Your BMW are specified for use of LL-01 because in NA petrol is of low quality. It's been said million times, I thought we passed this long time ago. If you were ever to make a switch to a low sulphur petrol, oil recommendations will change too.
Motul 300V 0W40 or M1 0W40 ?
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Originally Posted By: chrisri
Your BMW are specified for use of LL-01 because in NA petrol is of low quality. It's been said million times, I thought we passed this long time ago. If you were ever to make a switch to a low sulphur petrol, oil recommendations will change too.
I think we are having some confusion, yes, I mentioned that earlier in the thread too, that Euro cars sold here are spec'ing the "old" full-SAPS oils due to fuel quality (in fact, that was my first post that I think you replied to) which will not change in the immediate future.
However, these cars are designed to function properly (in areas with appropriate fuels) on lower SAPS lubricants, and that verbiage will be reflected in the owners manual.
On older cars, this will NOT be the case, even when sold abroad, and the statements I am seeing from the oil companies and manufacturers is to use an oil consistent with what is said in the owners manual.
One cannot simply assume that a 2001 BMW for example, in England, which specifies LL-01 in the owners manual, can safely use a lower SAPS oil just because the fuel quality allows it in newer vehicles. And this is consistent with the language from the ACEA. This is WHY I made the point about back-spec'ing earlier on, as if it was safe to do so, there would be documentation that calls/allows for it, similar to (as I already noted) the back-spec'ing to the 5w-20 viscosity in North America.
We on the same page now?
Your BMW are specified for use of LL-01 because in NA petrol is of low quality. It's been said million times, I thought we passed this long time ago. If you were ever to make a switch to a low sulphur petrol, oil recommendations will change too.
I think we are having some confusion, yes, I mentioned that earlier in the thread too, that Euro cars sold here are spec'ing the "old" full-SAPS oils due to fuel quality (in fact, that was my first post that I think you replied to) which will not change in the immediate future.
However, these cars are designed to function properly (in areas with appropriate fuels) on lower SAPS lubricants, and that verbiage will be reflected in the owners manual.
On older cars, this will NOT be the case, even when sold abroad, and the statements I am seeing from the oil companies and manufacturers is to use an oil consistent with what is said in the owners manual.
One cannot simply assume that a 2001 BMW for example, in England, which specifies LL-01 in the owners manual, can safely use a lower SAPS oil just because the fuel quality allows it in newer vehicles. And this is consistent with the language from the ACEA. This is WHY I made the point about back-spec'ing earlier on, as if it was safe to do so, there would be documentation that calls/allows for it, similar to (as I already noted) the back-spec'ing to the 5w-20 viscosity in North America.
We on the same page now?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Also found this neat as it ties into the challenges presented by the lowering of SAPS:
http://www.google.com/patents/CA2547436C?cl=en
Quote:
One problem associated with lower SAPS lubricants is increased engine wear due to reduced phosphorus levels limiting the amount of conventional anti-wear additives that can be used. This problem is particularly evident for rotating tappets in the valve train, which can stall when lubricated with lower SAPS lubricants and exhibit unacceptable wear.
US 2003/0148895 A discloses lubricating oil compositions intended to reduce wear in the Peugeot T'U3M Scuffing Test. This test is intended to investigate wear on the cam and tappets of an internal combustion engine. The disclosures of this document show that relatively high levels of boron (derived from borated dispersant) and preferably augmented with significant amount of molybdenum (derived from, e.g., a trinuclear molybdenum additive) are required to reduce cam and tappet wear to acceptable levels.
WO 03/064568 A2 discloses lubricating oil compositions for use with low sulfur fuels in internal combustion engines. The lubricating oils, when tested in a Sequence IVA test, result in increased wear (cam nose wear and total wear) as the molybdenum and boron concentrations thereof are reduced. Other disadvantageous effects are also apparent.
