New Iraqi offensive?

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I've been watching all day on TV how this cleric Al-Sadr has established some sort of a small army. They even attempted to overrun an American compound with a force of about 100 men. The news channels are making this sound as if the world is coming to an end........I happen to think this is actually good! For the longest time our troops have been attacked by "hit and run" guerrillas and it seems we never catch any of those guys. They have finally put a small army and have started to attack us in a more "conventional" way.......I believe this is good news for our guys, since now we have them in one convenient package ready to be killed. As of a few minutes ago, about 80 of those 100 trying to overrun the American compound were either killed or injured.
I think this is a decisive time in Iraq.....much more important than Saddam's fall and capture. This is our chance to purge out (aka, kill) these thugs once and for all.
I believe when all is said and done, a couple thousand of these insurgents and a few clerics will be 6 feet under paving the way for the new Iraq.

What do you guys think?
 
I'll tell you what I think. I think that country is chock full of thugs, animals, mindless religious zealots. What we did was take a minority group of these scum out of power, and created a power vaccuum where the rest of the scum can form their own brutal mini-regimes to take its place.

We never should have "liberated" this cesspool. We have more side-effects than completed goals.

U.S.-made weapons are being stolen and will be used against innocents and our allies.

Tons of money is flowing in which will doubtlessly be used by these Shiites and Kurds later for evil and destruction.

Our own contractors are trying to rob us blind at every turn.

We're losing men and women left and right.

People say now that we're in there, we need to stick it out, because if we don't we'll leave it worse off and it will bite us in the *** later. I used to feel exactly that way until recently.

But recently it's become entirely clear that Iraq is going to be no different than any other religiously-centered Arab nation. It's plain and simple: ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't. If we leave, we'll incite hatred against us. If we stay, we'll incite hatred against us, and loose lives and spend money in the process.

The Arab world hasn't had to "earn it's way in life" for the last 100 years. It simply pumps its subsitance out of the ground. The result is that a select handfull of brutal tyrants controls the economy and the country with an iron first. This is true in most every one of these countries--Kuwait is the closest thing you can find to a civilized nation out there. So what happens when we randomly pick one to "liberate?" This happens and we're worse off than before. Because these people have no education, no information outside of what the hate-mongering, violence-inspiring clerics tell them. **** , let's take out Iran next month just for fun!

We NEED NEED NEED to stop importing middle east oil and let them try to sort it out themselves--with the exception of not letting those animals overrun Israel (which is 2nd on the agenda for the Arab world after offing every westerner east of Paris).

Hey... you asked.
 
I welcome your comments and agree with you in some points. As for Arab hatred towards the US....well, that's been there for quite a while now and it ain't gonna stop no matter what we do. I think we should stay the course and put an end to this religious madness.
There have been 130 casualties in todays fighting and by what the experts are saying....it seems we have lost between 10-20 troops.
I also agree with you about Kuwait being the only country that's closed to civilized and that we have to stop or reduce oil imports from Saudi and the like.
As I said, this is it....it's "do or die" and I'm confident we'll "do" and they will "die!"
We are going to have to brace ourselves for a batch of bad news for the next month or two.

Rick
 
quote:

I think we should stay the course and put an end to this religious madness.

I would have to take issue with this statement. There is no way a western power will ever break the relgious madness in the middle east. All we can do is let the economic situation encourage them to reform themselves. We've been promoting their behavior by supporting them... propping them up. Let them wallow in their self-made dispair (screw the French). Then perhaps they'll spend more time with text books and farming implements than with AK-47's and the Koran.
 
Asinine, this may be the first time I agree with most of what you said
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One thing that has been forgotten during the past year is that a large portion of Iraqs population doesn't remember anything but Saddam and had little honest knowlegde about the outside world. Now we are educated and still can not imagine living like they do. How can we possibly expect them to adapt to a western type democracy in such short order? Or to govern themselves in a fair and just manner, since they have never known such a life. Changing a person is easy if they want to be helped, changing a society and culture is not easy, and to do it we would need ACTIVE support from a majority of the population, meaning they need to help us catch the insurgents. That just isn't happening and the Shiite clerics beginging to preach anti-American is only going to make it worse. I think bringing democracy to the Middle East is a noble cause but not a winning one.
 
