I was wondering why more wheels don't get balanced with the weights on the inside part of the rim where it wouldn't make the outer visible part (while mounted) look less attractive.
Inner wheel weights
- Thread starter mjoekingz28
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Wheel weights go on the inside or outside based on how the wheel needs balanced. A wheel cannot always be properly balanced with only weights on the inside of the barrel.
The outside weights are cheaper, that's why.
It usually take 50% more weight and time to properly dynamic balance the wheel using tape weights behind the wheel face, and most newer wheels you can't even hammer a weight on the outside. Cheap, quick easy way is one weight on the inside flange which is a static balance, and hope you don't come back.
Giving OP the benefit of the doubt that he understands inside and outside weights
he might be talking about using stick on weights that can at least hide on the inside of the wheel, versus the clip on weights that are seen on the outer rim or cheaper steel tires.
that question
depends on the shop. ultimately the stick on weights are slightly more expensive and maybe more prone to coming off than clip on weightd and you nees more weight to balance.
if you have steelies and you want stick on weights instead of clip ons, you make a request to the shop and maybe at most they charge you an extra $1 for it, or often no extra charge
he might be talking about using stick on weights that can at least hide on the inside of the wheel, versus the clip on weights that are seen on the outer rim or cheaper steel tires.
that question
depends on the shop. ultimately the stick on weights are slightly more expensive and maybe more prone to coming off than clip on weightd and you nees more weight to balance.
if you have steelies and you want stick on weights instead of clip ons, you make a request to the shop and maybe at most they charge you an extra $1 for it, or often no extra charge
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Are you talking about clip-on weights? I haven't had a car that used those in a long time.
Originally Posted By: raytseng
wheel, versus the clip on weights that are seen on the outer rim or cheaper steel tires.
Since when are tires made of steel and not rubber?
wheel, versus the clip on weights that are seen on the outer rim or cheaper steel tires.
Since when are tires made of steel and not rubber?
Originally Posted By: rsylvstr
... Since when are tires made of steel and not rubber?
When they're on train wheels.
... Since when are tires made of steel and not rubber?
When they're on train wheels.
Veering off course here, but....
A tire guy I trusted said of his stick-on wheel weights, "These are the good ones from Canada" (those wholesome Canadians).
The weak link is the slob working at a tire place who doesn't clean the spot the weight is supposed to land.
Plus, those stick-ons are lower and require more real estate.
Plus, whenever did you see a tire installed turn a tire on a wheel to get the assembly closer to initial balance?
A tire guy I trusted said of his stick-on wheel weights, "These are the good ones from Canada" (those wholesome Canadians).
The weak link is the slob working at a tire place who doesn't clean the spot the weight is supposed to land.
Plus, those stick-ons are lower and require more real estate.
Plus, whenever did you see a tire installed turn a tire on a wheel to get the assembly closer to initial balance?
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
I was wondering why more wheels don't get balanced with the weights on the inside part of the rim where it wouldn't make the outer visible part (while mounted) look less attractive.
It's a little unclear what you are asking.
Are you asking about putting balance weights on the backside flange only? If so, then that is not only just static balance, but it hurts dynamic balance.
But if you are asking why not use the flat portion of the wheel and not the flanges, they already do, but it requires tape on weights, which are a little more difficult to use.
I was wondering why more wheels don't get balanced with the weights on the inside part of the rim where it wouldn't make the outer visible part (while mounted) look less attractive.
It's a little unclear what you are asking.
Are you asking about putting balance weights on the backside flange only? If so, then that is not only just static balance, but it hurts dynamic balance.
But if you are asking why not use the flat portion of the wheel and not the flanges, they already do, but it requires tape on weights, which are a little more difficult to use.
You are supposed to use the type of weight the wheel is designed to use. If the rim is designed for a hammer on weight on the outside of the rim, you should be using the proper hammer on weights. Although, I have not seen a car built in a LONG time that uses hammer on weights on an alloy rim.
The OEMs have been moving to "flush" face wheels for the last 10 years - gone are the days of lipped wheels that a weight can clip onto.
I have the provisions for clipped weights - if I remove the trim rings.
I have the provisions for clipped weights - if I remove the trim rings.
