VW 502/505 is not all 5w40s. It's 0w40, 5w40, 0w30, and 5w30. Most are heavy 30 or light 40.
M1 0w40 . . . . or . . . . . GC 0w30
- Thread starter rg200amp
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Originally Posted By: BigJohn
True that GC is 502 approved.....but your manual is going clearly state that you should be using 5w40.....and they don't deviate from that directive. You can use GC and feel great peace of mind that it is awesome for your engine, but have something go wrong and let VAG find out that you strayed from the directive of 5w40....and you risk any coverage. They have the right to do that.
VAG cannot denie coverage if one uses an oil they recommend.
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0023.File.pdf
But I yes, I do plan on doing my OCI at 5,15,25.
Thanks for your input!!
Originally Posted By: fredf
I believe the VW manual states any 502 oil is ok. I have checked with my dealer who said 'put in ANY 502 oil and you're ok'.
Changing oil at 500 m or 1000m is not only wasteful, it is needlessly bad for the environment. If you feel the need to outguess the engineers, then change your oil filter.
Changing oil too frequently may be more harmful for you car.
But even though the above has been stated many times, many owners still insist they know better. What can you do.
How is it bad for the environment? Im not pouring my old oil down a whales throat. Used oil is recycled.
Originally Posted By: SL8R
LOL @ someone with over 2000 posts asking this question.
What would you say is the most valuable thing you've learned in your time here?
I have learned to not really pay any mind what so ever to anyone with less than 1500 posts. Untill then, there mostly a waste of time. . .
Yes I have over 2000 posts. While I can tell you the CA amounts in PP and PU, the quality of Wix filters over orange cans, and the rest of the [censored] no one other than a BITOG user would know, yes sir, I, the one with 2000+ posts does indeed not know everything.
True that GC is 502 approved.....but your manual is going clearly state that you should be using 5w40.....and they don't deviate from that directive. You can use GC and feel great peace of mind that it is awesome for your engine, but have something go wrong and let VAG find out that you strayed from the directive of 5w40....and you risk any coverage. They have the right to do that.
VAG cannot denie coverage if one uses an oil they recommend.
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0023.File.pdf
But I yes, I do plan on doing my OCI at 5,15,25.
Thanks for your input!!
Originally Posted By: fredf
I believe the VW manual states any 502 oil is ok. I have checked with my dealer who said 'put in ANY 502 oil and you're ok'.
Changing oil at 500 m or 1000m is not only wasteful, it is needlessly bad for the environment. If you feel the need to outguess the engineers, then change your oil filter.
Changing oil too frequently may be more harmful for you car.
But even though the above has been stated many times, many owners still insist they know better. What can you do.
How is it bad for the environment? Im not pouring my old oil down a whales throat. Used oil is recycled.
Originally Posted By: SL8R
LOL @ someone with over 2000 posts asking this question.
What would you say is the most valuable thing you've learned in your time here?
I have learned to not really pay any mind what so ever to anyone with less than 1500 posts. Untill then, there mostly a waste of time. . .
Yes I have over 2000 posts. While I can tell you the CA amounts in PP and PU, the quality of Wix filters over orange cans, and the rest of the [censored] no one other than a BITOG user would know, yes sir, I, the one with 2000+ posts does indeed not know everything.
Oil isn't something to be decided subjectively, in my opinion.
GC meets the Audi turbo high horsepower 503.01 spec. M1 0w-40 used to, but not any longer.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Im looking for peoples views. Not hard fact, data backed, info.
Do you realize what this means? You just told us explicitly that you don't want reliable info, and that all you're interested in is hot air.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Oil isn't something to be decided subjectively, in my opinion.
You guys crack me up!
Where talking about two high quality oils with the history, UOAs, VOAs, ect. . . . to show their top performers.
I thought I was bad when it came to oil!!!
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Im looking for peoples views. Not hard fact, data backed, info.
Do you realize what this means? You just told us explicitly that you don't want reliable info, and that all you're interested in is hot air.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Oil isn't something to be decided subjectively, in my opinion.
You guys crack me up!
Where talking about two high quality oils with the history, UOAs, VOAs, ect. . . . to show their top performers.
I thought I was bad when it came to oil!!!
Originally Posted By: dparm
GC doesn't support the German economy. It supports the British economy.
If anything, buy Mobil 1 and it will support the US economy.
