Today morning TV show Sunrise asked "Do you think Iraq is another Vietnam." Over 70% said yes. Marines bombed a Mosque compound and another 40 dead. 12 Marines dead after attack. It's starting to look very messy IMO.
New Iraqi offensive?
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First of all, with all due respect what do the Aussies know about Nam? And a high percentage of them were chasing little girls around in grade school at that time. The only folks here in the U.S. (that know anything about Nam) who compare it to that conflict are the likes of underwater Kennedy and that crew. The other thing is that we lost in Nam bc the war was persued by the ultimate knucklehead Lyndon Johnson and his equally stupid "yes man" Sec of Defense Robert McNamara. That war was emmenitely winable.
That makes it official then. I wonder how many of that 70% could find Iraq on a map?
Keith.
Al,
Aussies supplied and sacrificed their own troops alongside ours fighting against the the Viet Cong and NV regulars. As did the South Koreans (ROKs).
Both are best of friends in nasty stuff. Good in a Bar fight too.
I agree that a morning TV show poll in Australia is not a good indicator of what we should do in Iraq.
The uprising is going to be crushed. Since the cowards are hiding in mosques using women and kids as shelter there will be collateral damage.
Once the Iraqis realize that we are not going to cause them as much pain as allowing this idiot "satr" character to make a political play then and only then will it end.
Ugly but no way but the hard way now.
Aussies supplied and sacrificed their own troops alongside ours fighting against the the Viet Cong and NV regulars. As did the South Koreans (ROKs).
Both are best of friends in nasty stuff. Good in a Bar fight too.
I agree that a morning TV show poll in Australia is not a good indicator of what we should do in Iraq.
The uprising is going to be crushed. Since the cowards are hiding in mosques using women and kids as shelter there will be collateral damage.
Once the Iraqis realize that we are not going to cause them as much pain as allowing this idiot "satr" character to make a political play then and only then will it end.
Ugly but no way but the hard way now.
"what do Aussies know about Nam"" Are you serious? Are you not aware that we were in Nam? I'm sure the Oz Vietnam Veterans would like to know they wern't actually there. Unbelievable!!
"They even attempted to overrun an American compound with a force of about 100 men...This is our chance to purge out (aka, kill) these thugs once and for all."
Sure, taking out 100 foreign fighters would be a piece of cake. But U.S. military commanders have estimated the al-Sadr force at 3,000 strong. A front page article in Monday's L.A. Times starts out, "Thousands of followers of a virulently anti-American Shiite cleric heeded his calls for an uprising against the U.S. occupation, storming police stations..." So that's 3,000 nuts loyal to just one turd in just one city in Iraq. Multiply that all the tribal factions and territories across the country, and we're talking many thousands of well armed fighters, not "100 men."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/iraq
"Things are going quite well in Iraq."
What kind of drugs you on, Pick? I've gotta get me some, whatever they are. LSD, I'm guessing. Or perhaps good 'ol Mary Jane..? Just today, ol' Rummy Boy himself disagreed with you, stating that US troops are facing a "serious problem" in Iraq as they seek to quell armed uprisings across the country. He also stated that personnel scheduled to be rotated out of the country will remain there due to a shortage of troops. Evidently this is all because "things are going quite well," as you say.
So, who's your dealer? And what can I get from him?
Sure, taking out 100 foreign fighters would be a piece of cake. But U.S. military commanders have estimated the al-Sadr force at 3,000 strong. A front page article in Monday's L.A. Times starts out, "Thousands of followers of a virulently anti-American Shiite cleric heeded his calls for an uprising against the U.S. occupation, storming police stations..." So that's 3,000 nuts loyal to just one turd in just one city in Iraq. Multiply that all the tribal factions and territories across the country, and we're talking many thousands of well armed fighters, not "100 men."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/iraq
"Things are going quite well in Iraq."
What kind of drugs you on, Pick? I've gotta get me some, whatever they are. LSD, I'm guessing. Or perhaps good 'ol Mary Jane..? Just today, ol' Rummy Boy himself disagreed with you, stating that US troops are facing a "serious problem" in Iraq as they seek to quell armed uprisings across the country. He also stated that personnel scheduled to be rotated out of the country will remain there due to a shortage of troops. Evidently this is all because "things are going quite well," as you say.
