Is Costco gasoline top tier?

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I also wish someone would strike this from Costco's FAQ:

Quote:
Q: What is octane, and is that the only difference between regular and premium unleaded gasoline?
A: Octane is a particular hydrocarbon that is part of all gasoline. The precise amount is determined at the refinery. Octane is not an additive to the fuel. Octane levels are the only difference between regular and premium unleaded gasoline sold at Costco.

The amount of octane controls how the fuel burns in your engine. Too little octane can cause knocking or pinging, which over time can harm your engine. Knocking and pinging results when the fuel pre-ignites in the cylinder, ahead of the spark plug ignition. Higher octane controls this pre-ignition.

Costco advises that you use the octane rating specified in your owner's manual. In fact, using regular unleaded gasoline in a car that specifies premium unleaded could void your vehicle warranty.
If you are using the specified fuel, and you are experiencing engine knock, please consult your auto care professional for a diagnosis of the problem.

This is just wrong on so many levels. "Octane level"? Did they at least go over this copy with one of their suppliers? It sure doesn't sound like it.

Someone should tell them that "octane rating" is simply based on a reference point where pure octane has a rating of 100, and the antiknock properties of the product fuel is compared to this reference point. I'm pretty sure it's possible to make gasoline with zero octane in it.
 
I'm sure Costco has good quality fuel, but my Accord for some reason gets worse gas mileage and has a rougher idle when I run it. I don't have such issues with any other station's gas. On the other hand, my other 2 cars often get Costco gas with no problems
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Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I'm pretty sure it's possible to make gasoline with zero octane in it.


Doubtful unless youre using some highly purified specialty chemical. C8 (octane in the chemical sense) is a component.

Here is pure octane in a gas chromatograph:

C8CLEANFID.jpg


Here is 87 octane gasoline. Each of those peaks is a different component, or an isomer of a specific chemical formula. C8 is in there with the isomers in the 3-3.5 minute range...

I doped this one with C8:

87ODOPEDFID.jpg


And here is the gas by itself:

87OFID.jpg


To the right on the x axis is heavier hydrocarbons, higher intensity is more mass of a specific compound.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I'm pretty sure it's possible to make gasoline with zero octane in it.


Doubtful unless youre using some highly purified specialty chemical. C8 (octane in the chemical sense) is a component.

Here is pure octane in a gas chromatograph:

C8CLEANFID.jpg


Here is 87 octane gasoline. Each of those peaks is a different component, or an isomer of a specific chemical formula. C8 is in there with the isomers in the 3-3.5 minute range...

I doped this one with C8:

87ODOPEDFID.jpg


And here is the gas by itself:

87OFID.jpg


To the right on the x axis is heavier hydrocarbons, higher intensity is more mass of a specific compound.

Perhaps you're right in a sense that it's impossible to absolutely remove anything in a production process designed to be profitable selling pump fuel. However, Costco's FAQ erroneously equates antiknock ability with the **level** of octane in it. Octane rating doesn't have a direct correlation with octane level.

I remember seeing an MSDS for Sunoco's 100 octane unleaded racing fuel. It stated 2-10% alkanes, which could include octane.

However, my point was that it would be possible (although not practical) to isolate all octane from a particular gasoline blend, and it would still have an octane **rating** as we understand it with regards to antiknock.
 
I know. Their terminology is incorrect for octane (the chemical) vs octane (the term indicative of AKI). Just saying, C8 as a compound is present and will always be, even with an F-T fuel or other stock.
 
The only thing Top Tier about Costco gas around here, are the lineups at any time of the day for it.

It baffles me that people would line up, idling for 30minutes just to save a few cents/L.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I know. Their terminology is incorrect for octane (the chemical) vs octane (the term indicative of AKI). Just saying, C8 as a compound is present and will always be, even with an F-T fuel or other stock.

But what I was getting at is that Costco's verbiage is clearly irrelevant.

'Octane levels are the only difference between regular and premium unleaded gasoline sold at Costco."

"The amount of octane controls how the fuel burns in your engine."

"Too little octane can cause knocking or pinging...."

It clearly displays either a lack of understanding by the person who wrote it, or it's intentionally written in a way to overly simplify things in a clearly erroneous manner. Octane itself is going to be a minor component in any finished gasoline, and the octane rating has far more to do with the components that aren't octane.
 
Originally Posted By: jrustles
The only thing Top Tier about Costco gas around here, are the lineups at any time of the day for it.

