Motor Trend rips 2020 Ford Explorer

[grampi]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by grampi
I love it when people try to justify their own bad behavior by using other people's bad behavior as an example...


You have confused legality with morality. The speed limit used to be 55mph. This was deemed legal. When the laws changed to allow 65-75mph, this was deemed legal. Was driving 65 when the speed limit was legally 55 morally repugnant, and "bad behavior", or was it simply illegal? Did morality change when the law changed? Is the law your ultimate guide to "good behavior"?

Conversely speaking, if you did something which was legal but morally wrong, would that then be acceptable? Even looking further, if one drives 65 on a stretch of freeway that is then by petition lowered to 55, by law, have you been exhibiting bad behavior all along, and now the law simply has exposed it?

Let's not get too wrapped up around how small towns and states generate taxes from the road, yeah?


I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of someone who is okay with breaking the law by speeding, but is not okay with people who break the law by left lane camping...people tend to only support the laws that are the most convenient for them...

It is not on you to decide who is braking law and who is not. If you drive in left lane you can get cited for two violations, obstructing traffic and driving in the left lane while not passing.
Whether someone is speeding or not is not your problem. Your argument is: I drive in left lane to prevent speeders? That is not your job. Stick in right lane, and if someone is driving 90 in 75, there is an institution that will take care of that.
On another note, obstructing traffic by driving in left lane is actually far more dangerous than someone speeding 20mph over.


When did I EVER say I drive in the left lane to prevent speeders? I never said that, nor do I do that. I simply pointed out that it's hypocritical to criticize others for breaking the law by left lane camping, but condone those who speed. One thing is breaking the law, and the other thing is also breaking the law. Why is one acceptable, but the other is not?

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by grampi


When did I EVER say I drive in the left lane to prevent speeders? I never said that, nor do I do that. I simply pointed out that it's hypocritical to criticize others for breaking the law by left lane camping, but condone those who speed. One thing is breaking the law, and the other thing is also breaking the law. Why is one acceptable, but the other is not?


Because speeding laws are not always black and white like you think they are. Hence the "reasonable" clause written into most states law books. Yes, the limit is 70, however the laws usually say that "you shall not drive in excess of what is considered reasonable with regard to traffic, weather, road conditions, et cetera."

That doesn't mean you can fly down a residential street at 40mph, but it also means you can't hog the left lane on a multi lane highway because you feel people shouldn't exceed the limit by even 1mph and impede the flow of traffic.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Man you guys make the best case for self driving vehicles...


Does your Tesla have autopilot? How is it? Is it a bit unnerving or is it more like driving a vehicle with adaptive cruise?

Yes, our Model 3 has AP. It is amazing. Scary, especially at first. Scary good.
What it is not is Auto Pilot. The driver has responsibility for driving the car.

Say you are on the freeway, going about 70.
Push down the right stalk to engage AP; the steering wheel shifts a little to center the car perfectly in the lane.
The car will keep speed and steer; but you will be warned to keep your hands lightly on the wheel.
If you approach a pack or someone pulls in front of you, the car will slow to keep 3 lengths (or whatever you set it to).
It will return to your speed when there is room. Basically stays with traffic.

Pull down turn signal stalk and the car will execute a perfect lane change, when it is safe.
It goes on and on.

Your car sends information back to Tesla on AP; Tesla has billions of miles worth of data; it is constantly increasing.
AP is regularly updated with over the air updates. It has improved quite a bit in the year we have had the car.

Next is FSD - Full Self Driving. That is a major update.
I don't use AP a lot because the car is such a blast to drive. It is 100% a driver's car. Fast. Instant fast.

Love, hate or don't care about Teslas, but they are incredible tech. The future.
There is no car like them. No one is even close.

I hope this answers your question.
Youtube has plenty of videos. Better yet, go take a test drive...


