Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The lower TBN oils hold up in diesels only because ULSD diesel is all that's available or legal for on-road diesels in the US.
I would agree except that there were cases that I recall of the same engine, being run on what I can only assume to be the same fuel and in the move from CI-4+ to a lower TBN CJ-4 oil, holding up as long or better in the TBN department. It (the CJ-4) whilst having a lower starting TBN, had better retention. I'm curious as to whether this was due to the organic additives in use? That was the speculation anyway.
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Lower sulfur fuel equals lower acid production and thus works fine in concert with a lower TBN oil.
WRT starting TBN versus TBN retention, I'm not arguing that they are the same thing.
I would argue that TBN retention can only be measured by UOAs, and that SOPUS synthetic oils have shown good TBN retention, if you believe the figures presented in the UOA forum here.
I do, and I agree. But so do many other oils. And some, with lower starting TBN's, appear to have better retention than others with higher starting TBN's. I find it quite interesting and subsequently don't just assume an oil with a higher starting TBN is going to last longer. Hence the value of UOA's here
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I regret that you found my comment regarding Doug Hillary and the 'ring to be uncivil, since you state that you were hoping to remain civil.
Civility is in the eye of the beholder, and I did not find your earlier post calling my conclusions "wild and wacky" to be particularly civil.
I had stated that the basis for your conclusions (VOA's) were "wild and wacky" in the context of the condemnation of the data those you were arguing with were using, but this was not meant to be an attack on your credibility and I felt was in step with the theme of the discussion occurring at the time. Whilst I found your remark regarding my mention of the Benz/Porsche engineers as a valid data point regarding lubricant performance to be an attack on mine.
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I can't find a thirty grade oil with better MRV @ -40 specs than AFE 0W-30 either, but then we never see -40C/F (they're the same) in this area.
I use Celcius because I'm Canadian BTW, in case you misunderstood why I used that as a reference point (which you appear to have based on that remark, ie "they're the same").
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WRT Euro oils, GC meets all but the Porsche specs covered by M1 0W-40, but is usually no less expensive.
My understanding is that this is because Porsche no longer approves any thirty grade oil for its engines.
QHP 5W-40 met all of the approvals that M1 0W-40 meets, as does Ultra 5W-40. I've only seen the QHP offered at a closeout chain, however. It was priced at $3.99/qt.
Since neither oil is readily available I can't claim that they cost less than M1 0W-40, which you can find pretty easily, although both SOPUS products meet the same certifications as M1 0W-40.
That's not accurate.
Mobil 1 0w40 has:
Nissan GT-R
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - M2
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - N2
OPEL Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025
OPEL Diesel Service Fill GM-LL-B-025
SAAB
That the SOPUS products don't meet. (Though SOPUS has Ferrari).
And on top of the above:
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - Z2
That GC doesn't meet.
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I'll close by saying that there is nothing wrong with any M1 oil. I used M1 0W-30 AFE in the newer of the two old Accords last winter and used M1 15W-50 in my old BMW last summer. I'm sure that you consider M1 a good choice based upon your favorable experience over the years, as does tig.
Nothing wrong with using what you've found to work well, especially since most flavors of M1 appear to offer specs as good as anything else available at a similar price point.
MSS is a much less impressive oil compared to other oils at the price point at which it's offered.
I can agree with that