Note that this was filed by Infineum, which is the joint venture between Mobil and Shell
I recommend reading the whole document as it is a pretty interesting article that outlines the challenges and how they've attempted to deal with them.
http://www.google.com/patents/CA2547436C?cl=en
Quote:
One problem associated with lower SAPS lubricants is increased engine wear due to reduced phosphorus levels limiting the amount of conventional anti-wear additives that can be used. This problem is particularly evident for rotating tappets in the valve train, which can stall when lubricated with lower SAPS lubricants and exhibit unacceptable wear.
US 2003/0148895 A discloses lubricating oil compositions intended to reduce wear in the Peugeot T'U3M Scuffing Test. This test is intended to investigate wear on the cam and tappets of an internal combustion engine. The disclosures of this document show that relatively high levels of boron (derived from borated dispersant) and preferably augmented with significant amount of molybdenum (derived from, e.g., a trinuclear molybdenum additive) are required to reduce cam and tappet wear to acceptable levels.
WO 03/064568 A2 discloses lubricating oil compositions for use with low sulfur fuels in internal combustion engines. The lubricating oils, when tested in a Sequence IVA test, result in increased wear (cam nose wear and total wear) as the molybdenum and boron concentrations thereof are reduced. Other disadvantageous effects are also apparent.
Note that this was filed by Infineum, which is the joint venture between Mobil and Shell
I recommend reading the whole document as it is a pretty interesting article that outlines the challenges and how they've attempted to deal with them.
chrisri,
Originally Posted By: chrisri
To be honest 90% of,European engines are flat tappet, and ALL diesels (in some countries they make 80% of the market share) are turbocharged.
I am not so sure about that. Most of the european engines I am aware of are using hydraulic adjusters. Prior to writing the post about flat tappet and zddp I actually went through tonnes of literatures and even a university phd work financed by BP Castrol on how to switch away from ZDDP to protect CATs and make low SAPS to provide a better wear protection.
I am sure many people do remember that in the begining of 2000s to mid 2000s there were some issues with camshaft wear and after closer analysis it was discovered that dropping zink levels in oil brought some issues on flat tappet engines.
Google for "flat tappet zddp" and you will understand what I mean.
Another interesting thing, we got here probably one of the cleanest fuels on the planet and yet local Nissan OD are using A3/B4 oils in my flat tappet engine (OCI 15'000 km) ... Coincidence?
Originally Posted By: chrisri
To be honest 90% of,European engines are flat tappet, and ALL diesels (in some countries they make 80% of the market share) are turbocharged.
I am not so sure about that. Most of the european engines I am aware of are using hydraulic adjusters. Prior to writing the post about flat tappet and zddp I actually went through tonnes of literatures and even a university phd work financed by BP Castrol on how to switch away from ZDDP to protect CATs and make low SAPS to provide a better wear protection.
I am sure many people do remember that in the begining of 2000s to mid 2000s there were some issues with camshaft wear and after closer analysis it was discovered that dropping zink levels in oil brought some issues on flat tappet engines.
Google for "flat tappet zddp" and you will understand what I mean.
Another interesting thing, we got here probably one of the cleanest fuels on the planet and yet local Nissan OD are using A3/B4 oils in my flat tappet engine (OCI 15'000 km) ... Coincidence?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Your BMW are specified for use of LL-01 because in NA petrol is of low quality. It's been said million times, I thought we passed this long time ago. If you were ever to make a switch to a low sulphur petrol, oil recommendations will change too.
I think we are having some confusion, yes, I mentioned that earlier in the thread too, that Euro cars sold here are spec'ing the "old" full-SAPS oils due to fuel quality (in fact, that was my first post that I think you replied to) which will not change in the immediate future.
However, these cars are designed to function properly (in areas with appropriate fuels) on lower SAPS lubricants, and that verbiage will be reflected in the owners manual.
On older cars, this will NOT be the case, even when sold abroad, and the statements I am seeing from the oil companies and manufacturers is to use an oil consistent with what is said in the owners manual.
