLM's almost always trip before 5k, typical is 4400-4500 miles.
I see a lot of "feel good" mods. Especially here where we all obsess to excess about lubrication. But in over 44 years of driving I have never seen anyone save money by changing oil early.
I will proudly state their right to do whatever they want to their own vehicle. But just don't make it sound like everyone should...
" but what does it hurt to spend a few extra dollars here and there?
People need to stop trying to draw black and white conclusions from everything they read and just do what you want to do!"
It hurts the bottom line and for businesses it's ALL about profit.
I'm not trying to be rude or smart but if someone doesn't want comments don't post online on a public forum. This is a just academic discussion. No one is coming to your house with a gun to stop you from doing what you want to do.
It's easy to prove factory maint specs for intervals and fluid work and work well. UOAs almost always show an extremely conservative margin of safety with factory spec fluids and factory intervals. Manufacturers spends tons and tons and tons of resources testing and validating. Major manufactures have multimillion dollar proving grounds in addition to taking their products all over the world to extreme environments probably 90 plus percent of owners will never experience.
It's impossible to show early FF changes and overly aggressive maintenance actually do anyhring but make someone feel good, waste money and waste limited environmental resources.
Small fleet owner here, too. And it is about the bottom line. We always change by OLM due to extensive stationary operation at either 1500 or 1750 rpm. Then all inner city traffic with an occasional blast on the interstate between counties and such. Our OLM's almost always trip before 5k, typical is 4400-4500 miles.
I see a lot of "feel good" mods. Especially here where we all obsess to excess about lubrication. But in over 44 years of driving I have never seen anyone save money by changing oil early.
I will proudly state their right to do whatever they want to their own vehicle. But just don't make it sound like everyone should...
Did my first 2016 Versa oil change at 2500 miles. I too went back and forth on the topic. Oil and filter that exited looked great. I also cut the filter and couldn't even see any metal sparkles or foreign debris. I used pain ol dino Peak 5w30 since I still have a bunch. I really love this little car! Hard to beat my 38.8 mpg average and I dont even have 3000 miles on it yet.
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