Lower Priced Indian Models

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted By: 29662
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: 29662
They are outsold worldwide by Honda by a 19:1 margin. Please explain that statement.

Harley doesn't make outboard motors, lawn mowers, generators or cheap small displacement bikes that people tire of after short periods of ownership.Harley doesn't make a bike for every size displacement that can be conceived. They build large displacement heavyweight motorcycles that people have, and will pay a premium price to own.They have been doing this since 1903.Instead of flooding the market with throw away motorcycles, they build a product that can be rebuilt and used again and again. And people pay for that. And if you think Harley don't get used much, try going to any of the big bike rallys around the country. Hanging around the Honda dealer won't give you the real picture of the motorcycle world.,,


That 19:1 ratio was just for motorcycles. I see you want touch the reliability issue. No surprise. If you don't want to buy an Indian that's fine, but why come in here and try to belittle and bemoan Indian for putting out a nice offering: insecurity perhaps. If you don't like it don't buy it, simple as that. But I'll bet that it's a better product than what harley puts out; which is reporting 1 major problem in every 4 bikes sold. I see you haven't or won't address their reliability concerns.

Go Indian, I wish the greatest success. and as I've said if they make either an adventure bike or a sports bike I'm there.
Because I have as much a right as anyone to come here and tell the truth, you don't want to believe. The new Indian motorcycle company has nothing to do with the old motorcycle company. Again, they only bought the name.Trying to insinuate they had anything to do with the original company,is a LIE. one that I will point out every time I see them trying to sell the LIE. Why would anyone support a brand that has lied to you from the get go?.,,

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
There is rather a long thread on ADV if you care to investigate it.

At this site?

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: whip
...
At this site?


On ADV

 

[Robenstein]

Harley used to sell cheap small displacement bikes too, don't forget the days of rebranded Aermacchi bikes.

Harley also once made a scooter called the topper


Again...if you are going to defend HD, you better make sure they have not done the same thing you are slamming someone else like Indian or Honda for doing. Because if you do slam another brand for doing the same thing it is not the truth...it is spin and brand hagiography of the highest sort.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: whip
...
At this site?


On ADV

Thanks. Looks like I've got some reading to do.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Again...if you are going to defend HD, you better make sure they have not done the same thing you are slamming someone else like Indian or Honda for doing. Because if you do slam another brand for doing the same thing it is not the truth...it is spin and brand hagiography of the highest sort.

BigCahuna is like a politician. His rules don't apply to him.

In defense of HD, there's a member that claims HD is inferior, yet he's looking for advice on getting his bike repainted. Say what you want about Harley, but their paint is one of the best.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: 29662
That 19:1 ratio was just for motorcycles. I see you want touch the reliability issue. No surprise. If you don't want to buy an Indian that's fine, but why come in here and try to belittle and bemoan Indian for putting out a nice offering: insecurity perhaps.


Because he drinks the HD Kool-Aid and hates anything that doesn't say Harley Davidson on the tank...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Again...if you are going to defend HD, you better make sure they have not done the same thing you are slamming someone else like Indian or Honda for doing. Because if you do slam another brand for doing the same thing it is not the truth...it is spin and brand hagiography of the highest sort.

BigCahuna is like a politician. His rules don't apply to him.

In defense of HD, there's a member that claims HD is inferior, yet he's looking for advice on getting his bike repainted. Say what you want about Harley, but their paint is one of the best.


I agree with that...it's what's under the paint that blows...

 

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: 29662
That 19:1 ratio was just for motorcycles. I see you want touch the reliability issue. No surprise. If you don't want to buy an Indian that's fine, but why come in here and try to belittle and bemoan Indian for putting out a nice offering: insecurity perhaps.


Because he drinks the HD Kool-Aid and hates anything that doesn't say Harley Davidson on the tank...
No I don't hate everything that doesn't say Harley on it. But apparently metric owners can't get their facts straight. They make statements that aren't true, trying to convince themselves their bikes are superior. They will buy anything that's made cheaply, and condemn people that pay a premium for a quality motorcycle. The many motorcycle junkyards around full of metrics are testament to their metric quality.Not many are willing to pay to rebuild a 15 year old metric. Why , because they simply aren't worth it. Here's a fun fact for all the haters, a 15 year old Harley with it antiquated design and features, still sells for almost what it sold for new. A 15 year old metric throwaway bike is a parts bike.If this hurts your feelings well that's too bad. That's just the way it is. Waste your money any way you wan't, but be ready to hear truth. History doesn't lie.,,

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
No I don't hate everything that doesn't say Harley on it. But apparently metric owners can't get their facts straight. They make statements that aren't true, trying to convince themselves their bikes are superior.

