Need to vent!!!

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Very blurry line going from free to hourly sometimes.

I have consulted for 15 years. I give advice to an organization "free" however hire out the work with a silent hourly kick no less to keep the line clear. Having intermittent pay confuses the line.

Opportunity!
 
You set the initial tone my doing "THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS" in free work. Now you're surprised when they want you to continue to do free work? And now you get your knickers in a knot when they're not happy about it when you refuse?

Tough. Too bad. It isn't your problem, so just man up, get over it and move on. There's no reason to go off in a rant, no reason to vent, no reason to have a hissy fit.
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
You set the initial tone my doing "THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS" in free work. Now you're surprised when they want you to continue to do free work? And now you get your knickers in a knot when they're not happy about it when you refuse?

Tough. Too bad. It isn't your problem, so just man up, get over it and move on. There's no reason to go off in a rant, no reason to vent, no reason to have a hissy fit.


Exactly.
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They took him for a fool and sucker. That is the truth, it STILL is a BUSINESS, and as such you handle yourself accordingly with that organization...
You NEVER do FREE LABOR for a FOR PROFIT BUSINESS. EVER!
 
Sometimes good people volunteer their services and get a kick on their butt...

I would have done it for a short time and said I'm too busy in my 'paid career' to keep doing it for free.
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
You set the initial tone my doing "THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS" in free work. Now you're surprised when they want you to continue to do free work? And now you get your knickers in a knot when they're not happy about it when you refuse?

Tough. Too bad. It isn't your problem, so just man up, get over it and move on. There's no reason to go off in a rant, no reason to vent, no reason to have a hissy fit.

Pop, you are very down to earth and business-like, but you sometime forget there are some of us driven by "making a difference" or "passion".
sometime/somehow to the point of being "foolish/completely taken advantage off".
What can I say: we learn this a little bit slowly than others?

OP/NHHEMI, remember this, find something else you like, put this behind you and IN FIVE YEARS YOU WON'T EVEN REMEMBER THIS!
 
I never said this was a "business" I said it was an organization. As said I am not naming names but this was a non profit, membership, type thing. The "projects" I ran for them had to do with events( some for kids ). I enjoyed doing the work very much and it was more about that enjoyment than profit for me. I do a website totally for free for a local charity as well. It is something I do when I feel it is worth it.

I agreed to take on the website at a reduced rate originally to help them get on their feet. It was a small side thing long before I started doing website work as my only source of income( that came about after I got sick and couldn't do my regular job anymore ). As the years went on and membership grew, and they were better off financially, I started to charge a bit more but I still held back a lot out of loyalty to the place. Then I was told to start charging normally. I still charged less than I normally would though, and did a lot of gratis work, because it was appreciated and I was helping out. As said I had emotional ties to the place. Wasn't just a client.

That all changed following the hostile takeover. Some of the new people clearly linked me to those they had ousted and wanted me gone. Others had no clue about all the work I did for them but even after finding out still whined about charges made even when it got expensive because of their mistakes I tried to warn about. They asked me to do things and then once done complained I didn't do it right despite following the info I was given. They lied about me and complained about everything. They also seemed to expect me to be clairvoyant or something and to know they wanted things done differently than the people they ousted despite not telling me of any changes in procedure( or amending our service agreement ).

It all came to a head this past summer. I was slammed for doing exactly what they asked me to do in accordance with their new policies, and in accordance with our service agreement, and they still berated me and turned it against me as a negative. I decided it was clear they wanted me gone and were trying to make me quit. So I did.

However, I have no issue with the regular folks who are part of the organization. My issue is with a handful of people who pulled off a hostile takeover and who someday will be gone. I tried to hold on and get through until that time so that I could stay on doing the website and projects( for enjoyment not massive profit ). I gave the 60 days for two reasons. One being I didn't want to abandon the good folks there as the site is integral to their activities and such. The other being I could walk away with my head up knowing I did right by the good people. Also, when the time comes and what these people did comes to light no blame can be laid at my feet. I believe that time is coming as the site is floundering and the new Webmaster seems incompetent. The fact they actually came to me to fix it tells me trouble is brewing there.

To those who call me a sucker maybe I am. I was raised to help and be a good person. I tried to do that for them. To those who say I am whining, well maybe a bit but it is what it is.
 
Originally Posted By: pandus13
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
You set the initial tone my doing "THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS" in free work. Now you're surprised when they want you to continue to do free work? And now you get your knickers in a knot when they're not happy about it when you refuse?

Tough. Too bad. It isn't your problem, so just man up, get over it and move on. There's no reason to go off in a rant, no reason to vent, no reason to have a hissy fit.

Pop, you are very down to earth and business-like, but you sometime forget there are some of us driven by "making a difference" or "passion".
sometime/somehow to the point of being "foolish/completely taken advantage off".
What can I say: we learn this a little bit slowly than others?


