Nitrogen fill for $199

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Have spent a pretty lazy Saturday ruminating on a bunch of topics, and this one has been foremost.

Taking CapriRacer's most recent post about small improvements adding up, they most certainly do.

Everyone would agree that a thermosyphon works, hot fluid being less dense rises, cools, falls...it's how high and low pressure systems work, low pressure at the equator etc.

Doing the numbers, an F1 tyre has a radius of about a foot, and at a 100MPH corner...That's a couple of thousand "G"s.

So any thermosyphon effect that would take heat from the hot tread to the magnesium rim in a static world is accentuated a few thousand fold (at 160km/hr...then punt it down the straight at double that).

I can see now that all else being equal, the inside rim could move heat away from the tread, as the hot gas next to the tread is heading to the rim 2000 times quicker then at ambient temperature/pressure.

Then has to be a gas with the right temperature/density/heat capacity. (Power Station generators are hydrogen filled, as they have lower windage, and great heat transfer)
 
These dealers have to keep coming up with these types of gimmicks to try to make extra money on new car sales. It's hard to screw over customers when the customers have all the car prices at their finger tips. Around here the dealers etch every car and try to charge $200 for the service. So now you have ugly numbers etched on every window. Don't get me started on Doc fees. In my state the lobbyist for the car dealership association convinced the State senate to raise the limit on Doc fees, and it passed!
 
Sorry, but $35 is also insane... unless you got those pretty green valve caps...!

The benefits to the average driver are miniscule... the benefit to the shop, however, is very real...
 
Wasteful. Had my winter tires on since November, havent had to fill them once..and I use plain air. Never had an issue with air filled tires.
 
Originally Posted By: SF0059
I just had nitrogen put in the Odyssey's tires for $35 today when I had new tires installed. $199 is all kinds of insane.


Haha - 35 bucks isn't much better - congrats on the new tires.
 
Where I live we have widely fluctuating temperatures from negative all the way to triple digits. Say what you will, the nitrogen has been much more consistent at maintaining tire pressure than air in my vehicles. That is my reason for going with nitrogen. Every time I check them is the same as the last... Worth the $35 for convenience... $199,not so much.
 
^^^Please don't get all offended, but since Nitrogen is governed by the same laws of physics as almost any other gas it still expands and contracts with the temperature.

No significant advantage over dry "air"...
 
Steve,
That's the problem with having pursued (in my case) an engineering rather than marketting career...Nitrogen and Water Wetter have so many more issues to content with in my universe than the marketting one.

Only tyre filling that I know of that's immune to pressure change with temperature is the tweel...
 
Haha, indeed. But stealerships have been inventing ways to part clients from their money since car sales began.

Their tactics are despicable, and folks just seem to want to waste money...
 
Well, the Michelin Tweel tire might be immune to pressure, but how would the elasticity of the rubber remain constant from like -35 degrees to 200+ operating temps?
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
^^^Please don't get all offended, but since Nitrogen is governed by the same laws of physics as almost any other gas it still expands and contracts with the temperature.

No significant advantage over dry "air"...


And the water vapour only becomes an issue at very high tire temps, as in race car tire temps... NOT street tire temps.

http://www.epicentermotorsports.com/files/Nitrogen_Inflation_Article.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: geeman789
And the water vapour only becomes an issue at very high tire temps, as in race car tire temps... NOT street tire temps.

http://www.epicentermotorsports.com/files/Nitrogen_Inflation_Article.pdf

I rather like the conclusion of your citation:

Conclusion
The advantages of using nitrogen far exceed the few drawbacks and are substantially better than
using compressed air. Nitrogen provides more predictable handling, doesn't contain potentially
corrosive water vapor, needs to be replaced less frequently, and is fairly inexpensive.


HTH
 
How about this citation:

"The miniscule benefit of using nitrogen in your tires is completely negated by spending money for it."
 
How do you know you're actually getting nitrogen anyways. I guess I am just skeptical of dealerships.

But anyways, here is the summary from an article posted on Scientific American website dated Sept. 08. 2008. Titled "Do Nitrogen-Filled Tires Enhance Fuel-Efficiency?"

"Nitrogen proponents may quibble that it’s the oxygen in the mix that causes problems, though, as oxidization can start to degrade the rubber inside tires while corroding the interior of the wheels as well. But Jackson counters that tires and wheels will have been long worn out on the outside before any oxygen-induced interior damage causes them to come apart. Also, he adds that a lot of the leakage from tires happens because the wheel and the tire do not line up perfectly, and air (or nitrogen) escapes accordingly.
Another factor, of course, is cost. Nitrogen-equipped service centers will fill up your tires with nitrogen for something like $10 per tire, which is a far cry from the couple of quarters (if even that) it takes to trigger the air machine at your local gas station. “When it comes down to a dollar decision, it’s hard to argue that spending as much as $40 for nitrogen in a set of tires is a good fiscal move,” writes Jackson. Save your money and just keep an eye on your tire pressures,” he concludes."





Sounds about right to me. Never had wheels or tires fail from internal corroding in thirty years of driving. I have seen plenty of tires dry rotting and cracking on the outside. I have even seen a set of old tires at a tire shop that were taken off a car because of serious cracks on the external sidewalls, but no sign of degrade inside.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Their tactics are despicable, and folks just seem to want to waste money...


Check out this one
http://www.pclairtechnology.com/MEDIA/Do...enceLeaflet.pdf

extolling the virtues, and displaying a reference list...

Then check out reference 7...

http://www.moderntiredealer.com/files/st...ktires-daws.pdf

Which is a really good and detailed analysis...


As pointed out, really despicable. The half truths, the assumptions. It preys on those who don't know enough to realize that.

Shameful!
 
Okay, so after reading the article, I am convinced of the benefits of 95% nitrogen over regular air. There would also be oxygen flow across the bead seats that wasn't addressed, causing corrosion of the bead seats. Then, what happens when tires are topped off with a nice shot of water laden air from the convenience store?
 
I've yet to see a corroded wheel from the inside and I live in a very humid climate.
The whole argument of N2 being more stable o cf er wide temperature swings is irrelevant in my experiences too. We see temps in the high 90s in the summer and saw lots of -teens and -20s as cold as -39f here this winter. I check my tire pressures every 2 weeks or before a long trip and guess what, have yet to add air to my tires this winter.

I'm surprised this thread has gone this far. I would expect a gimmick like this would be easily seen for what it is by a group of such generally conservative people.
 
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