Read what you just posted, and then go back and read some of your post. You do the exact same thing.

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Here's a fun fact for all the haters, a 15 year old Harley with it antiquated design and features, still sells for almost what it sold for new.

Got links to back up this fun fact?

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Not many are willing to pay to rebuild a 15 year old metric. Why , because they simply aren't worth it

Wrong again. Older metric bikes are being rebuilt, and many of them have very high price tags.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: 29662
That 19:1 ratio was just for motorcycles. I see you want touch the reliability issue. No surprise. If you don't want to buy an Indian that's fine, but why come in here and try to belittle and bemoan Indian for putting out a nice offering: insecurity perhaps.


Because he drinks the HD Kool-Aid and hates anything that doesn't say Harley Davidson on the tank...
No I don't hate everything that doesn't say Harley on it. But apparently metric owners can't get their facts straight. They make statements that aren't true, trying to convince themselves their bikes are superior. They will buy anything that's made cheaply, and condemn people that pay a premium for a quality motorcycle. The many motorcycle junkyards around full of metrics are testament to their metric quality.Not many are willing to pay to rebuild a 15 year old metric. Why , because they simply aren't worth it. Here's a fun fact for all the haters, a 15 year old Harley with it antiquated design and features, still sells for almost what it sold for new. A 15 year old metric throwaway bike is a parts bike.If this hurts your feelings well that's too bad. That's just the way it is. Waste your money any way you wan't, but be ready to hear truth. History doesn't lie.,,


Truth is, HD's quality is only skin deep....besides nice paint and nice chrome, they got nothin...

 

[Robenstein]

Just because you pay a premium for a vehicle does not mean it is superior in quality.

I see 20, 30, 40, and nearly 50 year old metrics that have been restored. As for not holding their value, not all Harleys do either. Some metrics hold value and some don't. There is a greater variety of metric models and metric buyers sometimes want something new and state of the art when their machine dies.

I still see tons of Suzuki 1100's and 1150's, Yamaha V maxes, Yamaha XS650's, and old CB 750's out there. Many have been modified and customized into cafe racers, bobbers, and drag bikes.

 

[LoneRanger]

Are Ducati's, Triumph's, BMW's, and Moto Guzzi's considered metrics? Or are they Euros. Whichever they're called, vintage examples are often prized and typically no expense is spared for meticulous restorations.

 

[29662]

Since they all use strictly metric hardware, I would categorize them as metric. ANd you're right I've seen some people spensome serious money restoring all kinds of vintage motorcycles; Euro, Asian, etc...

 

[FastGame]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Are Ducati's, Triumph's, BMW's, and Moto Guzzi's considered metrics? Or are they Euros. Whichever they're called, vintage examples are often prized and typically no expense is spared for meticulous restorations.


And Norton

Big guy will say they are not metric, he's got something against Japan.

But why would I think he knows anything about the motorcycle world, he spends his time at the "big bike rallys" you know the kind that's filled with Harley. How would he know anything about the restored custom KZ's coming out of Japan fetching $20,000-$37,000 and they sell them all like hotcakes. Not to mention the Holy Grail of metric, Honda CBX1000's....

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: 29662
That 19:1 ratio was just for motorcycles. I see you want touch the reliability issue. No surprise. If you don't want to buy an Indian that's fine, but why come in here and try to belittle and bemoan Indian for putting out a nice offering: insecurity perhaps.


Because he drinks the HD Kool-Aid and hates anything that doesn't say Harley Davidson on the tank...
No I don't hate everything that doesn't say Harley on it. But apparently metric owners can't get their facts straight. They make statements that aren't true, trying to convince themselves their bikes are superior. They will buy anything that's made cheaply, and condemn people that pay a premium for a quality motorcycle. The many motorcycle junkyards around full of metrics are testament to their metric quality.Not many are willing to pay to rebuild a 15 year old metric. Why , because they simply aren't worth it. Here's a fun fact for all the haters, a 15 year old Harley with it antiquated design and features, still sells for almost what it sold for new. A 15 year old metric throwaway bike is a parts bike.If this hurts your feelings well that's too bad. That's just the way it is. Waste your money any way you wan't, but be ready to hear truth. History doesn't lie.,,


My KZ1000 is 34yrs old, guess I forgot to throw it away then again its never needed to be rebuilt but it does have some hot mods. How old is your Harley ? There's no stock or slightly modified 34yr old Harley that can beat my KZ in anything (though maybe resale), same goes for the new ones (they beat me in MPG) and please don't say Vrod unless you just live for that 1st-2nd gear thing...after that Ole Vrod seeing nothing but Kawasaki tail light...haha