One cannot simply assume that a 2001 BMW for example, in England, which specifies LL-01 in the owners manual, can safely use a lower SAPS oil just because the fuel quality allows it in newer vehicles. And this is consistent with the language from the ACEA. This is WHY I made the point about back-spec'ing earlier on, as if it was safe to do so, there would be documentation that calls/allows for it, similar to (as I already noted) the back-spec'ing to the 5w-20 viscosity in North America.
We on the same page now?
Yes we are
. Let us focus on a cars builders after 00-01. There's no point in discussing older cars because of their age and different fuel management system used in those. Diesels were completely different animals back then. Don't hang on strongly on that 06-07 year for mid/low SAPS oil introduction, it could happen earlier as I was writing by my memory.
As for your post about abnormal wear with use of C oils, we had a small Citroen van with 1.6 diesel which was on C2 diet as per specification. And sure enough camshaft failed, but can't remember precise mileage. What I found later on is that main culprit wasn't low SAPS formula, but rather low HT-HS of C2 oil. According to a PSA technician cars that used C3 oil didn't had those failures.
I can give you one example; my Stilo diesel is without DPF from factory ,and is specified for A3/B4 oil. Same car with exactly the same engine but with DPF use C3 oils. I guarantee you that engines are exactly the same.
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Your BMW are specified for use of LL-01 because in NA petrol is of low quality. It's been said million times, I thought we passed this long time ago. If you were ever to make a switch to a low sulphur petrol, oil recommendations will change too.
I think we are having some confusion, yes, I mentioned that earlier in the thread too, that Euro cars sold here are spec'ing the "old" full-SAPS oils due to fuel quality (in fact, that was my first post that I think you replied to) which will not change in the immediate future.
However, these cars are designed to function properly (in areas with appropriate fuels) on lower SAPS lubricants, and that verbiage will be reflected in the owners manual.
On older cars, this will NOT be the case, even when sold abroad, and the statements I am seeing from the oil companies and manufacturers is to use an oil consistent with what is said in the owners manual.
One cannot simply assume that a 2001 BMW for example, in England, which specifies LL-01 in the owners manual, can safely use a lower SAPS oil just because the fuel quality allows it in newer vehicles. And this is consistent with the language from the ACEA. This is WHY I made the point about back-spec'ing earlier on, as if it was safe to do so, there would be documentation that calls/allows for it, similar to (as I already noted) the back-spec'ing to the 5w-20 viscosity in North America.
We on the same page now?
Yes we are
. Let us focus on a cars builders after 00-01. There's no point in discussing older cars because of their age and different fuel management system used in those. Diesels were completely different animals back then. Don't hang on strongly on that 06-07 year for mid/low SAPS oil introduction, it could happen earlier as I was writing by my memory.As for your post about abnormal wear with use of C oils, we had a small Citroen van with 1.6 diesel which was on C2 diet as per specification. And sure enough camshaft failed, but can't remember precise mileage. What I found later on is that main culprit wasn't low SAPS formula, but rather low HT-HS of C2 oil. According to a PSA technician cars that used C3 oil didn't had those failures.
I can give you one example; my Stilo diesel is without DPF from factory ,and is specified for A3/B4 oil. Same car with exactly the same engine but with DPF use C3 oils. I guarantee you that engines are exactly the same.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: volodymyr
chrisri,
Originally Posted By: chrisri
To be honest 90% of,European engines are flat tappet, and ALL diesels (in some countries they make 80% of the market share) are turbocharged.
I am not so sure about that. Most of the european engines I am aware of are using hydraulic adjusters. Prior to writing the post about flat tappet and zddp I actually went through tonnes of literatures and even a university phd work financed by BP Castrol on how to switch away from ZDDP to protect CATs and make low SAPS to provide a better wear protection.
I am sure many people do remember that in the begining of 2000s to mid 2000s there were some issues with camshaft wear and after closer analysis it was discovered that dropping zink levels in oil brought some issues on flat tappet engines.
Google for "flat tappet zddp" and you will understand what I mean.
