New Honda Civic. What synthentic oil + changes?

[Freezebyte]

Hello all, names Freeze, from the 8thcivic.com forums and im here for some incite into oil and changing it. I purchased a new 08 EX-L Civic coupe last month and I love it dearly and wanna protect the engine the best I can. Ive searched and read several threads in my civic community about the whole debate on oil for our Civics. The advice ranges from following the Honda MM *maintenance minder* to the letter, vs staying to the tested and tried ever 3,000 miles.

Every situation and driving style is different for every owner, so let me present my driving habits and environment.

I live in Montana, which always has variable weather that changes every 5 minutes or so. One hour it can be 30 degrees, blowing wind and cold rain, the next hour it could jump to 60 degrees with sunshine and no wind. The winters here get very cold and harsh, with variable temperatures ranging from -20 to 40 degree's that changes constantly, with snowfall, ice, hail, fog and everything in between.

Summer and springs consist of random rainstorms with summer becoming very hot at times 80-100 degrees with little humidity until fall sets and and cycle repeats itself

Now, with my current driving style, this car is my buzz around town car and is not even used to get to work, my company van is for that. So there are times when I drive no more then a block away to the grocery store on a cold engine and drive for no less then a minute, park, do my thing and then head back home. Other times, im taking the 45mph sections to the other side of town which can result in alot of stop, crawl and go driving. At night I have more smoother and constant driving with less traffic. I drive from anwhere from 2 to 20 miles a day. My rough yearly average is less then 5,000 miles a year.

Our traffic in my town consists alot of stop and go, small side streets and a few sections of 45mph 4way roads around 5 miles long. There is also a decent amount of hilly roads that are around a 10% grade.

I also take side streets which average 20-30 mph and do require a fair amount of intersection stopping and going *I usually roll through stop signs, I hate full stops*

I only use highways maybe 2% of the time of my total driving, so the car is hardly ever at 50mph+ speeds.

The dealership I bought my Honda from out of town recommends due to our weather and road every 3,000 miles for maximum protection, irregardless of what the MM says, stating that it only measures the dirtyness of the oil, not the moisture, thickness ect..ect.. and is therefore not very accurate The first oil change should be done at around 4,000 to let the break in oil work.

I got off the phone with my local Honda dealership and they say that the MM is fairly accurate with the average driving in my town, can go around 4,000 miles or more depending on highway use which can extend the life of the oil. First oil change should be 4-5000 miles to allow break in oil to work.

I WILL not be doing my own oil changes as I:

A: Do not have the tools
B: Do not have the patience/skills/nerves/comfort
C: Hate getting oily and dirty
D: Apartment landlords forbid vehicle maintenance on lot

That being said, I want MAXIMUM protection for my engine and the best care I can give her but without going into debt just paying for oil. Im pretty deep in the hole after trading in my Accord for my baby, so I will have this car at least 3 years.

I"ve also been researching alot into the synthetic oil and decided that I will switch to syn when its time. I am confused however on this whole Mobil 1 deal in regards to their synthetic not really being a Class 4 synthetic. Apparently there was some kinda lawsuit in regards to that and I hear half the people saying that the basic Mobil 1 5-20w is truly synthetic while the other half says no, its not and I have to purchase the Extended Protection line to get "real" synthetic. Which is it?

Also, alot of my fellow Honda Civic owners apparently think Aimsoil and Royal Purple is the best stuff with info to back it up. I do not have that available in my area nor do I wish to pay to have that stuff shipped, I wanna be able to find it at my local Wal-Mart in 5qrt size.

I also would like to know if it would be worthwhile to switch to Mobil 1 economy synthetic line of oil with 0-5w for better protection when the engine is cold, especially since I do a fair amount of short trips on a cold engine. Anyone have incite on this brand?

The guy at 8thcivic recommended this place several times over for good, reliable information so I hope I can get some real truthful answers. Thanks!