Castrol is owned by BP which is a British company. BP shares are 40% owned by Americans. GC is made in Germany. Castrol is a blender not a refiner; who know who refines the base stock, and where that comes from. The retailer (Autozone?)in the US makes the largest mark-up on a quart of oil. US spends 70 Billion a year on imported oil. Most of that oil comes from Canada.
Who cares where GC comes from....
GC doesn't support the German economy. It supports the British economy.
If anything, buy Mobil 1 and it will support the US economy.
Castrol is owned by BP which is a British company. BP shares are 40% owned by Americans. GC is made in Germany. Castrol is a blender not a refiner; who know who refines the base stock, and where that comes from. The retailer (Autozone?)in the US makes the largest mark-up on a quart of oil. US spends 70 Billion a year on imported oil. Most of that oil comes from Canada.
Who cares where GC comes from....
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
VAG cannot denie coverage if one uses an oil they recommend.
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0023.File.pdf
What viscosity does your manual state though? My Audi manual refers to the same oil list you referenced, but also specifically states which viscosity should be used. It states to use 5W-40, but 5W-30 is OK if 5W-40 cannot be obtained. So, even though GC meets the 502 specs, it is not an approved viscosity, for my engine at least.
VAG cannot denie coverage if one uses an oil they recommend.
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0023.File.pdf
What viscosity does your manual state though? My Audi manual refers to the same oil list you referenced, but also specifically states which viscosity should be used. It states to use 5W-40, but 5W-30 is OK if 5W-40 cannot be obtained. So, even though GC meets the 502 specs, it is not an approved viscosity, for my engine at least.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
In a choice between free oil changes with Syntec 5w40, and paying for my own oil changes with M1 0w40, I would go with the M1 0w40.
This is one of the more bizarre postings I have seen here...
In a choice between free oil changes with Syntec 5w40, and paying for my own oil changes with M1 0w40, I would go with the M1 0w40.
This is one of the more bizarre postings I have seen here...
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
In a choice between free oil changes with Syntec 5w40, and paying for my own oil changes with M1 0w40, I would go with the M1 0w40.
This is one of the more bizarre postings I have seen here...
LOL! Thank you very much, I do try!
But this is BITOG after all, where people are passionate about their motor oil lifestyle choices.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
In a choice between free oil changes with Syntec 5w40, and paying for my own oil changes with M1 0w40, I would go with the M1 0w40.
This is one of the more bizarre postings I have seen here...
LOL! Thank you very much, I do try!
But this is BITOG after all, where people are passionate about their motor oil lifestyle choices.
Originally Posted By: Sunstealer
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
VAG cannot denie coverage if one uses an oil they recommend.
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0023.File.pdf
What viscosity does your manual state though? My Audi manual refers to the same oil list you referenced, but also specifically states which viscosity should be used. It states to use 5W-40, but 5W-30 is OK if 5W-40 cannot be obtained. So, even though GC meets the 502 specs, it is not an approved viscosity, for my engine at least.
The manual for my S4 says 5w40, but that 5w30 is acceptable too.
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
VAG cannot denie coverage if one uses an oil they recommend.
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0023.File.pdf
What viscosity does your manual state though? My Audi manual refers to the same oil list you referenced, but also specifically states which viscosity should be used. It states to use 5W-40, but 5W-30 is OK if 5W-40 cannot be obtained. So, even though GC meets the 502 specs, it is not an approved viscosity, for my engine at least.
The manual for my S4 says 5w40, but that 5w30 is acceptable too.
Originally Posted By: glxpassat
GC meets the Audi turbo high horsepower 503.01 spec. M1 0w-40 used to, but not any longer.
Mobil lists 503.01 here:
http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/motoroil/oils/mobil_1_0w-40.aspx
But not here:
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.aspx
I'm not sure which is correct.
503.01 has been superseded by 504.00, Mobil may not bother listing the spec anymore.
GC meets the Audi turbo high horsepower 503.01 spec. M1 0w-40 used to, but not any longer.
Mobil lists 503.01 here:
http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/motoroil/oils/mobil_1_0w-40.aspx
But not here:
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.aspx
I'm not sure which is correct.
503.01 has been superseded by 504.00, Mobil may not bother listing the spec anymore.
It hasn't been on the PDS or back of bottle in the US since the SM formula came out years ago. They never updated the ad. It's still listed on the PDS of the Canadian SM version which has the same specs as the US SL version. VW 504 is the low saps version of 503.01.