Another interesting thing, we got here probably one of the cleanest fuels on the planet and yet local Nissan OD are using A3/B4 oils in my flat tappet engine (OCI 15'000 km) ... Coincidence?
Euro engines use either shimms or hydraulic adjusters, but most of them are flat tappet, and do not use rollers.
Lately some of them did switch to a roller design, but that is mostly efficiency related with a lesser parasitic drag lost when using this design, not wear per say.
With American pushrod v8 things are different, but I'm not familiar with those, and it's irrelevant for discussion.
chrisri,
Originally Posted By: chrisri
To be honest 90% of,European engines are flat tappet, and ALL diesels (in some countries they make 80% of the market share) are turbocharged.
I am not so sure about that. Most of the european engines I am aware of are using hydraulic adjusters. Prior to writing the post about flat tappet and zddp I actually went through tonnes of literatures and even a university phd work financed by BP Castrol on how to switch away from ZDDP to protect CATs and make low SAPS to provide a better wear protection.
I am sure many people do remember that in the begining of 2000s to mid 2000s there were some issues with camshaft wear and after closer analysis it was discovered that dropping zink levels in oil brought some issues on flat tappet engines.
Google for "flat tappet zddp" and you will understand what I mean.
Another interesting thing, we got here probably one of the cleanest fuels on the planet and yet local Nissan OD are using A3/B4 oils in my flat tappet engine (OCI 15'000 km) ... Coincidence?
Euro engines use either shimms or hydraulic adjusters, but most of them are flat tappet, and do not use rollers.
Lately some of them did switch to a roller design, but that is mostly efficiency related with a lesser parasitic drag lost when using this design, not wear per say.
With American pushrod v8 things are different, but I'm not familiar with those, and it's irrelevant for discussion.
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Originally Posted By: chrisri
I can give you one example; my Stilo diesel is without DPF from factory ,and is specified for A3/B4 oil. Same car with exactly the same engine but with DPF use C3 oils. I guarantee you that engines are exactly the same.
How old is that engine?
I can give you one example; my Stilo diesel is without DPF from factory ,and is specified for A3/B4 oil. Same car with exactly the same engine but with DPF use C3 oils. I guarantee you that engines are exactly the same.
How old is that engine?
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$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: chrisri
With American pushrod v8 things are different, but I'm not familiar with those, and it's irrelevant for discussion.
Didn't some (somewhat recent) generations of Land Rover use a GM v8 with a non-roller cam?
I would certainly say what is important for American V8's on this side of the pond (though they are all roller now) may be far less relevant to you guys, but I don't think completely irrelevant as it could be tied into this discussion as a branch of it.
With American pushrod v8 things are different, but I'm not familiar with those, and it's irrelevant for discussion.
Didn't some (somewhat recent) generations of Land Rover use a GM v8 with a non-roller cam?
I would certainly say what is important for American V8's on this side of the pond (though they are all roller now) may be far less relevant to you guys, but I don't think completely irrelevant as it could be tied into this discussion as a branch of it.
chrisri,
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Euro engines use either shimms or hydraulic adjusters, but most of them are flat tappet, and do not use rollers.
I see. I presume one of the most important parameter we did not discuss in this topic is the pressure on a cam lobe. The higher the pressure, the higher the quantity of zink should be. I presume in modern cars which specify C3 as acceptable spec the pressure on cam lobe is not very high.
That being said, since we here are oil enthusiasts and we are over zealous I think we will not sleep well when zddp is low
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Euro engines use either shimms or hydraulic adjusters, but most of them are flat tappet, and do not use rollers.
I see. I presume one of the most important parameter we did not discuss in this topic is the pressure on a cam lobe. The higher the pressure, the higher the quantity of zink should be. I presume in modern cars which specify C3 as acceptable spec the pressure on cam lobe is not very high.
