Is new oil dirty ? Unfiltered ?

[max88]

Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
They certainly made a mountain out of what can be a mole hill car maintenance item.

Tilting the car towards the drain hole? Uh, no. Do this if you must, but the cost benefit has never been shown.

I did this all the times, for S2000 I get about 3-4 oz drain out after raising driver side up about 8-10". When I have time to kill why not having fun tilting the car ?


I could not get the last .25 quarts per change out of my Subaru, until I tried running the back end up onto a 2"x4" before draining. Worth it to me, since it costs nothing, and takes no extra effort.


My car's sump's total capacity is 4.8quarts. It drains 3.9quarts when on level surface. I drive it up to ramp and it drains 4.25quarts. More fresh oil is better for extended OCI.

 

[Garak]

I believe Jim Allen got some particle counts down on some virgin samples. It should be somewhere in the VOA section.

 

[Shannow]

Some years ago were having problems with some moog servovalves, and found that the particle counts on a new drum were orders of magnitude greater than they became in service...they had control orifices that were of the order of 0.0015"...we 5um filter everything that goes in before it gets either to a control component, or to a new filter.

Car engines, not so sure, and I've not had anything where I could really re-fill a filter, so have never felt the need...but I never desired to do it, and would not really have thought putting new oil on the clean side was ever a "good" idea...not a "harmful" idea, but e.g. on Chris's 2.5qt, I can see why you might want to.

Garak's post reminded my that member "Stinky Petersen" (RIP) did a whole heap of VOAs, with particle counts...and I saved a lot of screenshots of them.

Code:


Oil ISO Clean >75um >50um >25um (per Ml)

Cenex 15W40 23/17 2 9 115 (1)

Synlube TMS 10W30 20/15 0 0 9

Chevron 10W 18/13 0 1 16

Chevron 15W40 19/15 2 9 35

"Unispec" 20/17 0 4 177

Farmland 15W40 20/15 12 24 72 (2)

John Deere 10W30 19/13 0 2 9

Mobil 10W30 19/15 1 3 41 (3)

Mobil Delvac 15W40 22/16 1 4 50

Rotella 15W40 19/14 4 8 28 (4)

Royal Purple 5W30 18/14 0 8 28

Schaeffer 15W40 18/13 2 3 12

Mobil Delvac 1 20/14 0 1 19

Cat Deo 5W40 18/12 0 1 5 (5)

M1 0W40 21/16 1 2 54 (6)

M1 Truck SUV 21/15 1 1 16

Synergen 15W50 18/13 5 14 25

Mystic 5W30 17/13 1 2 7

Amsoil 15W40 19/16 1 6 64

Pennzoil 15W40 17/14 1 13 93 (7)






(1) contained metal flakes "not uncommon in new oil"
(2) contained 8 particles/ml over 100um (0.004"), with the comment that Caterpillar have an ISO 16/13 spec for new fill (and that most bottled oils don't make it).
(3) dust/debris seen in microscope, recommend filter before use.
(4) 2 particles per ml greater than 100um (0.004")
(5) One would assume that being Cat, it was pretty well filtered to suit their case.
(6) Noted small particles that appeared to be organic, possibly additives (...my comment, could they be filtered out ???)
(7) Noted that this oil has an additive that shows false Antifreeze.

Not trying to discourage you if you feel the need to fill.

Just a particle or two at 50-75um could give your UAO a trace of something that you don't want to see is all.

 

[Koz1]

Wow that's disturbing.
Thanks Shannow.
No prefill for me now.

 

[virginoil]

I used and still pre-fill from the late 70's to 2/3's full and then put the filter on the vehicle it was supposed to help the fresh oil circulate quicker after an oil change.

Rather than wait for the filter to fill completely. Some filters you cant fill anyway due to the angle the oil filter it is attached to the vehicle as it will leak out before it can be screwed on.

How much debris is there in 0.3L of fresh oil in a new filter anyway ?

With recycled used oil is this an issue ?

A BITOG OCD issue here.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
I ran across this site the other day. It advises against pre filling your oil filter as they say new oil is "unfiltered". I usually add oil to a filter before installation and always thought I was doing the right thing. Any thoughts?

http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/171


I would call it, "Underthinking."

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I would call it, "Underthinking."

The article has a few good points, but some serious "gems" in it. You probably didn't know this, Mola, but, "if you use Mobil do not switch to Valvoline or vice versa."

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
The filter you use to filter new oil is likely going to make the oil "dirtier" than before.

That may actually not be true although I would have initially agreed with you.

First you have to understand ISO cleanliness code ISO4406-1999)
https://www.hyprofiltration.com/clientuploads/directory/Knowledge/PDFs/ISO Intro.pdf


Turns out you should have say 17/16/13 (http://www.cashmanequipment.com/bently/publications/articles/1199white.php) and new oil is say 22/21/18. (http://www.harvardcorp.com/new-oil-filtration/?gclid=CJ6Jiq6lqsICFWVp7AodhiYAsw)
This is considerably dirtier than we would hope a filter eventually gets it.

But in the big picture the engine gettting a few ounces of "dirtier oil" is a tempest in a teapot. The filter will deliver 10's of thousands of gallons to the engine in an oil change interval.