It baffles me that people would line up, idling for 30minutes just to save a few cents/L.

I filled up yesterday on the way to work. About 9 AM and no line. This is one of the stations that displays the Clean Power signs. I've also filled up at lunch time and found an unused pump immediately. I've also seen lines around the block. It depends. I see long lines at some name brand gas stations with lower prices too.

However, they've got the ideal setup. They don't have cashiers who are busy stocking the convenience store or handling customers. The employees are always on hand and are monitoring the condition of the pumps and (unlike the flunky behind the cash register) they're authorized to replace the filters. They have ridiculously high turnover, so you're not worried about 2 week old fuel in their tanks. Raw fuel is essentially a commodity these days and you'd be hard pressed to say any producer makes a "better" product, especially when they trade when there are shortages.
 
Originally Posted By: jrustles
The only thing Top Tier about Costco gas around here, are the lineups at any time of the day for it.

It baffles me that people would line up, idling for 30minutes just to save a few cents/L.


They have lines here too unless you get there at the right time, but to be honest, the lines move pretty quickly most of the time. Usually the wait is only a few minutes, since it is all pay at the pump - with no convenience store, people don't park for 10 minutes at a pump while they stock up on snacks, beer, lottery tickets and cigarettes (or even worse, park at the pump and go in and eat a whole meal if there's a McDonald's or some other fast food restaurant).

The biggest thing I like about Costco's gas is that they sell a lot (so you know it is fresh) and do a good job with maintaining their pumps. I buy most of my gas there, and have never had any fuel system problems, so whatever detergent additives they are using must be doing the job.
 
Originally Posted By: jim302
Originally Posted By: jrustles
The only thing Top Tier about Costco gas around here, are the lineups at any time of the day for it.

It baffles me that people would line up, idling for 30minutes just to save a few cents/L.


They have lines here too unless you get there at the right time, but to be honest, the lines move pretty quickly most of the time. Usually the wait is only a few minutes, since it is all pay at the pump - with no convenience store, people don't park for 10 minutes at a pump while they stock up on snacks, beer, lottery tickets and cigarettes (or even worse, park at the pump and go in and eat a whole meal if there's a McDonald's or some other fast food restaurant).

The biggest thing I like about Costco's gas is that they sell a lot (so you know it is fresh) and do a good job with maintaining their pumps. I buy most of my gas there, and have never had any fuel system problems, so whatever detergent additives they are using must be doing the job.

The current mandated EPA level of detergent additive is probably adequate for most vehicles. There might have been issues years ago when the amount could be all over the map.

The biggest issues I have at gas stations is the chaotic nature of filling up, especially when customers are paying in cash. The ones with cash prices especially have those issues. If you've got one cashier and 5 people in line, that's multiple cars sitting at the pumps for minutes. Recently I got in line at a Valero station with a cash price, and the woman in front of me had the cashier count out something like a $20 and $34 in soggy $1 bills. While I suppose some also have debit prices, they can also have debit fees. You get people lining up in different directions, and sometimes being blocked by narrow lanes without enough room to pass between cars. The one way nature of Costco gas stations and their typical wide lanes with two pumps per side of an island means easy in and out. Some Costcos have 6 or 7 islands.

I know some gas stations that have one way designations, but I see it being ignored a lot. At Costco the attendant will tell you to leave if you do that and shut off the pump until you do. There's a fairly well known independent around here with racing fuel, and that place can get silly since some people stop at the single pump with race fuel and that blocks the 3 pumps ahead of it. And on top of that they charge 10 cents more per gallon for credit cards and a debit card fee of 40 cents, so most pay cash.
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
There's a fairly well known independent around here with racing fuel, and that place can get silly since some people stop at the single pump with race fuel and that blocks the 3 pumps ahead of it. And on top of that they charge 10 cents more per gallon for credit cards and a debit card fee of 40 cents, so most pay cash.

Are you referring to the one in Sunol/Andrade exit of I680?
Kevin
 
Originally Posted By: ag_ghost
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
There's a fairly well known independent around here with racing fuel, and that place can get silly since some people stop at the single pump with race fuel and that blocks the 3 pumps ahead of it. And on top of that they charge 10 cents more per gallon for credit cards and a debit card fee of 40 cents, so most pay cash.

