If thin oil is so good...
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@ tig 1
Give us rpms @ wich your At shifts...Give us rpms on highway...
And most of all Give us your HP/liter output of your Ford And then compare it with your lawnmover
And then we Will know why...
Give us rpms @ wich your At shifts...Give us rpms on highway...
And most of all Give us your HP/liter output of your Ford And then compare it with your lawnmover
And then we Will know why...
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Ifixyawata
My takeaway from the weekly to bi-weekly thick vs thin threads here:
1.) xw-20 is water (even though the thinnest of the thin TGMO 0w-20 looks to be about 10x thicker than water at 100C)
2.) Companies like Ford and Honda who first specced this devil fluid are only doing it because they are large corrupt corporations who only want to bow to appease the mighty CAFE standards and do not care to produce vehicles that will outlast the powertrain warranty period.
3.) Any arguments about Ford modulars running 250k+ on 5w-20 are invalid. These engines would have irrefutably lasted longer on 'better' oil.
4.) Run 10w-40 minimum and change it every 3k and your engine will love you.
Post of the year!
My takeaway from the weekly to bi-weekly thick vs thin threads here:
1.) xw-20 is water (even though the thinnest of the thin TGMO 0w-20 looks to be about 10x thicker than water at 100C)
2.) Companies like Ford and Honda who first specced this devil fluid are only doing it because they are large corrupt corporations who only want to bow to appease the mighty CAFE standards and do not care to produce vehicles that will outlast the powertrain warranty period.
3.) Any arguments about Ford modulars running 250k+ on 5w-20 are invalid. These engines would have irrefutably lasted longer on 'better' oil.
4.) Run 10w-40 minimum and change it every 3k and your engine will love you.
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
@ tig 1
Give us rpms @ wich your At shifts...Give us rpms on highway...
And most of all Give us your HP/liter output of your Ford And then compare it with your lawnmover
And then we Will know why...
What?
@ tig 1
Give us rpms @ wich your At shifts...Give us rpms on highway...
And most of all Give us your HP/liter output of your Ford And then compare it with your lawnmover
And then we Will know why...
What?
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Makes no sense.
Originally Posted By: Ifixyawata
My takeaway from the weekly to bi-weekly thick vs thin threads here:
1.) xw-20 is water (even though the thinnest of the thin TGMO 0w-20 looks to be about 10x thicker than water at 100C)
2.) Companies like Ford and Honda who first specced this devil fluid are only doing it because they are large corrupt corporations who only want to bow to appease the mighty CAFE standards and do not care to produce vehicles that will outlast the powertrain warranty period.
3.) Any arguments about Ford modulars running 250k+ on 5w-20 are invalid. These engines would have irrefutably lasted longer on 'better' oil.
4.) Run 10w-40 minimum and change it every 3k and your engine will love you.
I think weekly to bi-weekly is being too generous...it's daily in various forms. You forgot to add that if the Paraguayan owners manual says to use 5w-30 and the American manual says 5w-20 it's clear proof that the manufacturer has it in for the American consumer..independent of the whether the quality of the gas is different, the engine was designed for this grade, or any other potential differentiator. After all, it's evidently NOT true that direct injection vehicles are only imported into markets where the fuel quality is sufficient to handle it. Putting 10w-40 in the crankcase eliminates that problem immediately no doubt. It's all about "protection" isn't it???
If valve tappets and piston rings are coated with DNC or other new anti-friction coatings in newer cars, then they have zero impact on longevity of these parts...but if we can only respond to 70s engine technology, then we'll feel that much better in knowing that an additional 100K miles is ours with 5w-30 or 10w-30 in these same engines...that's because longevity and gas mileage is ONLY related to the oil grade being used.
My takeaway from the weekly to bi-weekly thick vs thin threads here:
1.) xw-20 is water (even though the thinnest of the thin TGMO 0w-20 looks to be about 10x thicker than water at 100C)
2.) Companies like Ford and Honda who first specced this devil fluid are only doing it because they are large corrupt corporations who only want to bow to appease the mighty CAFE standards and do not care to produce vehicles that will outlast the powertrain warranty period.