High 90% of all accidents are at least partially due to driver error.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by grampi


When did I EVER say I drive in the left lane to prevent speeders? I never said that, nor do I do that. I simply pointed out that it's hypocritical to criticize others for breaking the law by left lane camping, but condone those who speed. One thing is breaking the law, and the other thing is also breaking the law. Why is one acceptable, but the other is not?

Go to ATL on I85 and keep at speed limit, you might get ticket for obstructing traffic.
Again, speed is far less of an issue than left lane camping.

 

[grampi]

You guys are assuming I'm a left lane camper. I'm not. I stay right except to pass. I agree with you that drivers shouldn't park in the left lane. I simply made the point that speeding is no less illegal than left lane camping is, but most drivers today don't have a problem with speeding, but they do with LL campers. I think this is a matter of convenience....people WANT the LL camping law enforced because that allows them to speed...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by grampi


When did I EVER say I drive in the left lane to prevent speeders? I never said that, nor do I do that. I simply pointed out that it's hypocritical to criticize others for breaking the law by left lane camping, but condone those who speed. One thing is breaking the law, and the other thing is also breaking the law. Why is one acceptable, but the other is not?


Because speeding laws are not always black and white like you think they are. Hence the "reasonable" clause written into most states law books. Yes, the limit is 70, however the laws usually say that "you shall not drive in excess of what is considered reasonable with regard to traffic, weather, road conditions, et cetera."

That doesn't mean you can fly down a residential street at 40mph, but it also means you can't hog the left lane on a multi lane highway because you feel people shouldn't exceed the limit by even 1mph and impede the flow of traffic.


So who gets to determine what "reasonable" is? You? Me?

 

[MCompact]

Speeding- the last Great White Whale for the Safety Gestapo to pursue...

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by grampi
You guys are assuming I'm a left lane camper. I'm not. I stay right except to pass. I agree with you that drivers shouldn't park in the left lane. I simply made the point that speeding is no less illegal than left lane camping is, but most drivers today don't have a problem with speeding, but they do with LL campers. I think this is a matter of convenience....people WANT the LL camping law enforced because that allows them to speed...





Spot on.

 

[4WD]

They are public roads and our LEO's make good money off them … but 2 miles past here it's game on again.
Missed opportunity IMO …

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted by grampi
You guys are assuming I'm a left lane camper. I'm not. I stay right except to pass. I agree with you that drivers shouldn't park in the left lane. I simply made the point that speeding is no less illegal than left lane camping is, but most drivers today don't have a problem with speeding, but they do with LL campers. I think this is a matter of convenience....people WANT the LL camping law enforced because that allows them to speed...


One issue we have is caused by being forced to stay in the right lane.
They build these S curve entrance ramps where you try to accelerate in … when the RH lane is clogged with the fastest cars/trucks.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by grampi
You guys are assuming I'm a left lane camper. I'm not. I stay right except to pass. I agree with you that drivers shouldn't park in the left lane. I simply made the point that speeding is no less illegal than left lane camping is, but most drivers today don't have a problem with speeding, but they do with LL campers. I think this is a matter of convenience....people WANT the LL camping law enforced because that allows them to speed...

LL never prevented me from speeding. Your reasoning is wrong. I do not want LL bcs. it creates 2-3 mile back up where everyone gets nervous, start passing on the right, tailgating etc.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by grampi
You guys are assuming I'm a left lane camper. I'm not. I stay right except to pass. I agree with you that drivers shouldn't park in the left lane. I simply made the point that speeding is no less illegal than left lane camping is, but most drivers today don't have a problem with speeding, but they do with LL campers. I think this is a matter of convenience....people WANT the LL camping law enforced because that allows them to speed...


Do you exceed the limit to pass?

 

[4WD]

I would hope your Lexus does a great deal of that … even our Tahoe does quite a bit …

Out of inexpensive rentals … I found the sonar cruise control on the Fusion to be just about right …

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by grampi
You guys are assuming I'm a left lane camper. I'm not. I stay right except to pass. I agree with you that drivers shouldn't park in the left lane. I simply made the point that speeding is no less illegal than left lane camping is, but most drivers today don't have a problem with speeding, but they do with LL campers. I think this is a matter of convenience....people WANT the LL camping law enforced because that allows them to speed...