Beware! The news media are puppets of the Defecrats. It is an election year folks. They are doing all they can to discredit Bush. They have nothing to offer the American public. All they can do and know how to do is tear down that which is already built. Things are going quite well in Iraq. Remeber this IS WAR. It is not a county fair set up by the armed forces gone wrong. It is a WAR. For those who are not familiar with this term, a trip to the local public library might be in order. See what happens when kids skip out on history class?
 
quote:

They are doing all they can to discredit Bush. They have nothing to offer the American public.

Webster's defines hypocracy as...

I got news for you. It is NOT going quite well. The Secretary of Defense, the commanders of the armed forces, and the CIA can't agree on most things strategy wise, we move farther from the goal of "creating a democratic Iraq" (which was the goal after "liberating Iraq" which came after "breaking one of Al Queda's allies" which came after "destroying the WMD that were an 'immediate threat' to the US") every day!

Your badmouthing another politcal party (with no supporting facts) doesn't change that fact.
 
Pablo: At the moment, Suphi has served her 6 months in country and rotated out and is now riding her horse on two weeks leave in some Thai park.
That said, she would consider whats happening as hardly the panic that is all the rage in media circles. I have another "pal" who is an ex Special Forces officer; he is overjoyed that the rats feel that they have to come out of their holes and attack. According to his back channel sources, the # of Iraqi insurgents killed are a lot higher then whats being reported.
People have to understand what the stakes are here. If it really proves impossible to create a Arab/Moslem country that works democratically as an example for the rest, we will end up having to annihilate an awful lot of people.
 
The "BATTLES ARE RAGING" headlines shrieked from all the media are minor skirmishes in any other war.

More from one of our troops about the quagmire.
A soldier assures us: Our progress is amazing
By JOE ROCHE

I'm a soldier with the U.S. Army serving in the 16th Combat Engineer Battalion in Baghdad.

The news you are hearing stateside is awfully depressing and negative. The reality is we are accomplishing a tremendous amount here, and the Iraqi people are not only benefiting greatly, but are enthusiastically supportive.

My job is mostly to be the driver of my platoon's lead Humvee. I see the missions our Army is performing, and I interact closely with the Iraqi people. Because of this, I know how successful and important our work is.

My battalion carries out dozens of missions all over the city — missions that are improving people's lives. We have restored schools and universities, hospitals, power plants and water systems. We have engineered new infrastructure projects and much more. We have also brought security and order to many of Baghdad's worst areas — areas once afflicted with chaos and brutality.

Our efforts to train vast numbers of Iraqis to police and secure the city's basic law and order are bearing fruit.

Our mission is vital. We are transforming a once very sick society into a hopeful place. Dozens of newspapers and the concepts of freedom of religious worship and expression are flowering. So, too, are educational improvements.

This is the work of the U.S. military. Our progress is amazing. Many people who knew only repression and terror now have hope in their heart and prosperity in their grasp. Every day the Iraqi people stream into the streets to cheer and wave at us as we drive by. When I'm on a foot patrol, walking among a crowd, countless people thank us — repeatedly.

I realize the shocking image of a dead soldier or a burning car is more salable than boring, detailed accounts of our rebuilding efforts. This is why you hear bad news and may be receiving an incorrect picture.

Baghdad has more than 5 million inhabitants. If these people were in an uprising against the United States, which you might think is happening, we would be overwhelmed in hours. There are weapons everywhere, and though we are working hard to gather them all, we simply can't.

Our Army is carrying out 1,700 convoys and patrols each day. Only a tiny percentage actually encounter hostile action. My unit covers some of the worst and most intense areas, and I have seen some of the most tragic attacks and hostility, such as the bombing of the United Nations headquarters.

I'm not out of touch with the negative side of things. In fact, I think my unit has it harder than many other Army units in this whole operation. That said, despite some attacks, the overall picture is one of extreme success and much thanks.

The various terrorist enemies we are facing in Iraq are really aiming at you back in the United States. This is a test of will for our country. We soldiers of yours are doing great and scoring victories in confronting the evil terrorists.