Originally Posted By: Sunstealer
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
VAG cannot denie coverage if one uses an oil they recommend.
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0023.File.pdf
What viscosity does your manual state though? My Audi manual refers to the same oil list you referenced, but also specifically states which viscosity should be used. It states to use 5W-40, but 5W-30 is OK if 5W-40 cannot be obtained. So, even though GC meets the 502 specs, it is not an approved viscosity, for my engine at least.
Thats a question I've had too. The 2.0T for Audi and VW in the US both call for 5W-40 in the owner's and service manuals. What motors and where are the 0W40 approved for?
I am doing the same thing as the OP (doing an early OC on a new VW). But chose to go with GC 5W40 as I still like to keep the same oil as factory and dealer fill for compatibility reasons (lets not got off topic on that topic please).
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
VAG cannot denie coverage if one uses an oil they recommend.
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0023.File.pdf
What viscosity does your manual state though? My Audi manual refers to the same oil list you referenced, but also specifically states which viscosity should be used. It states to use 5W-40, but 5W-30 is OK if 5W-40 cannot be obtained. So, even though GC meets the 502 specs, it is not an approved viscosity, for my engine at least.
Thats a question I've had too. The 2.0T for Audi and VW in the US both call for 5W-40 in the owner's and service manuals. What motors and where are the 0W40 approved for?
I am doing the same thing as the OP (doing an early OC on a new VW). But chose to go with GC 5W40 as I still like to keep the same oil as factory and dealer fill for compatibility reasons (lets not got off topic on that topic please).
Originally Posted By: BBDartCA
Originally Posted By: Sunstealer
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
VAG cannot denie coverage if one uses an oil they recommend.
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0023.File.pdf
What viscosity does your manual state though? My Audi manual refers to the same oil list you referenced, but also specifically states which viscosity should be used. It states to use 5W-40, but 5W-30 is OK if 5W-40 cannot be obtained. So, even though GC meets the 502 specs, it is not an approved viscosity, for my engine at least.
Thats a question I've had too. The 2.0T for Audi and VW in the US both call for 5W-40 in the owner's and service manuals. What motors and where are the 0W40 approved for?
I am doing the same thing as the OP (doing an early OC on a new VW). But chose to go with GC 5W40 as I still like to keep the same oil as factory and dealer fill for compatibility reasons (lets not got off topic on that topic please).
I think a lot of people are confused about that....me included. I have assumed that the owner's manual is saying that 5W-40 is the preferred weight. But I cannot see how ANY 502.00 (which, after all, is an officially approved oil) could be considered inappropriate. And since GC is 502 then it should be ok.
But I must say that these are my logical assumptions and VW/Audi may very well be using some different Teutonic logic to end up with a different conclusion.
If the oil must be 5W-40, what is the point of approving oils that are not 5W-40?
Originally Posted By: Sunstealer
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
VAG cannot denie coverage if one uses an oil they recommend.
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0023.File.pdf
What viscosity does your manual state though? My Audi manual refers to the same oil list you referenced, but also specifically states which viscosity should be used. It states to use 5W-40, but 5W-30 is OK if 5W-40 cannot be obtained. So, even though GC meets the 502 specs, it is not an approved viscosity, for my engine at least.
Thats a question I've had too. The 2.0T for Audi and VW in the US both call for 5W-40 in the owner's and service manuals. What motors and where are the 0W40 approved for?
I am doing the same thing as the OP (doing an early OC on a new VW). But chose to go with GC 5W40 as I still like to keep the same oil as factory and dealer fill for compatibility reasons (lets not got off topic on that topic please).
I think a lot of people are confused about that....me included. I have assumed that the owner's manual is saying that 5W-40 is the preferred weight. But I cannot see how ANY 502.00 (which, after all, is an officially approved oil) could be considered inappropriate. And since GC is 502 then it should be ok.
But I must say that these are my logical assumptions and VW/Audi may very well be using some different Teutonic logic to end up with a different conclusion.
If the oil must be 5W-40, what is the point of approving oils that are not 5W-40?
The weight of the oil is more a factor of what is the normal temperature that the vehicle will be operating in. Is there really much difference between a 5W40 and a 0W40, or even GC which is almost a 0W40. Not to mention that M1 0W40 shears quickly to a whatever W30??
If you were running in -30F would you insist on a 5W40, or just use a 0W30?
