New Cummins on the way, a few questions

[Lightman]

I've recently ordered a 04 Dodge Ram 2500 with a Cummins HO. I want to hear people's opinions on these questions.

1. Cummins says wait 5-20k until the engine is fully broken in before switching to synthetic. What do ppl think about this?

2. If I decide to run dino out to 10 or 15k, which one to use? Delvac 1300, Rotella, Delo? I want one thats commonly locally available if I'm going to use dino.

3. Once I switch to synthetic, I have a dilemma. I have been using delvac 1 in both of my current diesels, and feel its one of the best oils out there. However, the Cummins takes 12 quarts, and that can get pricey. I'm in FL now but will be moving to OH in a year. I was thinking maybe I would run the slightly cheaper Amsoil 15w-40 HDD/Marine oil until I moved up, then switch to D1. My question is does anyone think it would be a bad idea to switch to the d1 after using the amsoil for 6-8 months? I always used to hear ppl say stick with the same oil. If thats the case maybe I'll suck it up and use d1 from the start of synthetic use.. Thanks in advance guys,
Dave

 

[Rebel Rouser]

Yes, Cummins has historically recommended a 20K break-in period on this series engine before using synthetic oil. I would only guess the break-in period may take longer if using a synthetic from day one.

I'd probably use Delo 400, but I'm sure any of those dinos would be fine. Rotella seems to be the most popular with the Dodge/Cummins owners.

If you factor in "club fees", shipping costs, and a wide range of retail pricing on Amsoil products, it's probably a wash between the AME 15-40 and Delvac 1 5-40. They're both pricey oils. If looking for speciality type oils like these, I'd consider using Schaeffer's 15-40 synthetic blend diesel oil, which costs less than either of these two, and provides excellant performance.

Good luck, and you'll enjoy that Cummins!

 

[Lightman]

thanks for your thoughts rebel. However the price of ams HDD is a lot lower than D1. With shipping etc D1 can be had for $24-$25 gal. The ams can be had for $17-18. There are plenty of websites that sell amsoil at 'preferred' dealer prices so you dont have to bother with any membership MLM b.s.

I guess I'm hoping for a bit more techincal of an answer, and more direct answers to my questions. Why one oil over the other with the oils I listed, and what about switching from amsoil hdd to d1, etc?

 

[Drstressor]

I have a '99 Dodge Cummins that I broke in on Delo until 17K, then I switched to D1, then to Amsoil HDD. I went 3-3.4 K between changes with the Delo and 7.5 K with the synthetics. UOA was done at each change. Conclusions:

1. No significant difference in wear metals/1000 miles between any of the oils.

2. Wear metals varied as much as 3-fold depending on how the truck was driven. Long trips with towing gave the best results; long time intervals between changes (same mileage) showed the highest silicon and wear metal levels.

3. Oxidation and nitration levels were lower with the Delo than with either synthetic once Chevron went to the IsoSyn formula. That Group II+ base stock is very impressive.

4. D1 and Amsoil HDD gave very similar wear metal levels (20 - 30 ppm Fe per 7.5K).

Both oils use similar base stock and additive chemistries. I use the Amsoil product now because of the better price. Oil pressure came up faster with the D1 when the temp got below 20 degrees. Otherwise performance is about the same.

I personally feel that Cummin's recommendation against synthetic oils during break-in is bogus. Their rational is that high temperature is necessary to properly seat the rings (which is true) and that a synthetic oil runs cooler than conventional oil. A number of guys on the TDR board have switched to synthetic much earlier than 10K miles without oil consumption problems.

You will need to run your engine under load for a proper break-in. The engine is designed for GVW's of up to 15 tons, so driving around in an unloaded 6-7,000 lb pickup doesn't get the cylinder temperature and pressure up to design specs. Dodges run in gently tend to use oil. Tow something or at least find some hills after the first couple of hundred miles. And don't sweat the type of oil you use. These engines are extremely well built and are not stressed in a pickup application. Just about any CI-4 oil will be fine.

 

[Ken2]

Lightman,

Why run synthetic? For cold Ohio winters?...OK. For longer drain intervals...OK. For reduced engine wear...ya gotta show me.

