Nokian Alternative

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I find the Nokian WRs to be a great winter tire in the Boston area. The provide an adequate ride quality on dry pavement (which covers 90+% of my winter driving) and good traction in snow and slush - the rest of my winter driving. I wouldn't mind using them year round, though I do switch to a summer tire because I prefer the slightly better ride quality from my summer tires and am willing to deal with the hassle of the twice a year changeovers and the storage space they take.

We all know that all tires are compromises in some way or another. Given accurate information about what those compromises are, we can all make our own decisions on what tires to use when - and those decisions don't all have to be the same.
 
I live in an area that gets 4 to 5 months of snow and icy conditions and I tried a set of Nokian WR's on my 2000 Toyota Sienna. I was disapointed with the winter performance as compared to my other car which had a set of Blizzaks. I ran them back to back in the same conditions and the difference was dramatic.

Also, the WR's only lasted about 80,000 km during year around use and only got worse in winter performance as they wore out. I eventually got a set of rims and Blizzak's for winter and replaced the Wr's with all seasons for summer use.

Nokian WR's are so-so winter/allseason tires. They were as good or better than the best all seasons on snow and ice but they are not in the same league as a real snow tire such as Blizzak WS-50.

I would only recommend them for areas that get occasional winter conditions. For real winter get real winter tires.
 
"I would only recommend them for areas that get occasional winter conditions. For real winter get real winter tires."



Kind of the consensus of opinion. And, it is what I do too here in Chicago where the winters aren't as bad as Minneapolis.

I'll bring the details to him, and maybe he'll "see the light".
Thanks for your thoughts here guys - don't underestimate your points of view, I value them.
 
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I got Nokian WRs last October on my Saturn SL2, they did well all winter and this was a snowy one (but not like where I grew up in the central Upper Peninsula). A buddy of mine puts Blizzaks on all his vehicles for the winter...his daughter had to make an emergency stop and did so quickly, but not the guy in the pickup truck behind her; fortunately no one was hurt.
 
The Blizzaks are the best premium snow I ever ran. Pricey, but boy oh boy, do they perform. There are others that do very well also, but I would buy the Blizzaks again tomorrow if I needed snows.
 
The problem I have with Blizzaks is that after half the tread is gone it becomes a regular all-season tire. I want a full snow tire that is a snow until the day it dies, like my Nokain Hak IIs (now in their death throes).
 
Originally Posted By: glennc
The problem I have with Blizzaks is that after half the tread is gone it becomes a regular all-season tire. I want a full snow tire that is a snow until the day it dies, like my Nokain Hak IIs (now in their death throes).

I thought some of the Blizzaks have Bridgestone's "Tube Multicell tube" which forms maybe the outer half of the tread. They claim that the Blizzak WS-50 has a base with a standard winter compound. By the time it's that worn, it won't meet California (and perhaps other states') standard for a "snow tread tire" anyways. I think most of their winter tires are built with the muticell or tube multicell compound over a standard winter compound.

http://www.bridgestonetire.com/winterdriving/winterdriving_us/switch.aspx?id=mobility

If you get Bridgestone's performance winter tires, they come with a high-silica winter compound. Apparently the multicell compounds aren't suitable for higher speeds - not that anyone in their right mind drives 130 in winter conditions.
 
Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
I'm glad he changes the oil!!


If he is handy enough to change his own oil, I see no reason why he can't change his own tires twice a year as well. I started changing tires way before I started changing oil. It's much easier actually. All you need is another set of wheels, torque wrench, extension, socket, some lug nuts (Tire Rack includes them), space to store it and a jack. Wheel locks are optional. All in all should cost around $200. You save a lot more in the long run.

With expensive all seasons you just overpaying for bigger compromise. And they get worn out faster because you have them on all year around. If you have a garage, these high price, high profile all season tires don't make sense from neither economical, practical nor performance standpoint. You way better of with two sets of season tires.


Just out of curiosity, what do you do during the transitional periods between fall/winter and between winter/spring? I use Blizzaks in the winter and a performance all season for the rest of the year. I've considered summer tires because they would be better during the warmer months but I think I would be forced to run my winter tires during those transitional periods which would be a compromise also since the summer tires would be worthless if I got a little snow or ice outside of the normal winter season.

The only way to avoid any compromises is to be ready to change your tires daily between a winter/all season/summer tire.
 