So, who's your dealer? And what can I get from him?
The Aussies Lost 500 in Nam as opposed to our 55,000 While I am not minumizing their contribution-my point is that I doubt it had the impact on Austraiia as it did in The U.S.
Had a huge effect here. The 59,000 plus who served were badly treated by the military, media, well you name it. Finally had a 'welcome home' here in Canberra in the 90's from memory.
Lenin and his troika would be proud of the way our governement informs its people. Words like "pacify", "selective campaign", specifically targeted" are just a spin on what really is going now. just a barrage of machine gun fire, artillery and even air support. If Bush thinks we will win Iraqis by destroying their homes and kill their innocent, he has lost the game already.
If your son is suspected of a crime here in US and the police is questioning you for his whereabouts would you like it if the cops demolished your house ? Of course not. Why apply this sort of "justice" in Iraq and expect to win the peoples hearts ?
cut the losses, offer the French, germans and russians a piece of the oil pie and bring in the UN. stop wasting lives unnecessarily in hopes only US companies will benefit in the future. And please don't anybody give me crap about the oil not being a reason for this war. Something that naturally was not commented on the "spin" media was the execution of the paraplygic Hamas leader by the Israelis. Sharon did it with Bushs approval as well as grabbing land that was awarded to the PLO by the Oslo accords by building that wall. The Iraqi shiite Sheik capitalized on that and issued the call on arms against the jews and their supporters, guess who our fellow soldiers in Iraq. WE WILL NEVER WIN THE ARAB PEOPLE UNLESS WE PUT THE ISRAELIS ON A LEASH. It is as simple as that, you can put a spin on it FOX news style, hide it behind your finger but it is the fundamental problem in Middle East. All the rest about arabs being jealous of US, not liking us for our freedom and wealth..blah... it's all a smoke screen. I say cut the aid to Israel ( I wanna see MY TAX money spend here) , slap them with an embargo and see how fast peace comes in Middle East. But of course this a fickle dream since our Jewish lobby would never allow that to happen. We are treating the symptoms instead of attacking the causes.
If your son is suspected of a crime here in US and the police is questioning you for his whereabouts would you like it if the cops demolished your house ? Of course not. Why apply this sort of "justice" in Iraq and expect to win the peoples hearts ?
cut the losses, offer the French, germans and russians a piece of the oil pie and bring in the UN. stop wasting lives unnecessarily in hopes only US companies will benefit in the future. And please don't anybody give me crap about the oil not being a reason for this war. Something that naturally was not commented on the "spin" media was the execution of the paraplygic Hamas leader by the Israelis. Sharon did it with Bushs approval as well as grabbing land that was awarded to the PLO by the Oslo accords by building that wall. The Iraqi shiite Sheik capitalized on that and issued the call on arms against the jews and their supporters, guess who our fellow soldiers in Iraq. WE WILL NEVER WIN THE ARAB PEOPLE UNLESS WE PUT THE ISRAELIS ON A LEASH. It is as simple as that, you can put a spin on it FOX news style, hide it behind your finger but it is the fundamental problem in Middle East. All the rest about arabs being jealous of US, not liking us for our freedom and wealth..blah... it's all a smoke screen. I say cut the aid to Israel ( I wanna see MY TAX money spend here) , slap them with an embargo and see how fast peace comes in Middle East. But of course this a fickle dream since our Jewish lobby would never allow that to happen. We are treating the symptoms instead of attacking the causes.
I just spent my lunch hour in the car listening to live radio reports from Iraq. It's worse than we thought. Fighting on a large scale from Baghdad to the Syrian border. I didn't hear all of this next bit but something like the Ukrainians pulled out from some area and al-Sadr moved in, raised flag and took over all the weapons depots. But it seems the 'coalition of the willings' worst nightmare has come to bear. The Sunnis and Shi^ites, hated enemies, are joining together to fight en masse. So Badr, Dawa, joined al-Sadr. Appears they have taken control of Kut, Najaf, Kufa, and Narbala (spelling?). About all I can remember....s
See. Look at that all you limp wristed liberal pansy Bush haters. Bush has two formerly sworn enemys talking to each other and cooperating. Is that progress, or what?