LL never prevented me from speeding. Your reasoning is wrong. I do not want LL bcs. it creates 2-3 mile back up where everyone gets nervous, start passing on the right, tailgating etc.


So basically you're saying you don't want people LL camping so everyone else can speed...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by grampi
You guys are assuming I'm a left lane camper. I'm not. I stay right except to pass. I agree with you that drivers shouldn't park in the left lane. I simply made the point that speeding is no less illegal than left lane camping is, but most drivers today don't have a problem with speeding, but they do with LL campers. I think this is a matter of convenience....people WANT the LL camping law enforced because that allows them to speed...


Do you exceed the limit to pass?


I do. I never said I didn't speed. I'm just saying that speeding is no less illegal than LL camping is...

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by grampi
You guys are assuming I'm a left lane camper. I'm not. I stay right except to pass. I agree with you that drivers shouldn't park in the left lane. I simply made the point that speeding is no less illegal than left lane camping is, but most drivers today don't have a problem with speeding, but they do with LL campers. I think this is a matter of convenience....people WANT the LL camping law enforced because that allows them to speed...


Do you exceed the limit to pass?


I do. I never said I didn't speed. I'm just saying that speeding is no less illegal than LL camping is...



Both are illegal, nothing can be more/less illegal. Something is either illegal or it isn't, although the consequences for breaking the law can vary. Left lane camping is more dangerous in my opinion then going say 70 in a 65.

Saying people want LL camping laws enforced so they can speed is jumping to conclusions. Many people want it enforced so it helps traffic flow, regardless of speed. Many times when I get stuck behind a LL camper, they are going BELOW the speed limit.

 

[Pew]

Originally Posted by grampi
So basically you're saying you don't want people LL camping so everyone else can speed...


I'm wiling to bet most of us don't want left lane campers so we can get to our destination without having somebody clog up the highways because they think they're too-good/self-righteous/absent-minded.

 

[grampi]

Again, and I feel like I need to keep saying this, I'm not condoning LL camping or speeding...I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of people thinking that speeding is acceptable, but LL camping is not...both are illegal, but many people believe there's nothing wrong with speeding because everybody does it...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by grampi
Again, and I feel like I need to keep saying this, I'm not condoning LL camping or speeding...I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of people thinking that speeding is acceptable, but LL camping is not...both are illegal, but many people believe there's nothing wrong with speeding because everybody does it...


One, when done in moderation, and when appropriate, may at worst, lead to a fine. Most LEO's don't pull over folks who aren't significantly above the limit though. The other backs up traffic, frustrates others and can lead to accidents when those frustrated folks attempt to get around the impediment.

The purpose of the two acts is also wildly different:
- Folks going above the limit are usually keeping pace with traffic and the idea is to get to one's destination as expediently as possible
- Folks LL camping/"policing the hammer lane" are actively working as a hindrance to the flow of traffic; working in opposition to the way traffic is supposed to flow either due to self-righteousness or by being an obliviot.

People don't typically maliciously speed; nobody gets out on the highway and drives 70 in a 65 because they are trying to be a menace. This is not to be confused with people driving like idiots like they are in the F&F, that's a whole different breed. On the other hand, folks that left lane camp either don't understand the rules of the road sufficiently to know they are a hazard, or they do it intentionally because they have serious mental issues. In either case, either due to ignorance or vindictiveness, their goal is not expedient arrival while being transparent in the flow of traffic.

 

[PimTac]

It's a moot point in my area as most left lanes on freeways are HOV lanes and they are Pay to Play.

What's funny is watching those driver's faces after they just paid $10 to be stopped in traffic like the rest of us.


Outside of the metro it's just common courtesy. When I see the German car come up on me like a bat out of heck flashing his lights like he owns the road then I move over and let him by. When I see that same driver pulled over by the State Patrol further down the way I give him a friendly wave as I go by.