Nokian builds the best winter tires on the market, regarding the WR it has actually beaten out dedicated winter tires in winter tire comparisons, while still maintaining a 100,000km treadlife warranty. The WR is not an easy tire to decipher on paper, it bridges a gap no other manufacturer has done.

Nokian has the uncanny ability to create excellent cold weather grip and uncompromised tread life, no one else has done such a thing. Thier dedicated winter tires outshine everything short of custom studding and are unequalled for tread life. How's a set of 205/65-15 Hak Q's, 9 years old with over 120,000km's of winter use sound, being replaced finally this fall. Who else has done this.

The Finnish know winter tires.
 
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Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
I'm glad he changes the oil!!


If he is handy enough to change his own oil, I see no reason why he can't change his own tires twice a year as well. I started changing tires way before I started changing oil. It's much easier actually. All you need is another set of wheels, torque wrench, extension, socket, some lug nuts (Tire Rack includes them), space to store it and a jack. Wheel locks are optional. All in all should cost around $200. You save a lot more in the long run.

With expensive all seasons you just overpaying for bigger compromise. And they get worn out faster because you have them on all year around. If you have a garage, these high price, high profile all season tires don't make sense from neither economical, practical nor performance standpoint. You way better of with two sets of season tires.


Just out of curiosity, what do you do during the transitional periods between fall/winter and between winter/spring? I use Blizzaks in the winter and a performance all season for the rest of the year. I've considered summer tires because they would be better during the warmer months but I think I would be forced to run my winter tires during those transitional periods which would be a compromise also since the summer tires would be worthless if I got a little snow or ice outside of the normal winter season.

The only way to avoid any compromises is to be ready to change your tires daily between a winter/all season/summer tire.

I used to work in downtown Berkeley, California. The winters here are extremely mild. It might dip into the mid-30's each year and freezing temps are seldom. Snow is a once in 25 years event.

I saw a WRX in a garage near work shod with Dunlop SP Winter Sport tires (might have been M3?). It had a ski rack and I'm guessing the owner took it regularly to the Sierras over the winter. It was an HR speed rated tire and I guess the owner was willing to put up with the accelerated wear, reduced performance compared to performance all-seasons, and (obviously) increased noise. I'm guessing that at most those tires spent 20% of their mileage in areas that had a reasonable chance of snow.
 
Originally Posted By: CrazyMike
Nokian builds the best winter tires on the market, regarding the WR it has actually beaten out dedicated winter tires in winter tire comparisons, while still maintaining a 100,000km treadlife warranty.

Totally forgot about the treadlife warranty. Ours wore out in about 30k miles, while their treadlife warranty in the US is 50k miles. We could have probably gotten a discount towards another set of Nokians. Not sure if that warranty was in place back in 2003 when we bought them.
 
WR's sell huge up here, many sets exceed 100,000km's, but the vehicle and the regional temp has alot to do with it. My shipper here at the mil, wife drives a Olds Intrigue, got 118,000km's out of a set, but I hardly think there was ANY agressive driving along with that.
 
Originally Posted By: CrazyMike
WR's sell huge up here, many sets exceed 100,000km's, but the vehicle and the regional temp has alot to do with it.

Yeah, no kidding. After we took them to Texas, they were shot in 10k miles.
 
Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
I'm glad he changes the oil!!


If he is handy enough to change his own oil, I see no reason why he can't change his own tires twice a year as well. I started changing tires way before I started changing oil. It's much easier actually. All you need is another set of wheels, torque wrench, extension, socket, some lug nuts (Tire Rack includes them), space to store it and a jack. Wheel locks are optional. All in all should cost around $200. You save a lot more in the long run.

With expensive all seasons you just overpaying for bigger compromise. And they get worn out faster because you have them on all year around. If you have a garage, these high price, high profile all season tires don't make sense from neither economical, practical nor performance standpoint. You way better of with two sets of season tires.


Just out of curiosity, what do you do during the transitional periods between fall/winter and between winter/spring? I use Blizzaks in the winter and a performance all season for the rest of the year. I've considered summer tires because they would be better during the warmer months but I think I would be forced to run my winter tires during those transitional periods which would be a compromise also since the summer tires would be worthless if I got a little snow or ice outside of the normal winter season.

The only way to avoid any compromises is to be ready to change your tires daily between a winter/all season/summer tire.


I see your point. When I'm not running winter tires I'm running summer tires. But that's only because there aren't any high performance all season tires like Bridgestone 960 or something like that in my size. Otherwise I would have done just what you did. I bought my current summer tires because they were the only high performance-high traction choice I had in my wheel size.