That being said, since we here are oil enthusiasts and we are over zealous I think we will not sleep well when zddp is low
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: chrisri
I can give you one example; my Stilo diesel is without DPF from factory ,and is specified for A3/B4 oil. Same car with exactly the same engine but with DPF use C3 oils. I guarantee you that engines are exactly the same.
How old is that engine?
It is a 06 engine ,and first model year for this engine (multijet), but evolutions of older Unijet engines.
It's worth mentioning that A3/B4, LL-01 oils back in 01 were quite different to current ones. Tests back then weren't as tough as they are today so IMO a current C3 oil is probably as effective at lest as those back then in a cars design in that period.
Originally Posted By: chrisri
I can give you one example; my Stilo diesel is without DPF from factory ,and is specified for A3/B4 oil. Same car with exactly the same engine but with DPF use C3 oils. I guarantee you that engines are exactly the same.
How old is that engine?
It is a 06 engine ,and first model year for this engine (multijet), but evolutions of older Unijet engines.
It's worth mentioning that A3/B4, LL-01 oils back in 01 were quite different to current ones. Tests back then weren't as tough as they are today so IMO a current C3 oil is probably as effective at lest as those back then in a cars design in that period.
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Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: chrisri
I can give you one example; my Stilo diesel is without DPF from factory ,and is specified for A3/B4 oil. Same car with exactly the same engine but with DPF use C3 oils. I guarantee you that engines are exactly the same.
How old is that engine?
It is a 06 engine ,and first model year for this engine (multijet), but evolutions of older Unijet engines.
It's worth mentioning that A3/B4, LL-01 oils back in 01 were quite different to current ones. Tests back then weren't as tough as they are today so IMO a current C3 oil is probably as effective at lest as those back then in a cars design in that period.
In many aspects? Yes. But they would have had much higher levels of ZDDP in them and the effects of ZDDP haven't changed. Regarding your engine, given the age of that design, it would have been designed/updated with lower SAPS in mind.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: chrisri
I can give you one example; my Stilo diesel is without DPF from factory ,and is specified for A3/B4 oil. Same car with exactly the same engine but with DPF use C3 oils. I guarantee you that engines are exactly the same.
How old is that engine?
It is a 06 engine ,and first model year for this engine (multijet), but evolutions of older Unijet engines.
It's worth mentioning that A3/B4, LL-01 oils back in 01 were quite different to current ones. Tests back then weren't as tough as they are today so IMO a current C3 oil is probably as effective at lest as those back then in a cars design in that period.
In many aspects? Yes. But they would have had much higher levels of ZDDP in them and the effects of ZDDP haven't changed. Regarding your engine, given the age of that design, it would have been designed/updated with lower SAPS in mind.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: chrisri
I can give you one example; my Stilo diesel is without DPF from factory ,and is specified for A3/B4 oil. Same car with exactly the same engine but with DPF use C3 oils. I guarantee you that engines are exactly the same.
How old is that engine?
It is a 06 engine ,and first model year for this engine (multijet), but evolutions of older Unijet engines.
It's worth mentioning that A3/B4, LL-01 oils back in 01 were quite different to current ones. Tests back then weren't as tough as they are today so IMO a current C3 oil is probably as effective at lest as those back then in a cars design in that period.
In many aspects? Yes. But they would have had much higher levels of ZDDP in them and the effects of ZDDP haven't changed. Regarding your engine, given the age of that design, it would have been designed/updated with lower SAPS in mind.
If you look into ACEA 12 oil sequences you will see that max camshaft scuffling wear is the same for A3/B4 and C3 oils. I would made a link but I'm on a mobile, try to google, it's a PDF.
@ volodimyr, google ACEA 12 sequence and compare valve wear between full and mid/low SAPS oils.
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: chrisri
I can give you one example; my Stilo diesel is without DPF from factory ,and is specified for A3/B4 oil. Same car with exactly the same engine but with DPF use C3 oils. I guarantee you that engines are exactly the same.
How old is that engine?
It is a 06 engine ,and first model year for this engine (multijet), but evolutions of older Unijet engines.