 

[cyclic]

I think you are overthinking it man. I know you want to do what is right for your new car but oil is just a lubricant. In a Honda engine you can put whatever 5w20 you want in it and run it until the MM or until you feel what is right for the engine. Spending a lot of dough on fancy synthetics are not going to impact your ownership whatsoever, the engine will out last the car. If you are going to run the MM then I would go with Penzoil or CAstrol GTX , dino in these engines have returned great results on UOA's. Plus you can cut your maintenance cost down.
I run whatever 5w20 is on sale in my 07 Accord, sometimes that is Synthetic. I did my first oil change at 5500kms. After that I ran whatever the MM said to change it. For me that is 8-10k kms or somewhere in there
Enjoy your new Civic it's Gorgeous and Honda's are fun to own.

 

[FZ1]

Nice car. Let the dealer do the oil changes to document warranty compliance. 5k with dealer fill is fine. Leave the break in oil in for 5k.

 

[Bill in Utah]

If you care for the car, more important than oil is just walk for those trips that are a block.

That use will kill the car with ANY oil.

Any oil will be fine following the OLM. I'd recommend Pennzoil 5w-20 conventional, GTX or Havoline DS 5w-20 in your Civic (all ran excellent in my Dad's civic and its got about 130k on it now)

But the short (block) trips are NOT good. My wife drives our known to be VERY easy Subaru for 1 mile trips and the UOA came back poor.

I wish it had a OLM...

Quote:
The guy at 8thcivic recommended this place several times over for good, reliable information so I hope I can get some real truthful answers.


We used to have better answers based in facts years ago.

Today?

Take care and

 

[Lyondellic]

I own a 2007 Civic LX that was bought new last May. At 1,500 miles I converted to Amsoil 0W-20 and performed a second oil change at 3,500 miles to flush out any wear metals from the break-in process. What I did runs counter to Honda's recommendation concerning the first oil change, but I feel that wear metals are bad whether an engine is new or old.

If you are not wanting to change the oil yourself, then I would recommend using the dealership. It is a little more expensive that way, but the service center will have a record of each oil change if you should ever require warranty service. Please stay away from the quick change oil places, as you will find a lot of horror stories on this site about experiences with such places.

I would ask you to reconsider your decision to not perform your own oil changes. Changing you own oil takes less than 45 minutes and allows you to inspect your car's undercarriage. A $30 Fumoto drain valve will eliminate the need for all tools, except an oil filter wrench ($10) and a funnel ($1.50). If you prefer not to use a jack, a set of cheap ramps will only cost ~$20. The Fumoto drain valve allows you to drain oil by connecting a hose to a nipple on the end of the valve assembly, which can be routed to any container. An empty milk jug works well and allows for oil to be drained with absolutely no mess.

There are even devices that allow you to vacuum the oil from the fill hole without having to remove the drain plug at all. These vacuum pumps are only ~$50 if my recollection is correct.

Removing the oil filter can be a little messy, but I have found that slipping a Ziploc bag over the filter prior to removal prevents any spillage. Some folks have purchased and installed remote oil filter kits so that they can remove and replace their oil filter by simply opening the hood.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Reading your post closer a few things;

Quote:
I live in Montana


My sister lives in Columbia Falls.. About as north as you get.

Her 1993 Caravan has 193k on it, 5-6k OCI with mostly 5w-30 Pennzoil. Runs great.

Her 2003 Taurus has around 90k on it, same OCI with mostly GTX or Pennzoil 5w-20. Same running great.

Quote:
irregardless of what the MM says, stating that it only measures the dirtyness of the oil, not the moisture, thickness ect..ect..


Your dealer needs to KNOW what the OLM (or MM) DOES do. It does not measure anything to do with the oil. It is based on your driving style (how long, what temps, how high the RPM, what outside temps) it does NOTHING with the oil.

Quote:
The first oil change should be done at around 4,000 to let the break in oil work.