CapriRacer thanks for verifying that you dont understand what I am asking.
I dont understand what you mean by static and dynamic balances, but here is my question again.
Think old school weights that you hammer to the circumference of the wheel to make the tire/wheel combo balanced. This is usually done on the 'visible' portion that when you are checking out someone's car it causes quite the eyesore, esp. with chrome wheels. I am wondering do you ever see ANY wheel weights when they could simply be hammered to the 'other' side of the wheel that is only visible from under the car.
Btw, I originally had this thought on my first truck when I was getting new tires put on chrome wheels. i asked the tire shop to put the weights on the 'other' side of the wheel so the chrome wheels wouldn't have wheel weights being an eyesore. I just wonder why this is not commonplace.
Btw, I just checked my aftermarket alloys that are sitting on my porch and there is both a weight hammered onto the outer facing rim edge AND a stick on weight on the inner facing 'tub' .
I dont understand what you mean by static and dynamic balances, but here is my question again.
Think old school weights that you hammer to the circumference of the wheel to make the tire/wheel combo balanced. This is usually done on the 'visible' portion that when you are checking out someone's car it causes quite the eyesore, esp. with chrome wheels. I am wondering do you ever see ANY wheel weights when they could simply be hammered to the 'other' side of the wheel that is only visible from under the car.
Btw, I originally had this thought on my first truck when I was getting new tires put on chrome wheels. i asked the tire shop to put the weights on the 'other' side of the wheel so the chrome wheels wouldn't have wheel weights being an eyesore. I just wonder why this is not commonplace.
Btw, I just checked my aftermarket alloys that are sitting on my porch and there is both a weight hammered onto the outer facing rim edge AND a stick on weight on the inner facing 'tub' .
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Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
CapriRacer thanks for verifying that you dont understand what I am asking.
I dont understand what you mean by static and dynamic balances, but here is my question again.
Think old school weights that you hammer to the circumference of the wheel to make the tire/wheel combo balanced. This is usually done on the 'visible' portion that when you are checking out someone's car it causes quite the eyesore, esp. with chrome wheels. I am wondering do you ever see ANY wheel weights when they could simply be hammered to the 'other' side of the wheel that is only visible from under the car.
Btw, I originally had this thought on my first truck when I was getting new tires put on chrome wheels. i asked the tire shop to put the weights on the 'other' side of the wheel so the chrome wheels wouldn't have wheel weights being an eyesore. I just wonder why this is not commonplace.
The weights just on the inside are a static balance while weights on both sides are a dynamic balance.
CapriRacer thanks for verifying that you dont understand what I am asking.
I dont understand what you mean by static and dynamic balances, but here is my question again.
Think old school weights that you hammer to the circumference of the wheel to make the tire/wheel combo balanced. This is usually done on the 'visible' portion that when you are checking out someone's car it causes quite the eyesore, esp. with chrome wheels. I am wondering do you ever see ANY wheel weights when they could simply be hammered to the 'other' side of the wheel that is only visible from under the car.
Btw, I originally had this thought on my first truck when I was getting new tires put on chrome wheels. i asked the tire shop to put the weights on the 'other' side of the wheel so the chrome wheels wouldn't have wheel weights being an eyesore. I just wonder why this is not commonplace.
The weights just on the inside are a static balance while weights on both sides are a dynamic balance.
Now when I was taught how to use the Hunter road force balancer, there was a mode you could do for alloys that indicated to the machine where the spokes of the wheel were and you could hide the weights behind the spokes. It made for a balance that required more weights for it to be effective.
Bdcardinal, I tried reading about those two types (dynamic and static) on wiki.
When I took shop and what Ive assumed always pretty much is that there is only one thing you can do to a tire/wheel. You put it on the spinning machine, let it run, then line it up with the pointer, and then place the weight there on the outer flange.... Then you let the machine spin it again hoping that it zeroes out this time.
So, I guess that is for rotational balance, but are you saying there is a side to side or left to right kind of balance.
It is kind of obvious this is new to me and an unknown, so please consider that when explaining!
When I took shop and what Ive assumed always pretty much is that there is only one thing you can do to a tire/wheel. You put it on the spinning machine, let it run, then line it up with the pointer, and then place the weight there on the outer flange.... Then you let the machine spin it again hoping that it zeroes out this time.