Are you referring to the one in Sunol/Andrade exit of I680?
Kevin

Yup. Sunol Super Stop. Well known for having some of the lowest prices in the area and for that one pump with 100 octane unleaded and likely a blending pump that produces 94/96/98. Sometimes if someone's trying to use the race gas pump there are three pumps ahead of it that might be unused.
 
Someone mentioned a presentation.

http://www.calcupa.org/presentations/CUP...ne_additive.pdf

Apparently not a custom additive, but they say it's UltraZol 9888 from Lubrizol. It's probably easier for them to buy a good off the shelf package that's already EPA registered. They just slapped their own trademarked name.

They're also only doing this at certain locations with the infrastructure, like pipes and tanks to hold the additive and mix into the fuel. If it were something just dumped from a bottle, that would be something they could do at any location with a gas station. There were a lot of reports of certain Costco gas stations being dug up around 2011. This was probably what they were doing.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I know. Their terminology is incorrect for octane (the chemical) vs octane (the term indicative of AKI). Just saying, C8 as a compound is present and will always be, even with an F-T fuel or other stock.

I looked into what "octane rating" actually means, and maybe they were on to something regarding the way octane rating is measured, but they flubbed the delivery.

Apparently what octane rating is is the antiknock ability compared to a reference fuel made solely of iso-octane and n-heptane. So an RON octane of 95 is compared to a reference fuel of 95% iso-octane and 5% n-heptane. But of course we know that most pump fuel isn't just those two components. Now I'm not quite sure how they measure anything over 100, but I'm guessing there are ways.

Now I don't suppose anyone could actually sell a purely iso-octane and n-heptane fuel profitably to the average motorist.
 
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Not official but they have developed their own detergent system that goes beyond keep clean and are rolling it out nationwide.

See Kirkland Clean Power on their website.

The detergent gets mixed at the station and is remotely monitored.


TrevorS,

Can't wait until Los Angeles get there allotment of this new formula. Currently I still wonder where the L.A.'s brand comes from.

Durango
 
Originally Posted By: Durango
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Not official but they have developed their own detergent system that goes beyond keep clean and are rolling it out nationwide.

See Kirkland Clean Power on their website.

The detergent gets mixed at the station and is remotely monitored.


TrevorS,

Can't wait until Los Angeles get there allotment of this new formula. Currently I still wonder where the L.A.'s brand comes from.

Durango

There are a few Costco locations in Southern California with this, but the rollout seems to be slow. I believe part of the issue is that they have to close the station for a few days to install the tanks and equipment. They might also need to get local permits. They claim that the rollout should be complete in California by 2014.

Quote:
https://www.neiwpcc.org/tanksconference/...013_Tuesday.pdf

372 U.S. Costco fuel facilities
296 Clean Power installations
We’ll finish our rollout in California in 2014

Now I suppose they did it their way to save costs and for more control over the process. My understanding about the way that most fuel deliveries is that fuel is typically sent to commodity holding tanks at various terminals. In California it will usually be piped in. A lot of these are located near refineries, which makes sense. Then "branded" fuel will have its own holding tank for its specified detergent additive. There might be a "generic" detergent additive tank that can be purchased and is guaranteed to meet EPA (or CARB) requirements. The Costco stations that haven't had the new equipment installed will still be getting a detergent additive at the terminal.

I'm thinking that they're probably saving money because the driver doesn't have to load the additive and because they don't have to pay for "additized" gasoline. Costco claims that most of their additive holding tanks are 1500 gallon fiberglass, and that a typical Costco gas station might need less than 3000 gallons of the additive per year at the specified treat rate. They've got one photo of a dub up site where they're installing the tanks and piping. It's a 1500 gallon tank that's absolutely dwarfed by the fuel tanks. The photo is in the presentation, but I can't inline link just the photo.
 
kind of an old thread I know, but I was filling up at Costco today and saw the sign stating it was top tier so I did a search, and it is now listed as Top Tier gas

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

around here its 5 to 10 or more cheaper than most gas stations, and within a couple of cents of Sams or other discount gas stations.
 
Originally Posted By: enrayged
kind of an old thread I know, but I was filling up at Costco today and saw the sign stating it was top tier so I did a search, and it is now listed as Top Tier gas

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

around here its 5 to 10 or more cheaper than most gas stations, and within a couple of cents of Sams or other discount gas stations.



Wow! Thanks for the link. That's the only place I buy my gas when I am near home, nice to know it's now an officially approved Top Tier fuel.
 
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