We have done UOAs on the factory fill. There is NO "break in oil". People have changed out their Hondas well before 4000 miles (I've done 3 of them myself) with NO problems.

Quote:
so I will have this car at least 3 years.


Ok, so if it was me. I'd go get the oil changed when the MM goes off at the dealership. PERIOD. 3 years is no problem with this car.

Quote:
I"ve also been researching alot into the synthetic oil and decided that I will switch to syn when its time. I am confused however on this whole Mobil 1 deal in regards to their synthetic not really being a Class 4 synthetic. Apparently there was some kinda lawsuit in regards to that and I hear half the people saying that the basic Mobil 1 5-20w is truly synthetic while the other half says no, its not and I have to purchase the Extended Protection line to get "real" synthetic. Which is it?


In your case, forget all of this [censored] and just go to the dealership. Mobil 1 has been known to change what they make their oils many times and will not disclose what is in there. I've used Mobil 1 and found it to be one of the worst performing Syns in the engines I've used and done UOAs with.

If you want to use a syn, I'd recommend Pennzoil Platinum but that is a waste of $$ in your engine and use. With your use, CHANGING the oil is more important than what type you use due to the water and byproducts in the crankcase.

Quote:
Mobil 1 economy synthetic line of oil


No such thing. Anything with the name Mobil 1 is expensive.

Quote:
lso, alot of my fellow Honda Civic owners apparently think Aimsoil and Royal Purple is the best stuff with info to back it up.
Not needed. The correct name is Amsoil and their oils are good, but cost. Their XL oil is really good and we have some excellent site sponsers who can get it to you but again, not needed. Esp if your only going to keep the car 3 years and need to follow the warranty requirements.

Enjoy the new ride!

Bill

 

[glennc]

I would run a conventional oil and change it at the recommended intervals. There is no way you will get any return from paying more for oil or from changing it more frequently, since you say you will be keeping this car "at least three years." The engine will not notice the difference over even 150k+ miles, and conventionals are EXCELLENT oils these days. Synthetics are really good for one primary reason, and that is extending oil change intervals. With your short-trip, low-speed use, I doubt many people here would recommend that, especially while under warranty.

 

[Audi Junkie]

I sense a contradiction between your interest in the subject of lubrication and dismissing the task of doing it yourself. A good medium might be owning and using an oil extractor tool. The manual service allows the small filter to be left in place and draining the oil. Well, the extractor drains the oil from above, thru the dipstick. It does it without putting a knee on the ground or getting dirty, sucks it right into a jug. I know people who drive to WalMart, go in and buy oil then come out and use their extractor in the parking lot and go back and dispose the oil right there at the store.

Mobil 1 0w-20 and 0w-30 are available there as well as conventionals. It's a good place to get oil changes done, you can ask for any oil and get it. Maybe this suits you. Just ask for the M1 and come back and DIY it after 5k and you are good. I actually like timed intervals better, 3-4-6 months, but that is another story. WalMart actually has good filters too, like Fram Tough Guard.

 

[Fester]

I have an 05 Civic coup runs Pennzoil platinum with 6 month OCI's,
they only take 3.5 qt's, I do it myself because synthetic at the dealer is $45 for syntec, for 3.5 qt's its a ripoff.

In your case go with the cheap stuff (per the MM) at the dealer, they do give coupons, may cost you around $21.

Hows the Mileage, mine gets 37 mpg city mix driving, at first it only would get 25 mpg till the motor loosened up.

Love that new style

 

[mechtech2]

For a projected life of 3-5 years, any 5-20 will do. [and probably many more years].
In your case, I'd go with your dealer recommendations and just let them handle it. Maybe a bit on the safe side, and maybe a few more dollars, but so what? Also, they know your car, and may find other things that need attention and also service bulletins/repairs while you are in there.

 

[FZ1]

Agree, I always take my Honda to the dealer for the required annual state inspection. They do a very good job 'cause they are lookin' for things to fix. It's just good business and cheap insurance to let the dealer to all the work particulary while under warranty.