Who says the Bush administration isn't the greatest now!!!
Now that's funny!!
"I am a uniter; not a divider." - George W. "Dub-ya" Bush
Comparing Iraq to Vietnam is incorrect and irresponsible. The scale is incomparable as is the situation. We have removed the ruling Iraqi government, we did not in Vietnam. Also, we do not have the political handcuffs on that we did in Vietnam. The historical value of the campaign to democratize Iraq will not be known for another thirty years. We cannot make rash decisions based on the current issues that we are having. We have made a decision, and I will be ashamed to be part of an America that chooses to shirk this newly assumed responsiblity for lack of resolve. I'm not at all trying to compare this conflict to major conflicts in the past, but look what happened as a result of isolationism and appeasement in the past? The majority of Middle Eastern people are living in a world dominated by thousand year old beliefs, yet they are a focal point of the modern world. Something must be done, it is being done and success will irrevocably change the world for the better.
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What's this "we" whiteman! None of you here, prior to 9/11 would have had anything to do with this enterprise.
It would have been cheaper to pay Sadam to be "good" and American lives would not be lost. Now we're going to kill many Iraqis ..and a few of our own.
To many ...we will indeed turn into the "evil imperialistic-neocolonialistic infidel" that they accuse us of being.
Oh, my friend, I'm very sorry ...but the charade that you too have bought into is far more Machiavellian than you realize. Israel and Palestine (the conflict) is a show ..a charade .. a modern day "David and Goliath" for the Arab world to watch on tv and read about. Arabs (and all Muslims) share their pain ..they share thier anger. The pain is real ..the deaths are real ..it's REAL TV!! This allows corrupt Arab leaders to distract their subjugated masses. The Jew! The Jew! The evil Jew! He's the one responsible for your despair! Look what he does to your "brother"?? Meanwhile our propped up and protected Arab monarchies (the oil rich nations) drain the resources from their nations and leave the region in poverty and ingnorance. This is prefered to having the poor Arab masses realize that the infidel is truly in the fold and having a series of uprisings that will disrupt our "flow" of "our" oderly modern world.
It's a show.
[ April 08, 2004, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]
I don't believe that we will turn into the "imperialistic-neocolonialistic infidel". You may be right about not going into Iraq in the first place, but we must stand by our decision now.
We must? Aren't there any situations--hypothetically speaking--where a nation would be better off cutting its losses? Just food for thought.
Rummy said it wasn't spiralling out of control. I'd like to ask him, "What metrics are you using to determine that, and what would it take for you to say it is?"
As for the Israelis and the Palies... it's good to see that someone else recognises that the whole situation was created and is fostered by the Arab world to keep focus off of their own corrrpution and on the "brutal Jews." Yeah, the Jews arrest and even give medical attention to Palie gunmen when they are able. Palies kidnap Israelis and beat them to bloody pulp for both "revenge" and satisfaction.
Rummy said it wasn't spiralling out of control. I'd like to ask him, "What metrics are you using to determine that, and what would it take for you to say it is?"
As for the Israelis and the Palies... it's good to see that someone else recognises that the whole situation was created and is fostered by the Arab world to keep focus off of their own corrrpution and on the "brutal Jews." Yeah, the Jews arrest and even give medical attention to Palie gunmen when they are able. Palies kidnap Israelis and beat them to bloody pulp for both "revenge" and satisfaction.
The war in Iraq is about much more than Saddam. It is modern society versus brutal medieval dictatorships and their support for terrorists. Why does this concern us? Because the terrorists have announced their intention to kill all of us, and have made several down payments already.
We tried ignoring them and letting the UN handle this mess as a series of civil crimes. 9/11 put an end to that as a viable strategy. War is terrible, the alternatives are worse. This war could last decades. Even JF Kerry voted for the war before he voted against funding our troops.
Keith.
When a bomb goes off during religious gatherings the way I remeber at least one has and they are killing other Iraqi's then it IS TERRORISM.
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