My neighbor storage his oil filter with oil

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I don't see any direct problems with the claimed practice. The media isn't going to break down over that period of time. Heck - I've run 3 year OCIs before; filter was fine after I took it off and examined it.

But, I also see zero advantage to it either. If one keeps the filters in the box, in a dry place, the can won't rust. So why go to the extra effort and mess for no tangible gain?

Live and let live.
 
What if he fills them with Quaker State then decides he wants to run Pennzoil instead? Does he drain them and refill them?
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I don't see any direct problems with the claimed practice. The media isn't going to break down over that period of time. Heck - I've run 3 year OCIs before; filter was fine after I took it off and examined it.

But, I also see zero advantage to it either. If one keeps the filters in the box, in a dry place, the can won't rust. So why go to the extra effort and mess for no tangible gain?

Live and let live.



40 year old filter I got to rip open, paper was like any other filter media I ripped.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...980#Post2639980
 
I didn't read anyone say it couldn't/shouldn't be done. I think the point is, what practical benefit does it serve? None that I'm aware of.

And as one poster put it, it's an accident waiting to happen.

To each their own, but I'll keep my oil stored in a capped bottle or jug until ready for use. Then prime the filter if I choose, right before use.
 
Prefilling "pendant" filters just before installing them ain't a bad idea since it results in the lube system running "dry" for maybe a few seconds less (wild guess) while it tries to fill that brand new filter. Don’t know why medias would ever need to be “pre-soaked” (although Charlie Sheen often needs pre-soaking with vodka before a night of bar hopping). Filters are engineered to store just fine in their cardboard box, without oil, for years before using them; they’re not fragile. If he wants to preserve the rubber in the filter, it'd probably be more useful to store them in a refrigerator, rather than 100F heat in a garage, not that storing filters next to the Sam Adams ale would ever be necessary on this planet anyway, unless the filter’s going on the Space Shuttle (but your neighbor would need to travel back in time for a launch, which I'm sure he can do….just ask him).
 
Pre-filling filters is, IMO, un-necessary. Others prefer to do it. I see and understand the logic of prefilling, but I don't think people consider the alternative concepts. Allow me to explain.

First, look at the obvious advantages to pre-filling a filter (I'm going to ignore the topic of how much time elapsed from fill to use; seconds or months still results in a pre-filled filter). The upside is that the oil pressure reaches all intended parts that much sooner; everyone would agree to that and would see that as a benefit.

Now, let's acknowledge the risk of not pre-filling. Some portion of time (perhaps 5 seconds) of non-pressurized running.

OK - now look at the other size of each condition, as compared to how normal things work.

In pre-filling lube into the filter, where do you pour it? The only practical place is the center hole, which is the OUTPUT of most filters. You are, essentially, pouring unfiltered oil into the out-bound side of the filter. No one I know of tries to overcome the ADBV and put the oil in the outer holes of a filter; which is the "normal" flow path which leads to proper filtration. And yet, so very many people here freak out when they think of the potential of the filter bypass valve opening up temporarily. Hundreds of threads have occured because folks are terrified about the filter bypass valve being overwhelmed, and yet many of those same folks are ignorantly doing the same thing by pre-filling the filter; they are introducing unfiltered oil (and be assured that "new" oil really isn't that clean ...) into the filter in such a way that it will go straight into the engine. Why? So they can have immediate pressure.

And let's examine closer that "pressure" need. Most all folks follow the recommendation to warm the equipment before draining. So, all components are at proper temps, which means the clearances are good. I would like to think that most folks realize when they drain the oil, there is still oil that exists with surface tension in all the lube pathways, along cylinder walls, etc. Unless you let the equipment drain for HOURS, you're not likely to get all the oil out anyway. But, some folks love to let the pan drip, drip, drip in a vain attempt to "get all the old oil out". And then they "pre-fill" a filter so as to send unfiltered oil right into the very engine they are so cautiously trying to protect. Ironic, is it not!