It's worth mentioning that A3/B4, LL-01 oils back in 01 were quite different to current ones. Tests back then weren't as tough as they are today so IMO a current C3 oil is probably as effective at lest as those back then in a cars design in that period.
In many aspects? Yes. But they would have had much higher levels of ZDDP in them and the effects of ZDDP haven't changed. Regarding your engine, given the age of that design, it would have been designed/updated with lower SAPS in mind.
If you look into ACEA 12 oil sequences you will see that max camshaft scuffling wear is the same for A3/B4 and C3 oils. I would made a link but I'm on a mobile, try to google, it's a PDF.
@ volodimyr, google ACEA 12 sequence and compare valve wear between full and mid/low SAPS oils.
chrisri,
Originally Posted By: chrisri
@ volodimyr, google ACEA 12 sequence and compare valve wear between full and mid/low SAPS oils.
Yep, I know that pdf by heart
Moreover, quite recently I asked on this forum if anyone heard about Porsche C30 which according to Lubrizol scores 10 (max value) in engine wear protection (ACEA A1, A3, A5 and C3 score 6): http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3585110/Oils_with_Porsche_A30_specific
This is a Low SAPS oil and frankly speaking not so many people in that thread were convinced that what is on the paper is good in reality.
Originally Posted By: chrisri
@ volodimyr, google ACEA 12 sequence and compare valve wear between full and mid/low SAPS oils.
Yep, I know that pdf by heart
This is a Low SAPS oil and frankly speaking not so many people in that thread were convinced that what is on the paper is good in reality.
Last edited:
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Originally Posted By: chrisri
If you look into ACEA 12 oil sequences you will see that max camshaft scuffling wear is the same for A3/B4 and C3 oils.
But may not be the same for LL-01, MB229.5, Porsche A40....etc. Often there is an OEM approval that's required above and beyond the ACEA one.
If you look into ACEA 12 oil sequences you will see that max camshaft scuffling wear is the same for A3/B4 and C3 oils.
But may not be the same for LL-01, MB229.5, Porsche A40....etc. Often there is an OEM approval that's required above and beyond the ACEA one.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: chrisri
If you look into ACEA 12 oil sequences you will see that max camshaft scuffling wear is the same for A3/B4 and C3 oils.
But may not be the same for LL-01, MB229.5, Porsche A40....etc. Often there is an OEM approval that's required above and beyond the ACEA one.
When it comes to MB specifically, the wear limits for MB 229.5 spec (full SAPS) are exactly the same as for MB 229.51 spec (low/mid SAPS). Same goes for LL-01 vs LL-04.
However, then there is the whole notion of just meeting the spec vs. exceeding it. All these wear tests are just pass/fail, so we don't know if a given oil passed it with an A grade or just C-.
And then of course the other ever present question: does it really matter to an engine during its normal useful life?
Originally Posted By: chrisri
If you look into ACEA 12 oil sequences you will see that max camshaft scuffling wear is the same for A3/B4 and C3 oils.
But may not be the same for LL-01, MB229.5, Porsche A40....etc. Often there is an OEM approval that's required above and beyond the ACEA one.
When it comes to MB specifically, the wear limits for MB 229.5 spec (full SAPS) are exactly the same as for MB 229.51 spec (low/mid SAPS). Same goes for LL-01 vs LL-04.
However, then there is the whole notion of just meeting the spec vs. exceeding it. All these wear tests are just pass/fail, so we don't know if a given oil passed it with an A grade or just C-.
And then of course the other ever present question: does it really matter to an engine during its normal useful life?
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
In many aspects? Yes. But they would have had much higher levels of ZDDP in them and the effects of ZDDP haven't changed. Regarding your engine, given the age of that design, it would have been designed/updated with lower SAPS in mind.
OT, but this 1910cm3 Fiat engine traces its origins around 1995/1996, it has been updated severly during its life, several versions, from 65 to 150/160cv. There's a Fiat oil recommendation that appeared, something like 9.5535 and/or 9.5535-n2 (didn't do researches about it, I admit).