3.) Any arguments about Ford modulars running 250k+ on 5w-20 are invalid. These engines would have irrefutably lasted longer on 'better' oil.
4.) Run 10w-40 minimum and change it every 3k and your engine will love you.
I think weekly to bi-weekly is being too generous...it's daily in various forms. You forgot to add that if the Paraguayan owners manual says to use 5w-30 and the American manual says 5w-20 it's clear proof that the manufacturer has it in for the American consumer..independent of the whether the quality of the gas is different, the engine was designed for this grade, or any other potential differentiator. After all, it's evidently NOT true that direct injection vehicles are only imported into markets where the fuel quality is sufficient to handle it. Putting 10w-40 in the crankcase eliminates that problem immediately no doubt. It's all about "protection" isn't it???
If valve tappets and piston rings are coated with DNC or other new anti-friction coatings in newer cars, then they have zero impact on longevity of these parts...but if we can only respond to 70s engine technology, then we'll feel that much better in knowing that an additional 100K miles is ours with 5w-30 or 10w-30 in these same engines...that's because longevity and gas mileage is ONLY related to the oil grade being used.
Originally Posted By: tig1
What?
What?
Cars are personal. We buy them because we like them (mostly). We like the looks, the feel, the sound, what-ever...
Some of the stuff going down the road looks hideous to me (Nissan Leaf, Juke, etc.), but some looks beautiful, and I'm sure is very nice (Bentley Coupe) - but that's just me.
Since a car (or truck) is personal, it gets what I want to give it. It gets the gas I want to feed it, the tires I want, and the oil I want to run. It gets shifted when I decide to, etc.
Driverless cars will get what fleet manager wants based on bottom line and testing. If 0W-20 is best at overall return on value for the firm, that's what it'll get. I'm not a firm. I don't have a board (I do have a wife...) and I tune my stuff myself for the way I want it to run. That includes my choice of oil ...
I quit putting 20W-50 in high mileage vehicles a while back. I've now joined the thin oil crowd at 15W-40, and for real getter's, 10W-30 (for that extra power
)...
Come on, use your eyes, ears, and other senses to determine YOUR likes in engine performance - it's YOUR car ...
Some of the stuff going down the road looks hideous to me (Nissan Leaf, Juke, etc.), but some looks beautiful, and I'm sure is very nice (Bentley Coupe) - but that's just me.
Since a car (or truck) is personal, it gets what I want to give it. It gets the gas I want to feed it, the tires I want, and the oil I want to run. It gets shifted when I decide to, etc.
Driverless cars will get what fleet manager wants based on bottom line and testing. If 0W-20 is best at overall return on value for the firm, that's what it'll get. I'm not a firm. I don't have a board (I do have a wife...) and I tune my stuff myself for the way I want it to run. That includes my choice of oil ...
I quit putting 20W-50 in high mileage vehicles a while back. I've now joined the thin oil crowd at 15W-40, and for real getter's, 10W-30 (for that extra power
Come on, use your eyes, ears, and other senses to determine YOUR likes in engine performance - it's YOUR car ...
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Originally Posted By: Ifixyawata
3.) Any arguments about Ford modulars running 250k+ on 5w-20 are invalid. These engines would have irrefutably lasted longer on 'better' oil.
Which of course, sort of poses an indirect argument (from both sides), that Ford modular engines are very durable and dependable engines.*
*But oh, stupid coil over plugs... just, why?
~ Triton
3.) Any arguments about Ford modulars running 250k+ on 5w-20 are invalid. These engines would have irrefutably lasted longer on 'better' oil.
Which of course, sort of poses an indirect argument (from both sides), that Ford modular engines are very durable and dependable engines.*
*But oh, stupid coil over plugs... just, why?
~ Triton
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Originally Posted By: tig1
What?
