Mobil Clean 5000 VOA

[Blue99]

Sump'n does't look right with the Phosphorous at 341 ppm.

Clean 5000 5W-30 is GF-4 rated and the spec reads as follows:

Section
3a. Catalyst Compatibility
- Phosphorous Content 0.08% maximum

3b. Wear
- Phosphorous Content 0.06% minimum

As I recall, the Japanese JAMA members of ILSAC requested the 600 ppm min floor as wear rates increased with less than 600 ppm of ZDDP-Phos during their testing.

So what explains the low phos level in this VOA?

 

[sully]

I guess we're just going to have to see some UOA's on this oil before any judgement can be made as to it's effectiveness. My engine is running smooth as a baby's behind with this oil and the gas mileage is up to par. No abnormal engine noise either. Although I not sure this means a thing. Could be all those wear metal particles floating around in my engine deadening the sound of my bearings and top end grinding away.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Yep looks like Schaeffers was ahead of their time, again. And Molakule has been telling us about antimony for years

Oil can be made without zinc...I think Fuchs makes one with none whatsoever. There should be a UOA here to and it did pretty good.
Even MK stated the only reason he adds zinc to his SX-UP is for people that want the higher levels. It is not necessary as there are better options.

I'm just surprised they went so much lower than the SM spec requires already. Quite a big drop.

 

[Buzzsaw]

Any idea of what the TBN of this oil may be?

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by G-Man II:
It is "new" in the sense that we are seeing...

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Funny. I remember when the shoe was on the other foot.

 

[medic]

quote:

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Originally posted by MolaKule:
Sodium is similar and they use a sodium sulfonate or sodium naphthenesulfonate. The sodium add is multifunctional:

3. functions as a rust inhibitor

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Ummm, I am not a chemist and don't claim to be one, but I thought sodium was an oxidizer? How can it inhibit rust?

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Yep... salts & rust are good friends.

I just want to know - with all this sodium being listed in the new oils, which will get hypertension first??...lol
1) Engine?????
2) Population from emissions????

 

[T-Keith]

Sodium Chloride causes rust, but this isn't sodium chloride. As we all learned in high school chemistry compounds can have very different traits then their elemental components. Hydrogen and water combust, but water won't.

 

[Stinky Peterson]

Some of the sodium additives are soap-like compounds.

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

---

Originally posted by T-Keith:
Sodium Chloride causes rust, but this isn't sodium chloride. As we all learned in high school chemistry compounds can have very different traits then their elemental components. Hydrogen and water combust, but water won't.

---

Guess I remembered chemistry but not typing.

It should read:
Hydrogen and Oxygen combust, but water(H20) won't.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I'm glad you guys clarified that. I would hate to see someone add 4-5 pinches from their salt shaker to each bottle of new oil before pouring.... lol

BTW.... I think hydrogen and oxygen studies were introduced to my chemistry class after I attended... lol

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Thanks to all helping me understand (in a novice kind of way) antimony and sodium adds.

It will be interesting to see if the new Clean 5000 SM will better UOAs than Drive Clean SL.

Is anyone going to be using this oil and show a UOA or 2 here in the near future??

 

[Cutehumor]

is this mobil clean 5000 gonna be the same formula as the exxon superflo? I saw new bottles at autozone of exxon superflo that said "new and improved formula"

 

[Triple_Se7en]

The Mobil Drive Clean 5000 is the first since around 1997 to add diesel applications to it's dino oils. Won't find that diesel wording on Havoline, Pennzoil, Valvoline, Quaker State, Motorcraft, Shell, Castrol .. etc.

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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What does Antimony Do?

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Antimony is a heavy-duty, high temperature anti-wear and Anti-oxidant agent.

quote:

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Ummm, I am not a chemist and don't claim to be one, but I thought sodium was an oxidizer? How can it inhibit rust?

---

As Stinky said, it's detergent soap. You have to realize that it is the metallic or organo-metallic compound that determines what it will do and how it reacts.

Sodium is but one of the alkili metals for many useful compounds.

For example, Redline's CV-2 gease is a sodium compound-based grease.

As pointed out by others, sodium sulfonates are nothing new.

[ February 20, 2005, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[T-Keith]

I believe carpy said that Exxon Superflow would be a step down from this, equivelent to "bulk only" Mobil clean.

-T

 

[csp203]

If these new additives all so wonderfull why does mobil 1 and mobil 1 ep use the "OLD" technology? I would assume that mobil 1 does not need Antimony.

Then again it may have Antimony in them to, but we would never know.

 

[buster]

quote:

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If these new additives all so wonderfull why does mobil 1 and mobil 1 ep use the "OLD" technology? I would assume that mobil 1 does not need Antimony.

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Cost. Same reason Amsoil is using OLD technology. The GF-4 specs call for reduced levels of ZDDP, so other alternatives have to be used. New additives are costing more.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by csp203:
If these new additives all so wonderfull why does mobil 1 and mobil 1 ep use the "OLD" technology? I would assume that mobil 1 does not need Antimony.

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Who says they are? We've seen a reduction in the boron, moly, and ZDDP in the new formulations of Mobil 1. These new formulas could very well have some antimony in them.

Just because the add packages in Mobil 1 don't match up completely with what we are seeing in the 5000 oil doesn't mean anything. Add packs are tailored to work with the base oil, and in this case you've got completely different base oils being used (PAO/AN in Mobil 1 and Group III in 5000).

 

[jorton]

Is this a mixed fleet HDEO? I was reading the gasoline and deisel engine specs on the back of the bottle.

If I compare it with the HDEO standard Delo 400plus, the sodium in this Clean 5000 worries me a little.

Do you think that formula will prove to be safe in the long run?