The reality is one of an ever-increasing defeat of the enemies we face. Our enemies are therefore more desperate. They are striking out more viciously and indiscriminately. I realize this is causing Americans stress, and I assure you it causes us stress, too.

When I was a civilian, I spent time as a volunteer with the Israeli army. I assure you we are not facing the hostility Israelis face. Here in Iraq, we Americans are welcomed by most Iraqis.

I'm not trying to sound like a big tough guy. I'm scared every day, and pray before every mission for our safety and success. This is a combat zone. We are in the heart of the world's leading terrorist-birthing society. I remember well how families of suicide bombers who attacked in Israel received tens of thousands of dollars from Saddam Hussein for their kin's horrendous crimes. A generation of Iraqis was growing up in a Stalinist worship of such terrorism.

They are no longer.

Instead, Iraqis today are embracing freedom and the birth of democracy. With this comes hope for the future.

Yes, there are terrorists who wish to strike these things down, but this is a test of will we must win. We can do this, as long as Americans at home keep faith with the soldiers in this war. We are Americans, after all. We can and must win this test. That is all it is.

Roche serves with the U.S. Army's 16th Combat Engineer Battalion in Iraq and is an adjunct fellow at the National Center for Public Policy Research, a conservative think-tank.

This article is: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/editorial/outlook/2487509
 
I agree somewhat with Asinine.

Sadam was there for a reason. Keep in mind he was elected (and immediately executed all of his opposition ...nice chap).

Iraq is a creation of the Brits. They hacked up three different peoples and forced them to live under one banner. Remove the Brits and what do you have? Chaos.

It took a ruthless brute like Sadam to rule this unruly crowd.

This is not going to be easy ..but we're in too deep at this point. Not that I'm saying that leaving Sadam in power would have been a good idea either ..but you're trading old problems for new and different ones.
 
Originally posted by Eric:
[QB] The "BATTLES ARE RAGING" headlines shrieked from all the media are minor skirmishes in any other war.
More from one of our troops about the quagmire.
A soldier assures us: Our progress is amazing
By JOE ROCHE
I'm a soldier with the U.S. Army serving in the 16th Combat Engineer Battalion in Baghdad.

The news you are hearing stateside is awfully depressing and negative. The reality is we are accomplishing a tremendous amount here, and the Iraqi people are not only benefiting greatly, but are enthusiastically supportive.

Roche serves with the U.S. Army's 16th Combat Engineer Battalion in Iraq and is an adjunct fellow at the National Center for Public Policy Research, a conservative think-tank.
National Center for Public Policy Research

For those that want more info on Joe Roche and the NCPPR see below.

National Center for Public Policy Research

The National Center for Public Policy Research (NCPPR) was formed in the 1980s to support the Reagan administration's military adventures in Central America. It now calls itself a "communications and research foundation dedicated to providing free market solutions to today's public policy problems."

Personnel

John Carlisle
Tom Randall
Amy Moritz Ridenour, president, is described in a 1995 memo by the Philip Morris tobacco company as "a willing ally." The memo, by PM employee Francis Gomez states that she had just called his office "offering to use any information we can provide [regarding] the current anti-tobacco onslaught. . . . Tom Borelli and I have both been in touch with Amy on various issues and are awaiting proposals for use of an internet website as an accessible repository of PM-related information."
David Almasi, director of Project 21

Funders
Philip Morris [1]
Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, Inc.
Carthage Foundation
Castle Rock Foundation
Earhart Foundation
John M. Olin Foundation, Inc.
Sarah Scaife Foundation

History

In 1997, NCPPR opposed action on global warming at an international summit in Kyoto, Japan. It established the Kyoto Earth Summit Information Center, issued an "Earth Summit Fact Sheet" and fed anti-treaty quotes to the media through a "free interview locator service" that offered "assistance to journalists seeking interviews with leading scientists, economists and public policy experts on global warming."

Following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, NCPPR began using the rhetoric of anti-terrorism to attack environmentalists. In May 2002, it created the envirotruth.org web site, to attack what it called the "jihad" that environmental activists are waging against corporations.
 