If you were running in -30F would you insist on a 5W40, or just use a 0W30?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: fredf
Originally Posted By: BBDartCA
Originally Posted By: Sunstealer
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
VAG cannot denie coverage if one uses an oil they recommend.
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0023.File.pdf
What viscosity does your manual state though? My Audi manual refers to the same oil list you referenced, but also specifically states which viscosity should be used. It states to use 5W-40, but 5W-30 is OK if 5W-40 cannot be obtained. So, even though GC meets the 502 specs, it is not an approved viscosity, for my engine at least.
Thats a question I've had too. The 2.0T for Audi and VW in the US both call for 5W-40 in the owner's and service manuals. What motors and where are the 0W40 approved for?
I am doing the same thing as the OP (doing an early OC on a new VW). But chose to go with GC 5W40 as I still like to keep the same oil as factory and dealer fill for compatibility reasons (lets not got off topic on that topic please).
I think a lot of people are confused about that....me included. I have assumed that the owner's manual is saying that 5W-40 is the preferred weight. But I cannot see how ANY 502.00 (which, after all, is an officially approved oil) could be considered inappropriate. And since GC is 502 then it should be ok.
But I must say that these are my logical assumptions and VW/Audi may very well be using some different Teutonic logic to end up with a different conclusion.
If the oil must be 5W-40, what is the point of approving oils that are not 5W-40?
It is no different than API ratings. If your American-made car specifics SM-rated 5W-20, that doesn't mean you could run SM-rated 20W-50 and still be meeting the manufacturer's specs. The 502 rated oils are spec'd across a large variety of engines. You still need to match the viscosity for your particular engine though, in my opinion at least. I don't want to be the one trying to explain to my dealer why I thought it was OK to use a viscosity other than what the manual states.
I agree that GC 0W-30 would probably be fine. That is what I was planning on running until I read the owner's manual. I will now probably run Pennzoil Ultra European 5W-40 or Mobil 1 0W-40 instead, at least until the warranty runs out.
Originally Posted By: BBDartCA
Originally Posted By: Sunstealer
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
VAG cannot denie coverage if one uses an oil they recommend.
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0023.File.pdf
What viscosity does your manual state though? My Audi manual refers to the same oil list you referenced, but also specifically states which viscosity should be used. It states to use 5W-40, but 5W-30 is OK if 5W-40 cannot be obtained. So, even though GC meets the 502 specs, it is not an approved viscosity, for my engine at least.
Thats a question I've had too. The 2.0T for Audi and VW in the US both call for 5W-40 in the owner's and service manuals. What motors and where are the 0W40 approved for?
I am doing the same thing as the OP (doing an early OC on a new VW). But chose to go with GC 5W40 as I still like to keep the same oil as factory and dealer fill for compatibility reasons (lets not got off topic on that topic please).
I think a lot of people are confused about that....me included. I have assumed that the owner's manual is saying that 5W-40 is the preferred weight. But I cannot see how ANY 502.00 (which, after all, is an officially approved oil) could be considered inappropriate. And since GC is 502 then it should be ok.
But I must say that these are my logical assumptions and VW/Audi may very well be using some different Teutonic logic to end up with a different conclusion.
If the oil must be 5W-40, what is the point of approving oils that are not 5W-40?
It is no different than API ratings. If your American-made car specifics SM-rated 5W-20, that doesn't mean you could run SM-rated 20W-50 and still be meeting the manufacturer's specs. The 502 rated oils are spec'd across a large variety of engines. You still need to match the viscosity for your particular engine though, in my opinion at least. I don't want to be the one trying to explain to my dealer why I thought it was OK to use a viscosity other than what the manual states.
I agree that GC 0W-30 would probably be fine. That is what I was planning on running until I read the owner's manual. I will now probably run Pennzoil Ultra European 5W-40 or Mobil 1 0W-40 instead, at least until the warranty runs out.
Originally Posted By: Sunstealer
It is no different than API ratings. If your American-made car specifics SM-rated 5W-20, that doesn't mean you could run SM-rated 20W-50 and still be meeting the manufacturer's specs.
It's very different from API ratings. For an oil to meet VW 502.00 specifications, its viscosity must fall within a specific range (among other criteria). If VW/Audi specifies an engine must use a VW 502.00 oil, then they are by default specifying viscosity for that engine. If you want to talk about whether or not an oil meets the viscosity requirements of 502.00, cSt@100 and HTHS numbers are much more specific than oil grade alone. As for the owner's manual, I imagine the paragraph about how "some XW-30 oils meet the spec, but not all, it depends on how thick the actual oil is, because, see, not all XW-30 oils are exactly the same viscosity..." didn't make the final editing cut.
