Michelin vs. Pirelli

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Originally Posted By: FowVay

I went in to look at the Pirelli because it rated so highly on the TireRack web page but once I saw the tire I realized that it is a directional design and I didn't really want that. It limits my rotation capability.



Hmmm, don't think my P7+ are directional.
 
The P7 isn't a directional tire, it just has an "inside" and "outside", so it can still be swapped whichever direction you want.
 
Ahh, thanks for pointing that out, guys. Yes, they do say "inside" and "outside" but they do not have a directional arrow. I guess they're asymmetrical but not directional.

That settles it then,,, I'm getting the Pirelli brand.

Thanks!
 
Originally Posted By: FowVay
Another oddity about the Michelin is that the new tread depth is only 8/32nds compared to a normal 10 or 11/32nds. It has some strange groove that gets wider as the tire wears so I suspect that in order to maintain shoulder strength they had to decrease the groove depth. Is this an issue? I have no idea.


Michelin was pretty clear about the widening groove. It is to maintain the water capacity between tread blocks after significant tread wear. Since hydroplaning performance is usually the first thing to fall off as tread gets thin, it is an interesting approach. We'll have to see how it works out.

It is also pretty clear that it is now impossible to discuss Michelin in a civilized manner on this board without a small group of people trying to shout you down about it.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Dude, how the heck can a tire make your car slower? Were they 50lbs heavier each? Were they a different diameter reducing the mechanical advantage of your differential?

LRR tires can effect a small change in fuel economy but they certainly aren't advertised as a power booster, LOL!!
grin.gif




I don't know, but it was immediately noticeable the moment I drove the car after having them put on. It takes more gas to get get the vehicle up to speed, and the car slows down faster after I take my foot off the gas. I put the tires on in early October, so I've put about 6k-8k miles on them, and it's still the same. I also rotated them a week or two back, and it's been the same. I have been meaning to take the car in for an alignment since it pulls slightly to the right, but I don't think that'll have an impact on the gas/power issue.

The tires are the same size as the originals, both are listed as LRR, and surprisingly the Michelins are listed as 2 pounds lighter on Tirerack.com.

Obviously the tread on the original tires had worn down over the years. However, they still had enough tread left on them to safely go another year or more if needed. I just never liked how they handled in snow/ice, which is why I decided to switch them out a year early before the winter started.

I don't know what's causing it, but the only thing that changed was the tires, and it was immediately noticeable the first time I drove the vehicle after having them installed. I was still in the parking lot where I got the tires installed, and I was already noting/commenting on the difference.
 
In your case where you want a really NICE tire for your vehicle, I don't think you can go wrong with either tire. It's almost impossible to predict which tire will be optimal(for your criteria) on your particular BMW unless both tire were tested on YOUR BMW!

One will never know until the tire is mounted and driven on! In this case, I'd buy by price!
 
I've driven on both - the Premier A/S rides better, is quieter and does substantially better under wet conditions. However, the P7s do handle a bit better and have a slight edge in dry conditions...the Premier A/S does have a rather "numb" feel compared to some other tires.

I have a set of Premier A/S on my own car (Prius), and a set on another car (Civic) that I maintain exclusively.

I would absolutely recommend the Premiers if you are looking for a quiet, high-quality tire with great wet traction. If you're looking for something sporty, look elsewhere.

As far as fuel economy, in 4000 miles, I've noticed a slight improvement over the worn set of Primacy MXM4s that I removed, so I can't validate the comments that the others have made.

Lastly, take a look at the tests on TireRack.com for these two tires.
 
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That's the thing Char Baby,,, they're the exact same price. I feel like I'm getting a better deal on the Michelin because they are a higher priced tire to begin with. Oddly enough, the Michelin (French) are made in Italy and the Pirelli (Italian) are made in Mexico. Pirelli does have a U.S. manufacturing facility in Rome, Georgia, and it is rumored that this location was chosen simply because of the name.

OK,, I made that location thing up but it sounded good.
smile.gif


I'm going to have a second look at the tires this morning before making the final decision and I'll probably choose based solely on looks. I stayed up late last night removing the wheels from the car and cleaning everything up.
 
The Critic, I'm glad to hear your review. Some have stated that the Michelin is a noisey tire and that is the only thing that has bothered me.

I'm heading over to Discount Tire in about an hour and I'll let you guys know what I ended up with. If I knew how to post a picture I'd get a before/after shot of my new baby
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: sicko
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Dude, how the heck can a tire make your car slower? Were they 50lbs heavier each? Were they a different diameter reducing the mechanical advantage of your differential?

LRR tires can effect a small change in fuel economy but they certainly aren't advertised as a power booster, LOL!!
grin.gif




I don't know, but it was immediately noticeable the moment I drove the car after having them put on. It takes more gas to get get the vehicle up to speed, and the car slows down faster after I take my foot off the gas. I put the tires on in early October, so I've put about 6k-8k miles on them, and it's still the same. I also rotated them a week or two back, and it's been the same. I have been meaning to take the car in for an alignment since it pulls slightly to the right, but I don't think that'll have an impact on the gas/power issue.