Here's the way I see a reasonable approach to the OCI.
1) Warm the engine (equipment). That makes for good lube flow upon draining, and takes clearances to proper sizing.
2) Shut down, drain pan, and pull filter.
3) Install dry filter while pan drains.
4) As quickly as practical, reinstall drain plug as soon as the drips start; dripping indicates full volume flow is done.
4) Install lube and fire it up.

Even though the engine will have no pressure for a few seconds, there is still plenty of residual oil on the bearing journals and on walls via surface tention, as to provide a slick surface. While not desirable for continued operation, it's certainly not dastardly damaging.

And I would point to the millions of vehicles out there that exhibit great UOAs, even though they don't get "pre-filled". There are some applications where pre-filling cannot take place (many Toyota's use fitlers mounted with the base plate pointed down, after all). And yet those non-pre-filled engines turn in great UOAs. In fact, the UOA evidence suggests over a broad mass market that pre-filling offers no distinct advantage. OTOH, there is no evidence that pre-filling exhibits a risk either.

Pre-filling is a "feel good" practice that neither helps nor hurts. And, the logic supporting that practice is only solid until a reasoned analytical approach is undertaken, and then the reality of data shows it's moot. It neither helps nor hurts.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Pre-filling is a "feel good" practice that neither helps nor hurts. And, the logic supporting that practice is only solid until a reasoned analytical approach is undertaken, and then the reality of data shows it's moot. It neither helps nor hurts.


Agreed. We've all heard points both for and against filling and not pre-filling. I don't think we've seen any data in that regard, of course. Nonetheless, I fortunately don't have to worry about it, since my filters are all sideways, and when I had the Audi (dome side down), it's filters were a huge nuisance to try to fill.
wink.gif
 
I would certainly agree, conceptually, that a lot of wear occurs at start up, and is probably magnified when it's a "dry" start up. And, I suppose, if dry starts were extremely common (perhaps you changed filters every 100 miles or so and did a dry start each time), that the frequent dry starts might amount to a shift in wear.

But - they're not common, and they are not frequent. In fact, if you change oil/filter every 5k miles, and are a "normal" person with 50/50 driving pattern, then you might be seeing perhaps 200 starts in 5k miles. (I estimated that at 25 miles per start). So if only one of those 200 starts is "dry", and the rest are unavoidably "wet", are we to expect that 1/200th of a criteria is going to shift wear data? THAT is where the reality of the situation lays. A dry start once every 5k miles is probably akin to .5% of total starts.

Being a more frequent starter would drive up wear a bit, but that is because of the total starts and not the one dry start. In fact, the ratio of starts belittles the dry start, with the more wet starts you set forth.

Conversely, if you were a highway driver, with relatively few total starts, you could argue that the one dry start does have a greater % factor in total wear, but since your total mileage is so very easy on oil (highway miles are truly the best and easiest on lubes), then the total wear metals are going to be low, regardless of that one dry start.

Either way one looks as the percentages, conceptually, dry starts are basically meaningless, and pre-filling cannot skew the wear but perhaps infintessimally.

But, we are BITOGers after all. We do tend to get caught up in the silliness of lube talk, when the rest of the world does just fine without us.

But hey, why let that pesky entity of data, combined with logic, get in the way of a good myth!
 
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I usually pour some oil into a filter when I'm beginning an oil change then set it in its box till time to spin on the new filter.
If the filter hangs straight down then it can be filled.
If its sideways, then I use less, maybe a quick half fill & by the time I get to it most has absorbed into the media - still, I do a quick spin-on to avoid spillage.
So it gets oil at the start, but won't be setting for long.
I see no advantage storing it filled bagged up.
 
A bunch of Toyota I 4s have the filter mounted at about 45 degrees, plus or minus. Even with a "real good" ADBV, filters tend to go dry after a while. Aside from not being able to prefill a filter at that angle and have much stay in long enough to get it mounted, the engines go through the empty filter syndrome many many times at start up. Doesn't seem to stop them from going 300K anyway.
 
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