In keeping with BITOG standards, we can also agree that not all 502.00 oils are created equal, nor are the various engines which share the 502.00 oil spec (re: RLI / Audi S4) But for a naturally-aspirated, non-DI engine operated outside of climate extremes, the only difference you'll find between M1 and GC is going to be completely subjective. For example, my radio seems to get better reception with M1 in the crankcase, but YMMV.
In all seriousness, though, the 2.5 is gentle on oil and has a pretty large sump. My experience has been that there is no appreciable difference in fuel economy between thicker and thinner oils in the 502.00 range, but I seem to hear less timing chain noise when using an oil with a cSt@100 > 14. Pep Boys' Black Friday M1 near-giveaway helped me make a decision, I'm pretty committed to M1 for the next 50K or so.
Oh, I forgot one thing: Why hasn't anyone mentioned the high iron wear with M1?
It is no different than API ratings. If your American-made car specifics SM-rated 5W-20, that doesn't mean you could run SM-rated 20W-50 and still be meeting the manufacturer's specs.
It's very different from API ratings. For an oil to meet VW 502.00 specifications, its viscosity must fall within a specific range (among other criteria). If VW/Audi specifies an engine must use a VW 502.00 oil, then they are by default specifying viscosity for that engine. If you want to talk about whether or not an oil meets the viscosity requirements of 502.00, cSt@100 and HTHS numbers are much more specific than oil grade alone. As for the owner's manual, I imagine the paragraph about how "some XW-30 oils meet the spec, but not all, it depends on how thick the actual oil is, because, see, not all XW-30 oils are exactly the same viscosity..." didn't make the final editing cut.
In keeping with BITOG standards, we can also agree that not all 502.00 oils are created equal, nor are the various engines which share the 502.00 oil spec (re: RLI / Audi S4) But for a naturally-aspirated, non-DI engine operated outside of climate extremes, the only difference you'll find between M1 and GC is going to be completely subjective. For example, my radio seems to get better reception with M1 in the crankcase, but YMMV.
In all seriousness, though, the 2.5 is gentle on oil and has a pretty large sump. My experience has been that there is no appreciable difference in fuel economy between thicker and thinner oils in the 502.00 range, but I seem to hear less timing chain noise when using an oil with a cSt@100 > 14. Pep Boys' Black Friday M1 near-giveaway helped me make a decision, I'm pretty committed to M1 for the next 50K or so.
Oh, I forgot one thing: Why hasn't anyone mentioned the high iron wear with M1?
I still fail to understand why VW/Audi is so 'secretive' about their oil specifications leaving us second guessing.
BMW and MB are much more consistent, precise, and open about oil specifications.
Some lingering questions :
(1) US engines need 5W-40, same engine in EU runs on 5w-30 (the only viscosity approved for VW 504/506), yet the owner's manual specifically states that only 5w-40 may be used. (Use only 0W-x or xW-30 for top ups IIRC)
(2) Presumably 504 has replaced 503.01 and is its low SAPS equivalent. So where does Castrol Edge 0w-40 fit in? It is a low SAPS oil( BMW LL 04,MB xxx.51, ACEA C2,C3), yet 502,503.01 compliant.
http://www.castroledge.com.au/product/product_0w40.php
(3)As of 2011 VW 502 is still specified by Audi without any explanation as to the role of 504 oils in gasoline engines in the US.
BMW and MB are much more consistent, precise, and open about oil specifications.
Some lingering questions :
(1) US engines need 5W-40, same engine in EU runs on 5w-30 (the only viscosity approved for VW 504/506), yet the owner's manual specifically states that only 5w-40 may be used. (Use only 0W-x or xW-30 for top ups IIRC)
(2) Presumably 504 has replaced 503.01 and is its low SAPS equivalent. So where does Castrol Edge 0w-40 fit in? It is a low SAPS oil( BMW LL 04,MB xxx.51, ACEA C2,C3), yet 502,503.01 compliant.
http://www.castroledge.com.au/product/product_0w40.php
(3)As of 2011 VW 502 is still specified by Audi without any explanation as to the role of 504 oils in gasoline engines in the US.
IIRC VW 504/507 is a diesel spec.
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