You will also notice, Needtoknow, I was quite open and honest about the source and does not mean he is wrong.

Here is a blog written by an experienced fellow who prizes his privacy, but writes well on Iraq, et al:
http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/
 
This guy is an Iraqi and is posting from there. Make sure you read the last line.

From Zeyad at Healing Iraq blog:
More on Sadr's insurgency

Sadr's aide and head of his office in Najaf, Qays Al-Khaz'ali, has declared the latest looting and killing spree going on in several Iraqi southern cities as an Intifada against the occupation. Speaking on behalf of Muqtada, he stated that they will certainly not calm down any soon because the Quran orders them not to; "Fight those who fight against you". And he has also made it clear that they stand united with their 'Sunni brothers' in Ramadi, Fallujah, and Adhamiya in the resistance.

Muqtada himself though doesn't seem as if he has made up his mind yet. I believe the fool senses that he has blundered seriously. Earlier yesterday he issued an announcement to his followers to cease the 'demonstrations', and that he had left the Kufa mosque and took refuge at Imam Ali's shrine in Najaf, typically hiding among civilians and holy sites like the coward he is. Later, however, he issued another written statement in which he reiterated his pledge to Hassan Fadhlallah, Hizbollah leader, adding to it that he will be the 'striking hand' for Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani. One of his aides claimed that a delegation from Sistani met with Sadr informing him that the leading Shi'ite cleric supports Sadr and his followers and that their cause is legitimate. This contradicts ****stani's statements yesterday, indicating that the old wizard is either suffering from senility or is playing his own dirty tricks. None of Sistani's agents have either denied or confirmed this claim, but they say that he will personally meet with Sadr tomorrow.

Meanwhile, violent clashes continue in Nassiriya and Ammara between Al-Mahdi militiamen and coalition troops. There were reports that the militia had kidnapped two South Korean construction workers in Nassiriya. At Kut it was reported that IP and Ukrainian forces regained control of the local tv and radio station after it had been overrun by Sadr's henchmen, but that fighting resumed later in the evening. Also, reports of fighting at Diwaniyah, which had been the only major city in the south unaffected by the recent developments up until yesterday.

Of course, Sadr has set up offices in almost every city, town, and village in the south. And I have mentioned earlier that they had assumed full control over my small village where I work in the Basrah governorate weeks ago, terrorizing IP officers, civil servants, and doctors but nobody was listening. I don't think I will be heading back there any soon now. What surprises me is the almost professional coordination of the uprisings in all of these areas. I'm assuming, of course, that the money and equipment supplied by our dear Mullahs in Iran is being put to use good enough, not to mention the hundreds of Pasderan and Iranian intelligence officers.. sorry I mean Iranian Shia pilgrims that have been pouring into Iraq for months now.

The situation in Baghdad looks the same as it was in the couple of days before the war last year. Streets are almost empty by seven in the evening, a whole lot of Baghdadis have remained home yesterday for fear of getting cut off from their neighbourhoods in event of Americans blocking off streets or something. There was an ongoing military operation very close to our neighbourhood almost all of Monday night till midday. At one point I imagined that the Apaches were landing on our roof (that was after I published the previous post), and explosions kept rocking our house which brought back uncanny memories of last April 10th when there was a fierce confrontation between Fedayeen and advancing Americans just outside our doorsteps.

I was standing outside with neighbours yesterday afternoon gossiping when a car drove by, threw a couple of fliers at us, shouting "read them, may Allah increase your reward". The fliers were signed by a group which called itself Saif Allah Albattar (Allah's striking sword) at Ramadi, Fallujah, Adhamiya, and Diyala, which advised Iraqis to remain home on April 9th (the anniversary of the occupation), stating that they would not be responsible if anyone failed to do so. Someone else talked about another group called the Iraqi Islamic Army (groups like these seem to pop up every other day) which claimed its responsibility for the killings of the 4 Americans in Fallujah last week, decribing them as 'Jews'.

Anyway, it seems that fighting is ongoing in Sadr city, northeast of Baghdad. A total of 110 Iraqis and 19 coalition soldiers killed in the last 12 hours according to Al-Jazeera, which I have never witnessed being any more hateful and provocative until this day. They keep displaying headlines like 'Occupation forces target more women and children in Sadr city' or 'Resistance in Fallujah forces occupation forces to withdraw from locations'.

