Mobil Clean 5000 VOA

[Hirev]

Obviously there are big changes in oil formulation after reading Pennzoil VOA thread and now this with some GF-4/SM.

Sure would like to know much more about Antimony. Are we taking about Antimony (Sb) that is also an EP lubricant found in some Gear oils.

Does this SM stuff smell like gear oil?

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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With calcium that low and virtually no magnesium, I'm wondering what is serving as a detergent in this oil?

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Recall that the detergent calcium is mostly in the form of of the oragno-metallic calcium sulfonates that carry a high tbn (overbased, almost alkili).

Both sodium and calcium are "soft" antiwear additives as well.

The secondary AW agent is ZDDP and helping out is boron, calcium, and sodium as primary AW agents.


As I predicted and stated two years ago, ZDDP would be phased out or reduced in lieu of other agents.

Sodium is similar and they use a sodium sulfonate or sodium naphthenesulfonate. The sodium add is multifunctional:

1. functions as a detergent
2. functions as an Anti-Wear agent
3. functions as a rust inhibitor
4. functions as the tbn reserve since it is overbased as well.
5. functions as a friction moifier.

Also, there might be bismuth and antimony compounds contained therein which does not show up on these analyses. Bismuth is similar to moly
and is an antioxidant and friction modifier.

Antimony is a heavy-duty, high temperature anti-wear and oxidant.

 

[sully]

Thanks for the information MolaKule. Just from face value any opinions on how this new oil will perform.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Just they other day in another thread I was telling someone I belive it was bugshu not to judge the oil just by VOA! I mentioned that their were a lot of things not currently tested for like cadnium, tungsten and antimony compounds to name just a few! Looks like I was on the right track!


P.S. Looks like SX-UP by Specialty Formulations has a new market!!!!

 

[buster]

To Molekule and Schaeffer's credit, they have been ahead of the game for awhile now.

Definitely interesting times. Neve seen a VOA like this before.

 

[BlazerLT]

What role does Antimony have?

What does it do?

 

[TooSlick]

This is hardly new technology ....

I have oil analysis tests of the Amsoil Series 2000 0w-30/20w-50 from 1997 that show 300 ppm of sodium, along with Ca and Mg.

The very low ZDDP is an interesting development, however....

TS

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:
This is hardly new technology ....

I have oil analysis tests of the Amsoil Series 2000 0w-30/20w-50 from 1997 that show 300 ppm of sodium, along with Ca and Mg.

The very low ZDDP is an interesting development, however....

TS

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It is "new" in the sense that we are seeing a mainstream oil maker (albeit the biggest one) using a formula that heretofore has only been seen in smaller boutique brands. As carpy said, this oil has a ton of antimony in it, and that is something new for OTC buck-fifty a quart oil. And when was the last time we saw an OTC oil using sodium as a detergent?

 

[DirtyApe]

So, I'm trying to figure out all this, is it a good oil to use, or?

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by mh2800:
So, I'm trying to figure out all this, is it a good oil to use, or?

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Only time will tell. But I predict it will show good UOAs.

 

[TooSlick]

I don't mean to po-po this stuff, but I think any good, Group II based petroleum oil w/ a decent add pack - like Chevron Supreme - will last for 5000 miles under "normal" driving conditions. This strikes me more as label engineering than anything else.

TS

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:
I don't mean to po-po this stuff, but I think any good, Group II based petroleum oil w/ a decent add pack - like Chevron Supreme - will last for 5000 miles under "normal" driving conditions. This strikes me more as label engineering than anything else.

TS

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I disagree. "Label engineering" would be sticking the "5000" on the old formula. This oil is clearly something new based on the VOA.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

G-man, it is something new based on the VOA, but only to meet the SM spec. Same thing as Drive Clean SL...it goes 5000 miles, just labelled SM rather than SL. "Not much to see here, please move on."

 

[buster]

quote:

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This is hardly new technology ....

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The fact that Blackstone labs had no idea what was going on with this sample is an example of how unique this is though.

ZDDP will be slowly phased out. As Molekule and even RL's Dave G. said, ZDP is cheap and it works. That is why we see it oil.

Amsoil uses OLD technology but it works. The new AFL is the most modern chemistry they seem to be using.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by ToyotaNSaturn:
G-man, it is something new based on the VOA, but only to meet the SM spec. Same thing as Drive Clean SL...it goes 5000 miles, just labelled SM rather than SL. "Not much to see here, please move on."

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Bull. Show me the Drive Clean SL UOA or VOA that shows additive levels like this 5000 stuff.

This oil is clearly NOT relabeled Drive Clean. It is a completely new formulation.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Oh no, I'm not saying it's relabelled DC, it's Mobil's attempt at making a conventional oil that meets the SM spec.

DC did this with the SL spec. The marketing arm is now saying "5000". My point is that it could have been called "DC 5000" with the SL spec....

 

[buster]

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000175

 

[sully]

My question is what makes up for the lower additive pack values we're seeing. AW/Dispersants????

 

[G-MAN]

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Originally posted by carpy:
One word....Antimony...and lots of it. That's all I'm gonna say.

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Carpy has given you the answer here. Antimony is one of the key ingredients in Schaeffers oils and works synergistically with the moly. Looks like Mobil is taking the same approach.

With calcium that low and virtually no magnesium, I'm wondering what is serving as a detergent in this oil?

This is exciting times, no? This is a PCMO formulated unlike anything we've seen before.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

I'm with Palut...formulate what works best, I don't care if it shows tin, lead, copper, potassium, sodium all together if it works best. I'm not saying what we see here is best I don't know....maybe it is...

Sodium is a detergent, at least it used to be. Unless there are some new sodium compounds? Boron could be dispersant. And AW is Antimony as Carpy stated.

Thanks again Carpy, glad the not so kind initial reception from some did not turn you off.