Also remember I did this for almost a decade with no problems and the place appreciated what I did. THAT is why I did so much for free and ran events for them. It all fell apart in a short time frame. This wasn't years in the making this was months in the making. It started going South about 4 months after the hostile takeover. As said above, I put up with it in an attempt to weather the storm until new people took over. 99% of the stuff I talk of that made me resign happened in a 2-3 month span. I actually didn't stick around and take it for long.

My info was brief and general on purpose but because of that people are assuming things and filling in blanks with inaccurate info. I appreciate very much though the responses from those who offered kind words or who at least were reasonable in advice/criticism. Some here are their usual Negative Nancy but that is to be expected.
 
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Originally Posted By: oilboy123
I hope you find appreciation and fulfillment in a different endeavor. I try to rationalize they way people behave. I'm 54,and have not got any closer to making sense of it at my ripe age, vs when I was very young.


I'm 35 and stopped trying to rationalize why some people are genuinely good people, and others are [censored]. It's like the sun, the stars, the moon, and the Earth: it just is!
 
One thing I learned dealing with businesses and employers is that nothing is free unless absolutely no money exchange takes place and even then the line can be very blurry. The moment any amount of money is exchanged, either above or below market value, there is no such thing as free work or services.
After that, everything is viewed as managing the time and work load. Yes, some people will appreciate the extra time you put in, but there will be others and those are getting to be the majority, that will see it as you simply managing your time and workload since they paid you money and you never asked for anything extra.

That is why a clear understanding of work and compensation is critical. Otherwise misunderstandings will take place and one party will get the short end of the deal. In this case, lots of no charge services not appreciated by the new management and a cold shoulder treatment.

Would OP feel different had he charged for every single minute he spent on this project, even if at the end he was forced to leave anyways? I think that there would be much less frustration and regret for the commitment.
 
NHHEMI,

Did they berate and trash you face to face, or was it done to you in a web forum ?

What does your wife say about how they treated you after you put so much time and effort into this organization ?
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
I hope you find appreciation and fulfillment in a different endeavor. I try to rationalize they way people behave. I'm 54,and have not got any closer to making sense of it at my ripe age, vs when I was very young.


I'm 35 and stopped trying to rationalize why some people are genuinely good people, and others are [censored]. It's like the sun, the stars, the moon, and the Earth: it just is!


Drew,

Some people are very good with honorable intentions.... Others are opportunists that take what ever they can and then discard the person like a piece of trash.... On to the next victim (host for sucking their blood).

I see this narcissism a lot in the past 20 years, even in young children.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
One thing I learned dealing with businesses and employers is that nothing is free unless absolutely no money exchange takes place and even then the line can be very blurry. The moment any amount of money is exchanged, either above or below market value, there is no such thing as free work or services.
After that, everything is viewed as managing the time and work load. Yes, some people will appreciate the extra time you put in, but there will be others and those are getting to be the majority, that will see it as you simply managing your time and workload since they paid you money and you never asked for anything extra.

That is why a clear understanding of work and compensation is critical. Otherwise misunderstandings will take place and one party will get the short end of the deal. In this case, lots of no charge services not appreciated by the new management and a cold shoulder treatment.

Would OP feel different had he charged for every single minute he spent on this project, even if at the end he was forced to leave anyways? I think that there would be much less frustration and regret for the commitment.


The money itself is really irrelevant to me in this case. I bring it up only because it was used against me unjustly. My frustration stems from all the things said about me that were just flat out untrue. Clearly money was not a motivating factor for me doing what I did for them. Sure, if this was a regular type client who paid for every bit of work done I would feel different but that is not the case here. I wouldn't have been doing all the volunteer work or free work nor would I have any attachment to the place and feel violated and betrayed. This was a unique situation.

However, when they complain and basically accuse me of ripping them off over legit charges I did make for work they requested, when I have provided them thousands upon thousands in free work, it sort of gets to you. One such charge was for less than $200 and they had a FIT??? Was a rush job they requested. Once done they went nuts. I was and still am at a loss as to why. The charge was less than it should have been based on our service agreement. THAT is how money plays into it for me.

Not all of the people that took over were "new" either. Some were there previous and knew what I had done for the place over the years. There was also a written service agreement in place that justified all charges made the new people could have looked at. No one ever contacted me to talk about making changes until things were already done and then they would - to complain and berate me.

Also, people need to stop calling that place a business. It is not and normal rules don't apply. It is a not for profit small membership based organization. One I did a lot of volunteer work for and free/reduced website work for. It is not the same thing as being a regular employer/employee situation.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
NHHEMI,

Did they berate and trash you face to face, or was it done to you in a web forum ?

What does your wife say about how they treated you after you put so much time and effort into this organization ?



I am not married, thank God, so no wife to worry about.
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The things said came in e-mail communications from the people involved. It was sort of an electronic face to face if you will. Never had a true face to face meeting but that is the norm these days anyway. Everything is done electronically.

I actually tried at one point to gather everyone for a sit down to work it all out and was refused. There was also one phone call where I tried to alert them of a problem and I got major attitude back over it. I really think they just wanted me out and nothing I could say or do would be right for them.
 
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