The tires are the same size as the originals, both are listed as LRR, and surprisingly the Michelins are listed as 2 pounds lighter on Tirerack.com.

Obviously the tread on the original tires had worn down over the years. However, they still had enough tread left on them to safely go another year or more if needed. I just never liked how they handled in snow/ice, which is why I decided to switch them out a year early before the winter started.

I don't know what's causing it, but the only thing that changed was the tires, and it was immediately noticeable the first time I drove the vehicle after having them installed. I was still in the parking lot where I got the tires installed, and I was already noting/commenting on the difference.

I don't doubt that you felt the car was slower. Nor does OVERK1LL, I'm sure.

The question is why, and the answer can't be the tires. It's physically impossible for a set of tires to make a car that much slower unless the new set is massively heavier and has a ton more rolling resistance. You said you went from a LRR tire to a 2 lb lighter LRR tire of the same type, so there's literally nothing left about the tire that would make the car slower.

There are all kinds of other possible explanations. Maybe the mechanics who installed your tires did something to cause the ECU to change the fuel trims/timing as they pulled it in and out of the shop. Maybe you were just paying extra close attention to the car after you got the new tires installed and perceived it to be slower, and once you blamed the tires the idea stuck with you. This is why people in industry and science do actual testing with numbers before they draw conclusions.

Either way, whatever explains the feeling you got, it can't be that the tires are actually slowing your car down.
 
Both tires being the same price, I would go with the Michelin due to it's better foul/wet weather traction and stability. This is more important to me since, I wouldn't be able to tell which tire is better on a nice dry, sunny day!
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Price being a factor "if" the P7's were less money, you wouldn't be cutting yourself short!

Also, no noticeable MPG differences in the P7's(eco friendly/LRR) compared to the previously replaced Hankook Optimo H727's(non LRR). It'll be 1 year in May'15 for the P7's.
 
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I went through this buyers choice twice in the last two weeks with two of my cars.

I have long been an advocate for the longevity and safety of the Michelin tire brand. However, they are pricey and I have tried other brands seeking a better performance/value model. This includes BFG (a Michelin subsidiary,) Kumho, General (top CR pick), etc. Invariably, I seem to still get my best returns on the Michelin brand.

After doing much research on the current Michelin tires product line-up (Defender and Premier) and reading a fair number of critical reviews, I selected Pirelli tires for both cars this time. One is the Scorpion Verde A/S Plus for the CR-V and the other is the Cinturato P7 A/S Plus for my Camry SE. Both tires owner reviews (Tire Rack, etc) are very positive and both cars now handle exceptionally better than with the factory tires that were on them (Conti and Bridgestone's).Time will tell whether this was a decent choice or not, but for now, they both look very promising.

Both were excellent buys at Sams Club ($80 instant rebate) and I am gonna file for the $60 Pirelli Visa card as well. My OTD Sams Club price was approx $600 per set; well below my local Discount Tire quoted price. (This includes Sams Club's free 4 year road hazard warranty, lifetime balancing/rotation, free roadside tire changeout, lifetime flat repair, etc).

Now that ChinaChem is in the process of acquiring Pirelli in a nearly $ 8 billion dollar buyout, this will be my first and last set(s) of Pirelli's and I will migrate back to Michelin or toward the Cooper CS5 series next time around. My C6 definitely gets Michelin's next time around-no debate. YMMV
 
Originally Posted By: CKN
Michelin are the greatest tires in the world. Everybody who reads this forum knows that.
"Everybody"?
 
I have the P7+ on my '13 Camry SE and so far it has had better mileage over the same daily trek. On a trip with trunk full and 3 adult passengers I got 41 mpg to Milwaukee from Minneapolis. It corners better than on the Bridgestone Terror'anza EL200 from factory.
 
After this past horror of a winter, I can attest to the Yokohama
Avid Envigor being very good in snow and rain as well as the dry. So equiped the car goes where it's pointed without drama, noise, or slip while also dealing well with snow, slush, and rain. I've got 205 60s on 15X7 alloys ( a bit larger than the Camry OEM) and the ride is better than I expected. They required very little in the way of balance weights, which is a good indicator of quality.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: CKN
Michelin are the greatest tires in the world. Everybody who reads this forum knows that.
"Everybody"?


No, not "Everybody."
 
Originally Posted By: FowVay
The Critic, I'm glad to hear your review. Some have stated that the Michelin is a noisey tire and that is the only thing that has bothered me.

I'm heading over to Discount Tire in about an hour and I'll let you guys know what I ended up with. If I knew how to post a picture I'd get a before/after shot of my new baby
smile.gif



I will say that noise is definitley not a factor with my Michelin's. They are smooth and quiet on most roads. The only time noise becomes an issues is on roads with horizontal grooves that are like an inch a part. For example, if you're on the highway, the tires are smooth and quiet on the asphalt, but then when you get to a concrete bridge that has those horizontal grooves every inch for it's entire length, that's when you hear the whine.
 
I put the Premier A/S on my son's X3 truck. NVH and overall ride are excellent. Handling is also quite good for an all-season Grand Touring tire.
 
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