I'd use Schaeffer's #700 15W-40 synthetic blend in both Florida and Ohio. The cold cranking spec would make this oil closer to an 8W-40, if they had such a thing, which they don't. I do think that Schaeffer's superior additive package will result in lower wear--and the price is right.

After the break-in and first couple of oil changes, you can just pull an oil sample at the recommended drain interval and not change the oil until the lab tells you to do so. If not Schaeffer's, then Chevron, Pennz, or Mobil 15W-40 or Mobil Delvac 1. Nothing wrong with Amsoil 15W-40 if the price is right. With all these synthetics, no need to change the oil until the lab says to. The good analysis at the recommended drain interval will protect your warranty.


Ken

 

[Starbreaker666]

These Cummins are filled with Valvoline Premium Blue 15w-40 why change?

 

[Ken2]

Valvoline Premium Blue seems to be an notch above the average HDMO. It's not easy to find in some regions. Blue's list of approvals are the same as Delo400's with the exception of the Mack spec. Delo meets Mack OE-M Plus, and Blue is Mack OE-N Premium Plus, a newer, tougher spec. (And, maybe Chevron has upgraded Delo and not updated the 'net info.)


Ken

 

[mrchecker]

I agree with Drstressor- the 5.9 Cummins is so underworked in a pickup that any decent oil with a reasonable OCI will make the engine outlast the truck. I bought mine with 208k on it, and who knows what was used and how often it was changed. It had a Fram on it when I bought it. It used 1 quart on the 1700 mile drive home from Texas, running at 70 - 75 mph. I've got 3k of mostly local driving on the current oil (Delvac 1300 Super) and not had to add any. I wouldn't bother with synth in a Cummins powered pickup unless I lived in an area where the temps were subzero regularly in winter and/or I intended to run the truck past 400k miles. They last 200k in medium duty trucks with any old oil changed whenever someone gets around to it so I can't see spending the money on synthetics for one in a pickup.

 

[Lightman]

While I appreciate the thoughts guys, I'd like to get back toward my original questions. The switch to synthetic is not up for debate. I'm going to run delvac 1 once I move up to Ohio, probably for 10k intervals. I was curious about the waiting period for switching to synthetic. I was thinking I'd use delvac 1300 super. Curious how the other oils stacked up against it. Not going to use shaeffers anything, it has to be locally readily available in a store. The Amsoil 15w-40 works out to be about $18 bux a gallon after shipping, and d1 is about $25. While I'm in FL, I figure I'd run the slightly cheaper Amsoil. My question was the difference in additive packages, and whether or not the eventual switch would cause any problems. In that case I'd just switch to D1 at the switchover to syn.

 

[Drstressor]

Delo 400 and Delvac 1300 have the best specs of the over the counter HDD oils and are both highly regarded. But it doesn't matter which one you choose (or Pennzoil, Rotella, Castrol, Valvoline PB, etc). There is too much obsessing about oil brands, especially when considering heavy duty oils. They are all very similar and completely compatable. The only significant difference is how long they hold up and that doesn't seem to be an issue for you.

 

[Lightman]

Thanks for the replies. I think I'll do d1300 at 5k intervals till I switch to ams at 15k and then D1 when I move up north. I think introducing a load after 1000 miles or so is a good idea, I've thought of renting a car trailer and hauling my other car around for a few hours to put some kind of load on it. Don't have access to any heavy trailers etc..

 

[Kirk]

Lightman,
I have a 03 HO 6spd. I went to Schaeffer's 15W40
at 7,500 mi. I just did first analysis 11,000 on the truck. It came back verry nice. This is my 2nd
Cummins and I have used a lot of brands of oil over the years, Shaeffer's is the shiznit.

 

[Propflux01]

My question is why are you so bent on the price of Amsoil Vs D-1? You indicated that you were going to change to D-1 anyhow, so why even bother with the Amsoil in the first place? Your D-1 should be available alot easier than the Amsoil ( almost every 'Flying J' has some, and they are frequent). if I were doing waht you describe, i would either go with 1300, or Rotella, then go directly to your D-1 and change at 10K intervals. Most Deisels will go 10K easily on these type oils, I am willing to bet if you do a UOA on a 10k sample you will find you can probably go longer without problems...