Do they speak English in what?
When I see these threads, the ones that attempt to poke holes in the thin oil reasoning, I have to wonder why of why can't we all just get along. I guess I'm a 'thinnie' in that I've been using the specified 5w-20 in both of my fords since I got them last year. I'm not so bent on using thin oils that I didn't scarf up good az deals on 0w-30s. I don't feel like I always have to use 20 grade oils but I'm certainly not opposed to bumping up to a 30 on a deal.
It's like the thick crowd feels that the thin crowd is headed down a treacherous path of folly that will certainly lead to thrown rods and wiped off cam lobes. While the thin crowd views the thickies as old timers who would be likely seen pouring SJ SAE 40 into the crankcases of new cars.
I see both sides of the argument but anecdotal evidences like butt dynos, engine sounds, the color, smell, taste of the oil mean nothing to me. VOAs/PDSs and UOAs mean more to me, though I can understand how testimonials can make a person feel better.
In the grand scheme of things I think we're all over thinking everything.
Originally Posted By: tig1
What?
Do they speak English in what?
When I see these threads, the ones that attempt to poke holes in the thin oil reasoning, I have to wonder why of why can't we all just get along. I guess I'm a 'thinnie' in that I've been using the specified 5w-20 in both of my fords since I got them last year. I'm not so bent on using thin oils that I didn't scarf up good az deals on 0w-30s. I don't feel like I always have to use 20 grade oils but I'm certainly not opposed to bumping up to a 30 on a deal.
It's like the thick crowd feels that the thin crowd is headed down a treacherous path of folly that will certainly lead to thrown rods and wiped off cam lobes. While the thin crowd views the thickies as old timers who would be likely seen pouring SJ SAE 40 into the crankcases of new cars.
I see both sides of the argument but anecdotal evidences like butt dynos, engine sounds, the color, smell, taste of the oil mean nothing to me. VOAs/PDSs and UOAs mean more to me, though I can understand how testimonials can make a person feel better.
In the grand scheme of things I think we're all over thinking everything.
Thin oils is very good! It volatises, leaks out the seals and specially burn in past the rings, past the valve seals... They disapear way more than thick! Need reiterated refilling! Are expensive and helps to destroy engines. Chinese business, as we call. Great for the producers and sellers!
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Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
@ tig 1
Give us rpms @ wich your At shifts...Give us rpms on highway...
And most of all Give us your HP/liter output of your Ford And then compare it with your lawnmover
And then we Will know why...
What?
The reason he said that are for these reasons (and possibly more):
He is working backwards in terms of what oil can do your car and operating from the standpoint in reverse namely what your car (Design characteristics) can do for your oil.
RPMs heat up oil
Shifting determines what gear you are in mostly and also affects RPMS and RPMs on the highway are generally from high to higher
HP/liter determine how hard your engine has to work in relation to its weight etc and will help decide if your power comes from high RPM or low RPM etc..
AmIRight?
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Thin oils is very good! It volatises, leaks out the seals and specially burn in past the rings, past the valve seals... They disapear way more than thick! Need reiterated refilling! Are expensive and helps to destroy engines. Chinese business, as we call. Great for the producers and sellers!
aha, so that is why we don't want to consume or burn any oil but what about a chassis or application that uses thin oil but doesn't burn or consume any oil? Does it still do what you state above?
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
@ tig 1
Give us rpms @ wich your At shifts...Give us rpms on highway...
And most of all Give us your HP/liter output of your Ford And then compare it with your lawnmover
And then we Will know why...
What?
The reason he said that are for these reasons (and possibly more):
He is working backwards in terms of what oil can do your car and operating from the standpoint in reverse namely what your car (Design characteristics) can do for your oil.
RPMs heat up oil
Shifting determines what gear you are in mostly and also affects RPMS and RPMs on the highway are generally from high to higher
HP/liter determine how hard your engine has to work in relation to its weight etc and will help decide if your power comes from high RPM or low RPM etc..