 

[RTexasF]

I'm with the majority here. Change the factory oil by 5K, use the specified grade & filter, and use the mileage minder. Change when it is reading around 15%. A synthetic is just not worth it for you. If you are die hard "I'm gonna use synthetic period!" then Penzoil Platinum would be my choice.

 

[Freezebyte]

Huh, very weird. All the talk on the civic boards suggest that synthetics are just simply better all around. People state engines running smoother and quieter as a result of synthetic vs conventional, not to mention running cleaner with less sludge and wear. I'm getting alot of confused messages here.

I'm sorry, but I don't feel like doing my own oil. I get payed well, i'll pay to have someone do it for me, honda dealership of course, no Jiffy Lube or the likes.

And yes, the economy gas saving Mobil 1 oil exists, its this.

Mobil 1 Fuel Economy Oil

 

[bustednutz]

The mind is a wonderful thing......you can convince yourself of anything if you really want to. Such is the "placebo" effect between synthetic and conventional.
OK, when I was 17 I had a 1985 Civic "S" hatch. Totally killer car back in the day.
I ran that car on brutal trips from NY, through Canada to Michigan to get to college. It had the 1.5L 12 valve engine, carburated.
The car was probably the most reliable car I ever had. Know what oil I ran it that car in 1989? 10w40 conventional cheap stuff.
I ran it well over 100K and there was never any sludge, varnish or anything in the motor. Know how often I changed that oil when I was 18 years old? Not much. It was lucky to see 2 oil changes a year. And I racked up lots and lots of harsh miles with it.
So, the nature of the Honda product is to be of excellent quality. Alot of technology has changed in 20+ years (man I just felt old typing that), tech for the better.
Run a favorite 5w20 conventional and sleep soundly at night.
BTW, that Honda never burned a single drop of oil either.
I miss that darn car.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Freezebyte
Huh, very weird. All the talk on the civic boards suggest that synthetics are just simply better all around. People state engines running smoother and quieter as a result of synthetic vs conventional, not to mention running cleaner with less sludge and wear. I'm getting alot of confused messages here.

I'm sorry, but I don't feel like doing my own oil. I get payed well, i'll pay to have someone do it for me, honda dealership of course, no Jiffy Lube or the likes.

And yes, the economy gas saving Mobil 1 oil exists, its this.

Mobil 1 Fuel Economy Oil



Email Mobil and ask them for the paperwork that if you do not save 2% fuel with their "fuel saving oil"

then you get your $$ back.

Let me know what they say.

Lower weights oil save fuel, I've gotten the same MPG using conventioal vs Syn (different brands too!). Bump up the weight and the MPG will be different.

Marketing is a wonderful thing..

All the talkers on the Civic boards tear their engines apart and show the photos of the wear in a conventional engine. Then show you their no wear syn engines?

Have you seen the sludge in a civic engine that has had proper oil changes using ANY oil and the sludge?

When people pay 2,3 4 or more times for an oil, they think it makes a difference so they feel it. Some times if they went from xx brand of conventional to another they would feel the same things.. Most of it is in their heads IMO.

Also at your Honda dealership the same type of folks change the oil as at a iffy lube. (most of the time its not a $80 and up "tech") Your dealerships comments about break in oil and how the MM works shows me a salesperson or service writer (most don't know tech very well).

Spend the $$ if you want to. Help the oil companies. They need more $$. Help the economy! You get payed well.

In 3 years there will be no difference.

Take care,bill

 

[Fester]

Sounds perfectly clear to me, in fact theres more agreement here that I ever seen on the matter.

If money is no object, then buy some Amsoil, take it to the dealer and have them change it every 3k miles. But you will gain nothing over conventional at 3k oci's.

As far as the M1 fuel economy oil, will it save that much, maybe worth it if you keep in for say 10k miles oci's.