[ September 27, 2003, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Tim H. ]

 

[Ken2]

I just picked up a copy of an oil analysis of a Dodge Cummins truck with 200,000 miles and 34,000 miles on Schaeffer synthetic blend. They told him to keep running that oil and resample at 36,000 miles.

Don't exceed the oil drain interval in your owner's manual without an analysis...gott'a protect that warranty.


Ken

 

[Mykro]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lightman:
I've recently ordered a 04 Dodge Ram 2500 with a Cummins HO. I want to hear people's opinions on these questions.

1. Cummins says wait 5-20k until the engine is fully broken in before switching to synthetic. What do ppl think about this?

2. If I decide to run dino out to 10 or 15k, which one to use? Delvac 1300, Rotella, Delo? I want one thats commonly locally available if I'm going to use dino.

3. Once I switch to synthetic, I have a dilemma. I have been using delvac 1 in both of my current diesels, and feel its one of the best oils out there. However, the Cummins takes 12 quarts, and that can get pricey. I'm in FL now but will be moving to OH in a year. I was thinking maybe I would run the slightly cheaper Amsoil 15w-40 HDD/Marine oil until I moved up, then switch to D1. My question is does anyone think it would be a bad idea to switch to the d1 after using the amsoil for 6-8 months? I always used to hear ppl say stick with the same oil. If thats the case maybe I'll suck it up and use d1 from the start of synthetic use.. Thanks in advance guys,
Dave

---

If you want to save money on Oil changes Get yourself a By-pass Filter such as the Frantz or a gulf coast setup.. You'll always have clean oil forever!


www.bypassfilter.com

I personally have on my PSD a Frantz on the engine and transmission! Soon To have another frantz filter for the fuel!

[ October 01, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[Lightman]

Thanks for the tips guys. I've decided to keep it simple. I'm going to run D1300 till 15k miles and then switch to Delvac 1.

 

[rdhinds]

Lightman, you'd better check the manual before you go purchase the oil, the HO Cummins Diesels in the '04 Dodge takes 36 qts, not 12. The price is a bit higher than you are expecting. There is another way to recoup some of the oil expense. Others have mentioned bypass filtering and here is another bypass filter manufacturer, oil guard, that I have located and was wondering other peoples comments about them,


They have quite a bit of information on their page about how bypass filters work, and seem to shoot down the other bypass manufacturers clames to sub-micron filtering. Does anyone have comments about their claims?

I to have ordered an '04 Dodge HO Cummins, live in Iowa (winters to -40F) and I think that I am going to go with the Scheaffer Supreme 7000 15W-40. But I will definately follow Cummins recommendations for the break-in period, towing a load or just putting some dirt in the box. There is one person on the Cummins web page claiming more than 1 million miles on his Dodge. This link is to the Cummins Turbo Diesel Newsletter.
http://list.priceweber.com/cummins/million_mile.html
Proof that routine maintenance and good oil will make it last a long time.

[ October 01, 2003, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[Lightman]

Rhinds, you are smoking some good stuff, please pass it. The cummins holds 12 quarts, or 3 gallons....

[ October 01, 2003, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
one of the best by-pass filters is the Mann-Hummel "Spinner 2". This is a centrifuge and probably the most efficient of all the by-pass units
Delvac 1 oil and a Spinner by-pass is an excellent combination for a modern diesel engine. The D1 handles high levels of soot but the Spinner removes most of it quickly anyway
I have found that the Spinner's contaminant removal rate is .0025gram/km in my operation

Donaldson's "ELF" full flow filters are designed for extended drain periods and have an excellent filtration performance. They allow minimal time in cold oil by-pass mode and this in combination with Del 1 ( 5w-40 )ensures good start up protection at almost any temperature

Warming up a large sump to a desired operating temperature takes quite some time - the sumps in my trucks hold 38 litres

Regards

 

[Lightman]

I ran d1 and an oilguard bypass filter on my TDI. It definitely did well, but the TBN depletion didn't really allow me to go that much further than a non bypassed TDI. Granted the bypass filters and sumps are bigger on the cummins, so each filter change would replenish a lot more additives and TBN, I figure why bother.. I've already weighed the costs and options and will NOT be going with a bypass filter setup on the CTD. Thanks for the suggestion though guys.