Surely the design has been updated over its ~14-15 years life, and I know my local Fiat agent is using low SAPS oil since at least 2010 (unless you specify something else)...but I think that's just a matter of oil rationalisation between the models they maintain...
@volodymyr: rationalising through my oil stash is tempting, and my gf will more than probably agree with you. I could set for a global 5W40 regimen (shall I say Motul 300V 5W40? Lol), but uses are different between cars and I prefer adjusting, that's why I came on bitog after all^^
In many aspects? Yes. But they would have had much higher levels of ZDDP in them and the effects of ZDDP haven't changed. Regarding your engine, given the age of that design, it would have been designed/updated with lower SAPS in mind.
OT, but this 1910cm3 Fiat engine traces its origins around 1995/1996, it has been updated severly during its life, several versions, from 65 to 150/160cv. There's a Fiat oil recommendation that appeared, something like 9.5535 and/or 9.5535-n2 (didn't do researches about it, I admit).
Surely the design has been updated over its ~14-15 years life, and I know my local Fiat agent is using low SAPS oil since at least 2010 (unless you specify something else)...but I think that's just a matter of oil rationalisation between the models they maintain...
@volodymyr: rationalising through my oil stash is tempting, and my gf will more than probably agree with you. I could set for a global 5W40 regimen (shall I say Motul 300V 5W40? Lol), but uses are different between cars and I prefer adjusting, that's why I came on bitog after all^^
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Further to my above post, the limits for wear with respect to those OEM approvals I mentioned above may not only be differently numerically, but may be performed on a completely different test mule as well. That is, if you had an OEM approval that was above and beyond the ACEA protocols in tappet wear for example, and the demands of the application necessitated that, and the test mule used by the OEM reflected those increased demands, 10 years later, when a new protocol is developed, again above and beyond the ACEA protocols, but is tested on a mule that is more modern and reflective of newer engine technology with lower SAPS in mind, one may not be able to safely use an oil meeting the newer spec in the older engine.
I believe this was reflected in one of the BMW oil charts that somebody posted, and I unfortunately can't find, showing which oil specs can safely be used in which engine family.
I believe this was reflected in one of the BMW oil charts that somebody posted, and I unfortunately can't find, showing which oil specs can safely be used in which engine family.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I believe this was reflected in one of the BMW oil charts that somebody posted, and I unfortunately can't find, showing which oil specs can safely be used in which engine family.
This one?
This is quite dated now, by the way. I wish I had something more recent.
I believe this was reflected in one of the BMW oil charts that somebody posted, and I unfortunately can't find, showing which oil specs can safely be used in which engine family.
This one?
This is quite dated now, by the way. I wish I had something more recent.
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Found this:
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/BMW-Oil-Specs-and-Recs.pdf
It has a version of the chart I was referencing. Most engines show LL-04/LL-01 to be interchangeable except for the S62, which does NOT allow LL-04 to be used in place of LL-01, but does allow LL-98.
There is a newer version out there as well with more engines on it.
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/BMW-Oil-Specs-and-Recs.pdf
It has a version of the chart I was referencing. Most engines show LL-04/LL-01 to be interchangeable except for the S62, which does NOT allow LL-04 to be used in place of LL-01, but does allow LL-98.
There is a newer version out there as well with more engines on it.
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I believe this was reflected in one of the BMW oil charts that somebody posted, and I unfortunately can't find, showing which oil specs can safely be used in which engine family.
This one?
This is quite dated now, by the way. I wish I had something more recent.
That's the same one I just found. I'm certain there is a longer and newer list that I've seen, perhaps last year....
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I believe this was reflected in one of the BMW oil charts that somebody posted, and I unfortunately can't find, showing which oil specs can safely be used in which engine family.
This one?
This is quite dated now, by the way. I wish I had something more recent.
That's the same one I just found. I'm certain there is a longer and newer list that I've seen, perhaps last year....
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