So, I guess that is for rotational balance, but are you saying there is a side to side or left to right kind of balance.
It is kind of obvious this is new to me and an unknown, so please consider that when explaining!
Ok, I just viewed a really insightful video. As stated there is static and dynamic. One makes sure the tire is balanced in round and the other side to side. I did not know this.
I thought it was neat that his balancer could tell him to place the weight on the inner or outer flange of the wheel. I did not know the machine accounted for inner/outer type imbalances and I cannot really perceive how it can make a difference on the car the way a circular/rotational imbalance can.
But none the less, thanks !!!
I thought it was neat that his balancer could tell him to place the weight on the inner or outer flange of the wheel. I did not know the machine accounted for inner/outer type imbalances and I cannot really perceive how it can make a difference on the car the way a circular/rotational imbalance can.
But none the less, thanks !!!
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Ok, I just viewed a really insightful video. As stated there is static and dynamic. One makes sure the tire is balanced in round and the other side to side. I did not know this.
I thought it was neat that his balancer could tell him to place the weight on the inner or outer flange of the wheel. I did not know the machine accounted for inner/outer type imbalances and I cannot really perceive how it can make a difference on the car the way a circular/rotational imbalance can.
But none the less, thanks !!!
For dynamic imbalance, imagine you are driving along very slowly, every time one point of the tire is at the front of the car, somebody gives the sidewall a kick, then every time that same spot is towards the back of the car, somebody kicked it from the inside. Now imagine this happening every time the tire rotates at 500 RPM. That is a tire out of dynamic balance.
It actually gets a lot more complicated than just static and dynamic imbalance, there are also second and third harmonics of the primary balance of both, plus the roadforce. If you have two wheel weights on the outside of the rim across from each other, it may be eliminating the primary static balance, but it will increase the second harmonic of the static balance. The different harmonics act just like the primary balances, but at higher speeds, and not as strong.
When we have a vibration issue these days, we often have to go in an try and minimise the second harmonics to solve it. New Hunter machines that we use have this capability. Real PITA though.
Ok, I just viewed a really insightful video. As stated there is static and dynamic. One makes sure the tire is balanced in round and the other side to side. I did not know this.
I thought it was neat that his balancer could tell him to place the weight on the inner or outer flange of the wheel. I did not know the machine accounted for inner/outer type imbalances and I cannot really perceive how it can make a difference on the car the way a circular/rotational imbalance can.
But none the less, thanks !!!
For dynamic imbalance, imagine you are driving along very slowly, every time one point of the tire is at the front of the car, somebody gives the sidewall a kick, then every time that same spot is towards the back of the car, somebody kicked it from the inside. Now imagine this happening every time the tire rotates at 500 RPM. That is a tire out of dynamic balance.
It actually gets a lot more complicated than just static and dynamic imbalance, there are also second and third harmonics of the primary balance of both, plus the roadforce. If you have two wheel weights on the outside of the rim across from each other, it may be eliminating the primary static balance, but it will increase the second harmonic of the static balance. The different harmonics act just like the primary balances, but at higher speeds, and not as strong.
When we have a vibration issue these days, we often have to go in an try and minimise the second harmonics to solve it. New Hunter machines that we use have this capability. Real PITA though.
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Just so everyone understands:
Static balance assumes that the tire is unbalanced evenly side to side, where dynamic balance doesn't.
Also, the further away the weights are from the center of the wheel - both in the radial direction and the lateral direction - the more effective that weight is. Put another way: If you put the weights on the rim flat - as opposed to the rim flange - you will need to weight to get the same level of balance.
In theory, you could mount the weights on the tread surface and even less weight would be required. (but I do not know how you would do that!)
Static balance assumes that the tire is unbalanced evenly side to side, where dynamic balance doesn't.
Also, the further away the weights are from the center of the wheel - both in the radial direction and the lateral direction - the more effective that weight is. Put another way: If you put the weights on the rim flat - as opposed to the rim flange - you will need to weight to get the same level of balance.
In theory, you could mount the weights on the tread surface and even less weight would be required. (but I do not know how you would do that!)
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