 

[06VtecV6]

The advice ranges from following the Honda MM *maintenance minder* to the letter, vs staying to the tested and tried ever 3,000 miles.

Follow the MMS *and* stick with it and forget the 3000 miles stuff

Every situation and driving style is different for every owner, so let me present my driving habits and environment.

Use a synthetic blend like Motorcraft 5w-20 from WM

I got off the phone with my local Honda dealership and they say that the MM is fairly accurate. First oil change should be 4-5000 miles to allow break in oil to work.

The MMS is good. It is around -5k for me with the MMS system.

I WILL not be doing my own oil changes as I:

A: Do not have the tools
B: Do not have the patience/skills/nerves/comfort
C: Hate getting oily and dirty
D: Apartment landlords forbid vehicle maintenance on lot

I used to be just like you. I still do not have the tools but I found out I don't need a LOT of tools except a 'monkey' wrench that is 17mm. If you learn anything from THIS site, it is that you should try to change your own oil if the filter is located in a decent place. You are the owner of the car and not the lube places. Is you filter located under the front of the car somewhere?

That being said, I want MAXIMUM protection for my engine and the best care I can give her but without going into debt
I"ve also been researching alot into the synthetic oil and decided that I will switch to syn when its time.

use a good synthetic blend and you should be good. I would recommend Motorcraft 5w-20

Also, alot of my fellow Honda Civic owners apparently think Aimsoil and Royal Purple is the best stuff

False. Based on UOAs here, you would be throwing your money away using these boutique oils

I also would like to know if it would be worthwhile to switch to Mobil 1 economy synthetic line of oil with 0-5w

I waited until 21,500 miles to introduce synthetic oil in my car and then I only used synthetic blend first to ease the transition.

 

[ThirdeYe]

My car's used dealership conventional for the first 13x,000 miles of its life. Six month/5000 mile intervals. That was since new, back in 1994, with yesterday's oils. When I pull my valve cover off, there is no sludge or varnish. It's very clean, and doesn't burn a drop of oil. It's only seen synthetic once in its life (a 4,500 mile run of Amsoil during this winter) and went back to using conventional. The gap between syns and conventionals these days is really narrowing. The only time you'll probably see synthetic outperform conventional is for extended drains, or temperature extremes (cold, hot). I know the climate here in Michigan can be crazy as well, with the huge random temperature swings, but conventional still holds up fine here.. Oh, and also, I've noticed no difference in smoothness, etc. between synthetic and conventional in my car. Valvoline, Havoline, Amsoil, it all felt the exact same. And I'm very picky when it comes to noises, maintenance and performance in my car.

 

[BarkerMan]

If you traveled to every dealership in the state and gave every service writer a cookie that had in depth knowledge of his products and understood maintenance and fluids used my motor vehicles and understood the concept of diagnosis before guessing you'd need at least a dozen cookies. And if you gave a cookie to every manufacturer that used break-in oil you would not need any cookies at all. Go to a dealership and look at all the people that work there and realize that the work that you don't need to have done supports those people. And you can be sure that the guy that changes your oil has got to hurry because the cars in the showroom need to be wiped down again and the trash cans need to be emptied. It's just the nature of the business. They have to turn a lot of customers every day, day after day after day. Don't worry. There are new customers every day. And they have local knowledge. They know that your car needs an oil change every 3k miles and you need that 15k service because we will do a 37 point safety inspection and tighten your nuts. You would not like to drive down the road with loose nuts, now would you?

 

[Durango]

If your Honda is going to be a long term car then by all means go ahead and do the switch. If you can I'd just get the M1 ald leave it at that. Factory oil from Honda is supplied by Mobil/Exxon anyway so as I 've heard/read it.

Regardless of wether it's a true synthetic or not I currently use M1 in my 89' Camry and 01' Durango with good results. Both are still going strong and I have no intention of swithcing to any other for the Camry. It likes M1 5W-30 in both car/truck.

Durango