What about COP bikes ? COP's put a lot of hard miles on those old KZ's, Harley would've fallen apart trying to keep up. I remember when the Phoenix PD switched over from Harley to Kawasaki (Phoenix where it's real hot and hard on bikes). The young guys were excited...the old guys were crying about losing their beloved Harley. Well only took about a month before they changed their minds, Kawasaki didn't have an answer for the Harley meter maid trikes so I'll concede to you there.... HaHa

You are right about metric bikes in the junk yard but not for the reason you say. Harley guys take better care of their bikes because the spent their savings account on it and can't afford another. Metric guys run the [censored] out of their bikes and a few years later they move on to the next latest & greatest. Harley guys shine their bike before they get on, see how much noise they can make for a city block, get off and shine their bike again then putt putt around town like an old possum rummaging through a trash can. How much wear and tear is in all that ? You talk all this history stuff and act like Harley is all post EVO.

Who needs to get their facts straight ?

and

Why is this Indian thread getting polluted with Harley greatness, attacks on metric bikes and Indian is nothing more than a lie ?

IMO lie or not who ever buys an Indian is buying a better bike, time could prove me wrong.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: FastGame


And Norton

Big guy will say they are not metric, he's got something against Japan.

But why would I think he knows anything about the motorcycle world, he spends his time at the "big bike rallys" you know the kind that's filled with Harley. How would he know anything about the restored custom KZ's coming out of Japan fetching $20,000-$37,000 and they sell them all like hotcakes. Not to mention the Holy Grail of metric, Honda CBX1000's....


You forgot some other Brit bikes...offhand, my uncle had a Matchless Scrambler he wishes he still had!

 

[Robenstein]

For me it is a metric bike if the country that makes it uses the metric system as its dominant system. That means the bike was designed and built on metric specs. So that would make bikes from continental Europe metrics IMHO as they invented and adopted the system well before Japan ever had the idea.

Britain is kind of a mixed bag with it as they used metric designations for engines but still used things like imperial gallons. However, I will say I saw a 38k dollar Velocette Thruxton for sale at my bike dealer last month. They also had an ultra rare X75 Triumph Hurricane there that had a hefty price tag on it.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Here's a fun fact for all the haters, a 15 year old Harley with it antiquated design and features, still sells for almost what it sold for new.

Do you consider half of the value as "almost what it sold for new"? I know you won't answer. Your silence will be enough.

http://www.nadaguides.com/Motorcycles/1999/Harley-Davidson/FLHR-ROAD-KING-1450cc/Values

http://www.nadaguides.com/Motorcycles/2000/Harley-Davidson/FLTRSEI-SCREAMIN-EAGLE-1550cc/Values

Seriously, is it too much to ask that people don't make stuff up? I've seen people on both sides of this argument spew half truths and out right lies. If you have to make stuff up to make your point, you probably don't have a point.

 

[dr2152]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: 29662
That 19:1 ratio was just for motorcycles. I see you want touch the reliability issue. No surprise. If you don't want to buy an Indian that's fine, but why come in here and try to belittle and bemoan Indian for putting out a nice offering: insecurity perhaps.


Because he drinks the HD Kool-Aid and hates anything that doesn't say Harley Davidson on the tank...
No I don't hate everything that doesn't say Harley on it. But apparently metric owners can't get their facts straight. They make statements that aren't true, trying to convince themselves their bikes are superior. They will buy anything that's made cheaply, and condemn people that pay a premium for a quality motorcycle. The many motorcycle junkyards around full of metrics are testament to their metric quality.Not many are willing to pay to rebuild a 15 year old metric. Why , because they simply aren't worth it. Here's a fun fact for all the haters, a 15 year old Harley with it antiquated design and features, still sells for almost what it sold for new. A 15 year old metric throwaway bike is a parts bike.If this hurts your feelings well that's too bad. That's just the way it is. Waste your money any way you wan't, but be ready to hear truth. History doesn't lie.,,


Truth is, HD's quality is only skin deep....besides nice paint and nice chrome, they got nothin...


Wow!!! I just started reading this thread and here is grampi bashing Harleys. The man has more knowledge about bikes he doesn't like than the one he does. The Indian Scout does look like a M109.

 

[Ken2]

Harley value is high because Harley buyers like them above all others, and they'll pay the price. It does not represent quality. Modern Harley's are very good quality, but are they worth the price?...not for me. And, while Harley's often last a long time, many Harley riders parade their bikes more than they ride them. Slow group rides only on sunny days, lots of time spent in tavern parking lots, etc. A few Harley riders do really ride their bikes.

A fellow in my group was given a new speedometer by Suzuki for his V-Strom--the odometer stops reading at 199,999 miles. He's over 270,000 miles now, never inside the engine below the valve adjusters, just ordinary maintenance. There are very good bikes in many places, Harleys and metrics both.