AmIRight?
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Thin oils is very good! It volatises, leaks out the seals and specially burn in past the rings, past the valve seals... They disapear way more than thick! Need reiterated refilling! Are expensive and helps to destroy engines. Chinese business, as we call. Great for the producers and sellers!
aha, so that is why we don't want to consume or burn any oil but what about a chassis or application that uses thin oil but doesn't burn or consume any oil? Does it still do what you state above?
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Ahaha Then try a qt. of PYB 10w30 to smooth out the ranges?
I noticed that modern cars are able to keep to lower revs for a given speed compared to low capacity engine (1.3L) cars from the 70s and 80s. Since these new engines only spin about 2000 to 2500rpm at highway speeds, 20wts will do fine since the bulk oil temp probably doesn't go beyond 90 C.
Contrast that to my 1980s econobox, during the night, I can keep bulk oil temps at not more than 90 C driving home from work, at 2500 rpm at a speed of 80km/h. If I drive to work in the mornings, at same speed and RPM that temp goes to 92C. Increase the rpm to 3000 and it stays at 96C. Go to 3500 rpm (120km/h) it goes to 106 C.
I see these modern econoboxes do 120km/h at less than 3000rpm.
Currently I use 5W-40 or 10W-40 oil. I think I can get away with an ILSAC GF-5 10W-30 or 5W-30 if I had a thermostatic oil cooler that forces the oil temp down at least 5 C - 10 C at such rpm.
Contrast that to my 1980s econobox, during the night, I can keep bulk oil temps at not more than 90 C driving home from work, at 2500 rpm at a speed of 80km/h. If I drive to work in the mornings, at same speed and RPM that temp goes to 92C. Increase the rpm to 3000 and it stays at 96C. Go to 3500 rpm (120km/h) it goes to 106 C.
I see these modern econoboxes do 120km/h at less than 3000rpm.
Currently I use 5W-40 or 10W-40 oil. I think I can get away with an ILSAC GF-5 10W-30 or 5W-30 if I had a thermostatic oil cooler that forces the oil temp down at least 5 C - 10 C at such rpm.
Why won't 0W-20 work in a Freightliner diesel ?
I dare all you guys to come up with a one sentence answer.
I dare all you guys to come up with a one sentence answer.
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
We (here in EU) have similar thing here happening......EU comission wants to lower overall fuel consumption in EU......therefore they are advocating use of thinner oils....
Ex standard was sae40 oil ( 15w40, 10w40, 5w40)
And new standard is now sae30 ( 5w30, other grades are for use in agricultural equipement
)
We are getting some 5w20 and 0w20 [censored] ( ACEA of course)......but that is mainly intended for use in hybrids....
I dont belive that thinner oils will go along with our downsized turbo engines....no way that they will work in long term
So the EU is moving from the early 'seventies straight into the early 'nineties?
Who would have thought that the Eurocrats could move that far in only a few decades, since we're now in 2016 and the rest of the developed world has already gone beyond?
Europe has been slow in realizing the benefits of lower viscosity oils just as it has been in recognizing the benefits of many technical advancements in the rest of the developed world.
Good to know that you're catching up.
We (here in EU) have similar thing here happening......EU comission wants to lower overall fuel consumption in EU......therefore they are advocating use of thinner oils....
Ex standard was sae40 oil ( 15w40, 10w40, 5w40)
And new standard is now sae30 ( 5w30, other grades are for use in agricultural equipement
We are getting some 5w20 and 0w20 [censored] ( ACEA of course)......but that is mainly intended for use in hybrids....
I dont belive that thinner oils will go along with our downsized turbo engines....no way that they will work in long term
So the EU is moving from the early 'seventies straight into the early 'nineties?
Who would have thought that the Eurocrats could move that far in only a few decades, since we're now in 2016 and the rest of the developed world has already gone beyond?
Europe has been slow in realizing the benefits of lower viscosity oils just as it has been in recognizing the benefits of many technical advancements in the rest of the developed world.