Luckily seasons here in WI are more or less well defined and predictable and allow me to have summer tires, although there were some exceptions before when I already taken off winter tires and put summer tires on and then snow storm kicked in. I had to call in work that day. Other than that it's just not very cold temps and no snow during transitional months. I usualy keep my summers till first snow hits, after that you know it will be cold so I put my winter tires on without reservations. Then I keep winters on untill it becomes warm in spring. So yeah I compromise a bit but luckily for me weather allows to do that without much risk.

UHP A/S tire will be better at handling colder temperatures but still will have better traction than regular all season tire in summer. Then snow kicks in and that's where I whip out my winter tires.
These in between season periods you talking about, it depends on particular state and its climate to choose the most appropriate tire. I personally prefer to suffer a bit during the late fall to have a good traction for the rest of the year. But then again WI climate allows me to do that. But if you have crazy unpredictable weather in your state than all seasons could be the way to go. Don't necessarily relly on advises here, just see better for yourself. Important thing is that you got options and that's the good thing.
 
Originally Posted By: CrazyMike
Nokian builds the best winter tires on the market, regarding the WR it has actually beaten out dedicated winter tires in winter tire comparisons


I find that hard to belive. Care to provide links for those tests? I read a test in foreign car magazine where they do A LOT OF SERIOUS tire comparison tests every year. Although they test summer and all season tires too, winter tire tests is their specialty. They go to notorious snowy places and test the heck out of those tires for real. So they did a winter tire test where they put those WR against bunch of real winter tires. They said they knew the WR was not a real winter tire but did that for kicks anyway. Guess what, WR came dead last. The only good thing they had to say about them was good dry traction. But who needs that in winter tire?!
Your point about Nokian longevity is right though. I have them on two cars and they are on their third season and still going strong for about two more seasons easy! It's easy to see why winter Nokians are a good choice.
 
Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
Originally Posted By: CrazyMike
Nokian builds the best winter tires on the market, regarding the WR it has actually beaten out dedicated winter tires in winter tire comparisons


I find that hard to belive. Care to provide links for those tests? I read a test in foreign car magazine where they do A LOT OF SERIOUS tire comparison tests every year. Although they test summer and all season tires too, winter tire tests is their specialty. They go to notorious snowy places and test the heck out of those tires for real. So they did a winter tire test where they put those WR against bunch of real winter tires. They said they knew the WR was not a real winter tire but did that for kicks anyway. Guess what, WR came dead last. The only good thing they had to say about them was good dry traction. But who needs that in winter tire?!
Your point about Nokian longevity is right though. I have them on two cars and they are on their third season and still going strong for about two more seasons easy! It's easy to see why winter Nokians are a good choice.


I found the comparisons on the web at least 2-4 years ago, not sure if it's still hosted. One tire it was rated better overall that I can remember was Dunlop's Graspic non-directional winter tire. Lemme see if I can dig it up eh.
 
http://apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=97 http://apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=97

Found this fairly recent test comparing the Nokian WR to other winter tires. The Nokian WR ended up "In a class by itself".


"...while the WR’s tread design makes it look like a winter tire, it is in reality an all-season tire that can be used in the winter. It performs adequately in winter conditions, but doesn’t perform as well as its tread design would indicate as its rubber compound is formulated for all-season use."
 
It'd be interesting to see more detailed info about this test's methodology and the actual results rather than some simple point system.

I agree though that WR is not a heavy-duty hard core winter tire. It was never meant to be. It's a performance winter tire for more sporty cars that still value good cold weather clean road handling. I believe Pirelli Winter Carving also belongs in that category, but they don't provide any test scores for it, other than saying it's their "top pick"
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Another one: Conti TS810 only gets an acceptable rating.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
It's a performance winter tire for more sporty cars that still value good cold weather clean road handling.


ROTFL! Sorry that is just too funny. If that tire is anything it is not "performance" because it doesn't really PERFORM neither in winter, nor in summer.
 
Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
It's a performance winter tire for more sporty cars that still value good cold weather clean road handling.


ROTFL! Sorry that is just too funny. If that tire is anything it is not "performance" because it doesn't really PERFORM neither in winter, nor in summer.


I kind of agree.

IF I get any Nokian, it's going to be a real winter tire like the Rsi, or Hakka 4(?).
I need ALL of the help I can get in bad conditions with this beast!!
 
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