A couple of GC members have shyly spoken against the violence. Ayad Allawi (INA) first described the uprisings as being directed by 'evil and dark forces who wish no prosperity for Iraqis', then he started beseeching his 'brother' Muqtada Al-Sadr to stay calm (Even he is scared from Sadr's thugs?). SCIRI leader, Abdul Aziz Al-Hakim condemned the behaviour of occupation forces in killing civilians in Najaf and called for their punishment. The Iraqi Ministry of Justice stated that they had absolutely nothing to do with the arrest warrant for Muqtada Al-Sadr. And you want us to keep hope?

No one knows where it is all heading. If this uprising is not crushed immediately and those
militia not captured then there is no hope at all. If you even consider negotiations or appeasement, then we are all doomed.

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/
 
quote:

Originally posted by Eric:
A couple of GC members have shyly spoken against the violence. Ayad Allawi (INA) first described the uprisings as being directed by 'evil and dark forces who wish no prosperity for Iraqis', then he started beseeching his 'brother' Muqtada Al-Sadr to stay calm (Even he is scared from Sadr's thugs?). SCIRI leader, Abdul Aziz Al-Hakim condemned the behaviour of occupation forces in killing civilians in Najaf and called for their punishment. The Iraqi Ministry of Justice stated that they had absolutely nothing to do with the arrest warrant for Muqtada Al-Sadr. And you want us to keep hope?

No one knows where it is all heading. If this uprising is not crushed immediately and those
militia not captured then there is no hope at all. If you even consider negotiations or appeasement, then we are all doomed.

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/


Ultimately the Iraqui people are going to have to roll up their sleeves and get blodied if the wish to break their long standing habit if living like a bunch of sheep controlled with the despots of the world. They may yet again choose this course. If they do so be it.
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And if they do I don't want to hear their whining about it. If a couple hundred thousand control the destiny of 18 million-its their problem.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Asinine:

quote:

I think we should stay the course and put an end to this religious madness.

I would have to take issue with this statement. There is no way a western power will ever break the relgious madness in the middle east. All we can do is let the economic situation encourage them to reform themselves. We've been promoting their behavior by supporting them... propping them up. Let them wallow in their self-made dispair (screw the French). Then perhaps they'll spend more time with text books and farming implements than with AK-47's and the Koran.


Hear! Hear!
patriot.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by Al:
And if they do I don't want to hear their whining about it. If a couple hundred thousand control the destiny of 18 million-its their problem.

It was their problem before Bush invaded Iraq. Now it's our problem too.

Maybe Bush can be delivered to an aircraft carrier like a sack of mail again so he can once again declare victory.
 
I was a supporter of the assault on Iraq based on what the Administration told us and the Teddy Roosevelt style "best defense is an overwhelming offense" in the post Soviet World. That was Genius as an idea, excecution is the weak area. The fight is not over and we must not cut and run as a Nation.

I am less than enamored with the post War planning and execution of this current Administration.

I will say this, now that we are there deeply committed WE all, regardless of political persuasion MUST see this through, we can't lose or all **** will break loose , in the Mideast first , the World next.

Our troops need to crush/kill the thugs and continue their missions with support of every one of peace loving folks in the World not just the US.


I agree with the Spec Ops take, as the moles lift their heads from the mosques we are able to ID and cut them off.

Energy issues:

A REAL US energy policy and ejecting the retard in Venezuela out of office would be a good start.

Saudi's are using the current US high Demand(our short hairs) as a warning shot at thinking seriously about a REAL energy plan from the US, not to mention a possible permanent resetting of oil price levels in recent years.

I'm afraid Bush will capitulate on that issue.

[ April 07, 2004, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]
 
quote:

I will say this, now that we are there deeply committed WE all, regardless of political persuasion MUST see this through, we can't lose or all **** will break loose , in the Mideast first , the World next.

YES! Whether it was wrong or right, we MUST win this and stabilze this country and NOT pull out for any reason at all. It's crucial for the future of that region and world. Very good point.
 
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