Good to know that you're catching up.
Originally Posted By: alcyon
I noticed that modern cars are able to keep to lower revs for a given speed compared to low capacity engine (1.3L) cars from the 70s and 80s. Since these new engines only spin about 2000 to 2500rpm at highway speeds, 20wts will do fine since the bulk oil temp probably doesn't go beyond 90 C.
Contrast that to my 1980s econobox, during the night, I can keep bulk oil temps at not more than 90 C driving home from work, at 2500 rpm at a speed of 80km/h. If I drive to work in the mornings, at same speed and RPM that temp goes to 92C. Increase the rpm to 3000 and it stays at 96C. Go to 3500 rpm (120km/h) it goes to 106 C.
I see these modern econoboxes do 120km/h at less than 3000rpm.
Currently I use 5W-40 or 10W-40 oil. I think I can get away with an ILSAC GF-5 10W-30 or 5W-30 if I had a thermostatic oil cooler that forces the oil temp down at least 5 C - 10 C at such rpm.
a strong runner-up is engine design. I tend to think of Malaysia as tropical and hot versus temperate climate. I used 5w-20 MC in same said cimate year around so sometimes the engine design can facilitate using thinner gradient level.
I noticed that modern cars are able to keep to lower revs for a given speed compared to low capacity engine (1.3L) cars from the 70s and 80s. Since these new engines only spin about 2000 to 2500rpm at highway speeds, 20wts will do fine since the bulk oil temp probably doesn't go beyond 90 C.
Contrast that to my 1980s econobox, during the night, I can keep bulk oil temps at not more than 90 C driving home from work, at 2500 rpm at a speed of 80km/h. If I drive to work in the mornings, at same speed and RPM that temp goes to 92C. Increase the rpm to 3000 and it stays at 96C. Go to 3500 rpm (120km/h) it goes to 106 C.
I see these modern econoboxes do 120km/h at less than 3000rpm.
Currently I use 5W-40 or 10W-40 oil. I think I can get away with an ILSAC GF-5 10W-30 or 5W-30 if I had a thermostatic oil cooler that forces the oil temp down at least 5 C - 10 C at such rpm.
a strong runner-up is engine design. I tend to think of Malaysia as tropical and hot versus temperate climate. I used 5w-20 MC in same said cimate year around so sometimes the engine design can facilitate using thinner gradient level.
Originally Posted By: alcyon
Contrast that to my 1980s econobox, during the night, I can keep bulk oil temps at not more than 90 C driving home from work, at 2500 rpm at a speed of 80km/h. If I drive to work in the mornings, at same speed and RPM that temp goes to 92C. Increase the rpm to 3000 and it stays at 96C. Go to 3500 rpm (120km/h) it goes to 106 C.
I see these modern econoboxes do 120km/h at less than 3000rpm.
Currently I use 5W-40 or 10W-40 oil. I think I can get away with an ILSAC GF-5 10W-30 or 5W-30 if I had a thermostatic oil cooler that forces the oil temp down at least 5 C - 10 C at such rpm.
Engine oil temperature increases with higher engine RPM, oil temp is hottest at redline for long period such as on German Autobahn or on a track.
Contrast that to my 1980s econobox, during the night, I can keep bulk oil temps at not more than 90 C driving home from work, at 2500 rpm at a speed of 80km/h. If I drive to work in the mornings, at same speed and RPM that temp goes to 92C. Increase the rpm to 3000 and it stays at 96C. Go to 3500 rpm (120km/h) it goes to 106 C.
I see these modern econoboxes do 120km/h at less than 3000rpm.
Currently I use 5W-40 or 10W-40 oil. I think I can get away with an ILSAC GF-5 10W-30 or 5W-30 if I had a thermostatic oil cooler that forces the oil temp down at least 5 C - 10 C at such rpm.
Engine oil temperature increases with higher engine RPM, oil temp is hottest at redline for long period such as on German Autobahn or on a track.
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